Donald Trump rated last by researchers

[Derec]

No, just that and only that. There is no other reason to have US Muslims dance in Jersey City at Trump's death. Not even a cursory google search could provide any other context.

Oh that little thing. Trump obviously mixed up the small (and not televised) groups of Muslims in the US celebrating 9/11 and the televised instances of Muslims celebrating it in places like Gaza or East Jerusalem.

[the video is hosted on Facebook, but I found it through a Google search, not my "facebook[sic] feed"]
Still does not explain why you are singling out Muslims to rejoice at the death of Trump in my opinion.

And just for the record, most Muslims I've worked with, met socially, even been neighbours with have been pretty chill. But I understand and respect that whatever outrage of the week pops into your facebook feed is far more factual and far more representative. You just seem to have that vibe.

Unlike you, I am aware of things and people I do not know or experience personally. And not through my "facebook[sic] feed" either, which I barely use. But the efforts to "abandon Biden" over Gaza by Michigan Muslims have been widely reported. And WSJ has written about pro-Hamas, pro-Jihad elements among them, esp. in Dearborn.
Welcome to Dearborn, America’s Jihad Capital
The article itself is behind a paywall, but here are some excerpts:

Thousands march in support of Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. Protesters, many with kaffiyehs covering their faces, shout “Intifada, intifada,” “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,” and “America is a terrorist state.” Local imams give fiery antisemitic sermons. This isn’t the Middle East. It’s the Detroit suburb of Dearborn, Mich.
[...]
At another rally, held Oct. 14 in front of the Henry Ford Centennial Library, Imam Usama Abdulghani also didn’t hide his support for Hamas’s terrorist actions. The American-born, Iranian-educated Shiite Islamic scholar called Oct. 7 “one of the days of God” and a “miracle come true.” He described the attackers as “honorable.” He said they were “lions” defending “the entire nation of Muhammad the messenger.”
Local enthusiasm for jihad against Israel and the West extends beyond celebration of Hamas. The Islamic Center of America, a leading Dearborn mosque, held a memorial service on Dec. 30 for a Hezbollah operative killed in an Israeli airstrike. The Hadi Institute, which runs an Islamic Montessori school and bills itself as a youth community center, held a “Commemoration of the Martyrs” on Jan. 5. This event honored Quds Force Commander Qassem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi Al-Muhandis, leader of the Iran-backed Popular Mobilization Forces in Iraq. Both men were on the U.S. list of designated terrorists when they were killed in a U.S. airstrike on Jan. 3, 2020.
[...]
Ahmad Musa Jibril is perhaps the most influential English-speaking jihadi sheikh. From his home in Dearborn he promotes holy war to his tens of thousands of followers on Twitter and Telegram. On Oct. 7, the day Hamas slaughtered 1,200 Israelis and took almost 200 hostage, a Twitter account bearing his name retweeted a post that said, “The hearts haven’t been overjoyed like this in so long.” This account also posted a tweet imploring Allah to “purify the land from the aggression of the apes, swines, and hypocrites.” He later recorded a video calling on Muslims in the West to start normalizing the term “jihad” by using it frequently “on your social media, and in the mosques.” He has called President Biden a “senile pharaoh.”

American liberals need to seriously rethink their continued infatuation with Islam.

 

[Patooka]

Unlike you, I am aware of things and people I do not know or experience personally.

And yet you still view Islam as not even a homogenous religion, but a homogenous society. Huh. That's weird. To speak your language, most muzrats are slopes in case you missed it.

Good job apologising for Trump by the way.

 

[laughing dog]

I think an accurate and nonpartisan historical judgment of a Presidency requires much more elapsed time than 4 years.

 

[ZiprHead]

American liberals need to seriously rethink their continued infatuation with Islam.

Frankly, you're the only one here who seems to be infatuated with Islam.

And the title of the article you posted "Welcome to Dearborn, America’s Jihad Capital" tells me the article is quite biased already.

 

[Patooka]

I think an accurate and nonpartisan historical judgment of a Presidency requires much more elapsed time than 4 years.

And sometimes you know a cunt when you see them. The damage they do, the hurt they create can't be measured at the time like you said. But that doesn't disqualify the initial, "this guy's fucked" assessment.

*waiting in anticipation at TSwizzle's Daily Mail link that provides the "gotchya" moment when it comes to Brandon with regards to "this guy's fucked"*

 

[Patooka]

American liberals need to seriously rethink their continued infatuation with Islam.

