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MAGA Christianity hits Las Vegas

The OP'er was being "ironic". The American, likely Christian, did something, on its face, but not necessarily true, nefarious. The anti-Christian boners didn't start rising immediately. The whole "religion of peace" shit that happens anytime some Muslim acts badly gets pretty old as most Muslims, like most Christians, and any true Atheist ;) don't commit violent acts.

Yup.

Just to add--no one is going to report the guy was Christian. Imagine the NYT writing "Hey look, a Christian did this!" Almost all crimes in the US are committed by Christians.
So the only evidence of your claim that the man is a Christian, is that there is no evidence to validate your claim?
The default position for Americans is Christian. If they don't say that a person is Muslim or some other non-Christian affiliation, then it is highly likely that they are Christian. Also, he was a Trumpist, so that is another data point that probably a nominal Christian (of course Trump himself is faking at being a Christian). If they continue to not give him a religious affiliation then that is further strong evidence for the inference that he is a Christian. Similarly, if they don't draw specific attention to a person's race/colour and gender then they are likely to be white and a male.
 
The OP'er was being "ironic". The American, likely Christian, did something, on its face, but not necessarily true, nefarious. The anti-Christian boners didn't start rising immediately. The whole "religion of peace" shit that happens anytime some Muslim acts badly gets pretty old as most Muslims, like most Christians, and any true Atheist ;) don't commit violent acts.

Yup.

Just to add--no one is going to report the guy was Christian. Imagine the NYT writing "Hey look, a Christian did this!" Almost all crimes in the US are committed by Christians.
So the only evidence of your claim that the man is a Christian, is that there is no evidence to validate your claim?
The default position for Americans is Christian. If they don't say that a person is Muslim or some other non-Christian affiliation, then it is highly likely that they are Christian. Also, he was a Trumpist, so that is another data point that probably a nominal Christian (of course Trump himself is faking at being a Christian). If they continue to not give him a religious affiliation then that is further strong evidence for the inference that he is a Christian. Similarly, if they don't draw specific attention to a person's race/colour and gender then they are likely to be white and a male.
So, your evidence that the man was Christian is, likewise, that you can present no evidence that the man was Christian.
 
So, your evidence that the man was Christian is, likewise, that you can present no evidence that the man was Christian.

I think you are confusing or maybe conflating inference and evidence. His family background is Christian and he behaves like a Christian in many indicative ways and has been called a patriot by the family. Now if he had converted to Islam, Satanism or atheism, the newspapers would report such, i.e. A ==> B. We do not observe B. So we conclude not A, i.e. not an atheist, Satanist or Muslim. So all statistical inferences, all behavioral inferences, and logical inferences point to him being a Christian. Whether or not you want to classify those inferences and associated data semantically as "evidence" is something you are free to do or not do.
 
I don't think one should engage in religious bigotry at all, let alone on the basis of inference alone. Trying to take advantage of a recently committed terrorist act to fan the flames of one's own preferred brand of hatred toward some outgroup - whether or not the accusation even applies to the situation at hand - is the act of either a charlatan, a barbarian, or both. So, which are you?
 
Is it religious bigotry to despise all religions equally?
 
Is it religious bigotry to despise all religions equally?
No. Blaming all members of a religion for crime of an individual, more because of the hatred one already has for that faith than because of anything that person did or believed, is bigotry.

You'd recognize it easily if it was anti-Semitism, right? If someone started a thread tomorrow that read "Jewish man caught red-handed commiting savings fraud, thousands of Americans put out of their homes", would your first thought be "Gee, I bet that newspaper editor despises all ethnicities equally"?
 
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How does the OP "MAGA Christianity hits Las Vegas" relate to the linked article? I did not see Christianity mentioned once in the article itself (I think).


Why would anyone have an expectation that the media would point out that he was Christian? If he were Muslim or atheist, you can bet as soon as they found that