Frankly, you're the only one here who seems to be infatuated with Islam.

And the title of the article you posted "Welcome to Dearborn, America’s Jihad Capital" tells me the article is quite biased already.

Yeah, but clearly that article is more accurate than you know, actually talking to some real life moozlumz.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Personally, I would prefer to be fundraising to subsidize travel for any American Muslim to dance in the streets of jersey City when that glorious day happens.

Why American Muslims in particular? Other than the leftist islamophilia, of course.

And besides, American Muslims seem to be hating the other guy more these days.


Muslims are not friends of Democrats or of liberals more generally.

In Alabama, IVF has virtually been eliminated by Christian judges and politicians. A Christian Judge in Texas might have laid the ground for eliminating medicinal abortions in the United States. Christian judges and politicians are forcing rape victims in some states to go on a short vacation so they don't have a rapist's baby.

Liberals don't shit themselves over Islam, because Christian Nationalists have been the greatest threat to our actual lives and rights for the last 200 years and currently the trajectory of that threat is rising.

 

[laughing dog]

Personally, I would prefer to be fundraising to subsidize travel for any American Muslim to dance in the streets of jersey City when that glorious day happens.

Why American Muslims in particular? Other than the leftist islamophilia, of course.

And besides, American Muslims seem to be hating the other guy more these days.


Muslims are not friends of Democrats or of liberals more generally.

In Alabama, IVF has virtually been eliminated by Christian judges and politicians. A Christian Judge in Texas might have laid the ground for eliminating medicinal abortions in the United States. Christian judges and politicians are forcing rape victims in some states to go on a short vacation so they don't have a rapist's baby.

Liberals don't shit themselves over Islam, because Christian Nationalists have been the greatest threat to our actual lives and rights for the last 200 years and currently the trajectory of that threat is rising.

Yeah but we are a Christian nation - it is our heritage!!!!!! Just ask Thomas Jefferson!!

Plus Muslims are strange - they tend to have brown skin and talk funny.

 

[Derec]

Yeah but we are a Christian nation - it is our heritage!!!!!! Just ask Thomas Jefferson!!

Strawman plus, yet again, an abject failure of reading comprehension, since I never wrote anything of kind.

Plus Muslims are strange - they tend to have brown skin and talk funny.

Islam is a religion - a set of beliefs and practices, and yes, many of those are strange.
It is not a race or skin tone. There are Muslims of all hues. This guy is Muslim and whiter than sour cream.

 

[Derec]

In Alabama, IVF has virtually been eliminated by Christian judges and politicians. A Christian Judge in Texas might have laid the ground for eliminating medicinal abortions in the United States.

This is actually a textbook example of the whataboutism fallacy. Even though nobody here has defended these decisions, you are bringing up Christians just to divert attention from Muslims and Islam.

Christian judges and politicians are forcing rape victims in some states to go on a short vacation so they don't have a rapist's baby

As bad as that is, things are far, far worse where Islamists are in power. Like in Gaza.
Hamas bans women from riding motorbikes
Women need male guardian to travel, says Hamas court in Gaza Strip

Liberals don't shit themselves over Islam, because Christian Nationalists have been the greatest threat to our actual lives and rights for the last 200 years and currently the trajectory of that threat is rising.

Contemporary Islam is far worse than contemporary Christianity.
Do you really think human rights, including for women, are more threatened in Alabama than in Afghanistan? In Texas than in Tehran?

I really do not get Patooka's simping for Islam, nor your and others' defense of it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In Alabama, IVF has virtually been eliminated by Christian judges and politicians. A Christian Judge in Texas might have laid the ground for eliminating medicinal abortions in the United States.

This is actually a textbook example of the whataboutism fallacy.

No it isn't. It is addressing ACTUAL HARM. I'm currently unaware of any legislation on the books or judicial over reach from people with the idea of washing America with the greatness of Islam in mind.

Women in several states can not get an abortion. That ain't Muslims.

Even though nobody here has defended these decisions, you are bringing up Christians just to divert attention from Muslims and Islam.

It is irrelevant to my daily life. That you choose to fear a movement that has negligible influence on our politics, rule of law, or generalized standard of living, or any impact at all (?) is your choice. I have enough things I need to worry about as is, I don't need to be grabbing my lance and going after windmills.

Christian judges and politicians are forcing rape victims in some states to go on a short vacation so they don't have a rapist's baby

As bad as that is, things are far, far worse where Islamists are in power. Like in Gaza.

WE DON'T LIVE IN GAZA! We are supposed to have a system of governance that insulates us from such madness. This is a thread on Trump and his ranking on a list compiled by Historians, not religious freedom in the Middle East.

Liberals don't shit themselves over Islam, because Christian Nationalists have been the greatest threat to our actual lives and rights for the last 200 years and currently the trajectory of that threat is rising.

Contemporary Islam is far worse than contemporary Christianity.

Radical Islam is crap. As far as contemporary Islam, what do you actually know about it? Yeah, there are nations run by Muslims that want to kill gays, keep women illiterate.

But you seem to want to broad-brush them all together.

Do you really think human rights, including for women, are more threatened in Alabama than in Afghanistan? In Texas than in Tehran?

No. Not remotely. But I live in a country that sets a higher bar. A bar that is being lowered, by Christian Nationalists, the people I have to worry about. People in Iran need to worry about the whackos their nation.

I really do not get Patooka's simping for Islam, nor your and others' defense of it.

Well, that is because you don't seem to care to actually listen to people's position on this stuff, so I can understand why you find it so challenging to understand it.

 

[lpetrich]

I don't think we needed to do research to realize that Trump was the worst president ever.

The worst one over our lifetimes, certainly, but competing with Warren Harding, Andrew Johnson, and James Buchanan is very difficult.

 Cyclical theory (United States history)

Where the Presidents are in the Schlesinger cycle:

• Revolution & Constitution - Lib - CrdPas
• Hamilton Era - Con - 1 - G Washington ? 0.961 - J Adams ? 0.692
• Jefferson Era - Lib - 1 - T Jefferson R 0.907 - J Madison A 0.667
• Era of Good Feelings - Con - 1 - J Monroe A 0.650 - JQ Adams D 0.571
• Jackson Era - Lib - CrdPas - 2 - A Jackson R 0.750 - M Van Buren A 0.439
• Slaveowner Dominance - Con - 2 (3) - WH Harrison P 0.116 - J Tyler P 0.163 - JK Polk A 0.711 - Z Taylor P 0.233 - M Fillmore P 0.143 - F Pierce D 0.071 - J Buchanan D 0.023
• Civil War & Reconstruction - Lib - Race - 3 - A Lincoln R 1.000 - A Johnson P 0.045
• Gilded Age - Con - 3 (4) - US Grant A 0.200 - RB Hayes A 0.375 - JA Garfield A 0.341 - CA Arthur A 0.325 - G Cleveland P 0.548 - B Harrison A 0.279 - W McKinley A(R?) 0.575
• Progressive Era - Lib - CrdPas - 4 - T Roosevelt A(R?) 0.925 - WH Taft A 0.500 - W Wilson P 0.842
• Roaring Twenties - Con - 4 - W Harding A 0.039 - C Coolidge A 0.382 - H Hoover D 0.231
• New Deal - Lib - 5 - FD Roosevelt R 0.971 - H Truman A 0.848
• Fifties Era - Con - 5 - DD Eisenhower P 0.800 - JF Kennedy A 0.762
• Sixties Era - Lib - CrdPas - Race - 5 (6) - LB Johnson A 0.725 - R Nixon P 0.302 - G Ford P 0.371 - J Carter D 0.41
• Gilded Age II - Con - (5) 6 - R Reagan R 0.721 - GHW Bush A 0.53 - B Clinton P 0.625 - GW Bush A 0.247 - B Obama P 0.755 - D Trump ? 0.045 - J Biden ? 0.648

Period, Type (liberal, conservative), Creedal-passion period? Race-relations upheaval period? Party system, Presidents with Stephen Skowronek's political-time position and my averaged ratings (1 = best, 0 = worst).

 

[lpetrich]

Schlesinger liberal vs. conservative periods:

• Liberal - Conservative
• Wrongs of the Many - Rights of the Few
• Increase Democracy - Contain Democracy
• Public Purpose - Private Interest
• Human Rights - Property Rights

Creedal passion? According to historian Samuel P. Huntington, "In terms of American beliefs, government is supposed to be egalitarian, participatory, open, noncoercive, and responsive to the demands of individuals and groups. Yet no government can be all these things and still remain a government."

Every so often in US history, there is a big effort to make government act according to these ideals.

Party systems? The US has always had two major parties, each with characteristic platforms and constituencies, and every now and then the parties get shaken up, creating new party systems.

Skowronek political time? The US has gone through several political eras, each with a dominant party and an opposition one.

• Reconstructing - dominant party: weak, President's party: opposition - starts a new era
• Articulating - dominant party: strong, President's party: dominant - expands on the dominant paradigm
• Preemptive - dominant party: strong, President's party: opposition - challenges the dominant paradigm, working within it
• Disjunctive - dominant party: weak, President's party: dominant - the President is a loner, detached from his party, considered ineffective, and serving only one term

 

[lpetrich]

Two of our most beloved Presidents, Abe Lincoln and FDR, started Schlesinger liberal periods, party systems, and Skowronek eras. Four other good Presidents did at least some of these: Andrew Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt: all three, LBJ: liberal period, continuing existing Skowronek era, Ronald Reagan: party system, Skowronek era.

The only problematic liberal period to me is the Jefferson Era, and that's because I don't know why it might qualify as one.

Turning to conservative periods, one of our most beloved Presidents, George Washington, started one, the Hamilton Era. But he was basically an Eisenhower-like war hero, and Eisenhower himself was the President in most of another conservative period, the Fifties Era. The Era of Good Feelings was another conservative period with better-than-average Presidents, but the Roaring Twenties had some worse-than-average ones and a total clunker (Warren Harding), the Gilded Age had mostly worse-than-average Presidents, and the Slaveowner-Dominance Era had very bad Presidents except for James Polk.

 

[laughing dog]

Yeah but we are a Christian nation - it is our heritage!!!!!! Just ask Thomas Jefferson!!

Strawman plus, yet again, an abject failure of reading comprehension, since I never wrote anything of kind.

Plus Muslims are strange - they tend to have brown skin and talk funny.

Islam is a religion - a set of beliefs and practices, and yes, many of those are strange.
It is not a race or skin tone. There are Muslims of all hues. This guy is Muslim and whiter than sour cream.

Not everything is about you. Then again, you are not fooling anyone.

 

[lpetrich]

Some of the liberal periods have had bad Presidents, notably Andrew Johnson in the Civil War Era and Richard Nixon in the Sixties Era. These were Presidents who tried to counter some of the trends in those eras, it must be noted. Gerald Ford, another Sixties one, was, however, totally undistinguished, a nobody, and Jimmy Carter, another one, seemed out of his depth.

BTW, Samuel Huntington called the Sixties Era the Sixties & Seventies Era or the S&S Era -- early 60's to mid 70's.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Ugh, I hate the 'Jimmy Carter was out of his depth' hot take. He was not. He was the first president in modern times to experience the waxing shitstorm that the GQP has fully become. He was stymied by the republican congress repeatedly and continuously, moreso than any president prior, but not since. He was in office during the rise of the religious right, who then installed ronnie raygun and really started to fuck things up.

Carter was, in reality, one of the best presidents we had.

 

[TomC]

Ugh, I hate the 'Jimmy Carter was out of his depth' hot take. He was not. He was the first president in modern times to experience the waxing shitstorm that the GQP has fully become. He was stymied by the republican congress repeatedly and continuously, moreso than any president prior, but not since. He was in office during the rise of the religious right, who then installed ronnie raygun and really started to fuck things up.

Carter was, in reality, one of the best presidents we had.

My first presidential vote, when I was old enough to vote, was in 1980ce.
I voted for Reagan because I thought Carter was too weak to be a good president.

Boy, have I learned a lot since then. Carter was excellent, I just didn't know enough to recognize it.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I just want to know where to get flagpole extenders -- adjustable tops for existing flagpoles -- so that the flag can be elevated another 10 or 15 feet on the day they announce that Trump's made it to hell at last.

How will we know?

We can know the day his voyage starts but is there any indication of how long it takes? He's certainly not going to be able to pay Charon.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

I just want to know where to get flagpole extenders -- adjustable tops for existing flagpoles -- so that the flag can be elevated another 10 or 15 feet on the day they announce that Trump's made it to hell at last.

How will we know?

We can know the day his voyage starts but is there any indication of how long it takes? He's certainly not going to be able to pay Charon.

Oh, he’s getting shoved into one of those canisters like they use at the bank drive-through, and he’s getting sucked straight into the last circle of hell.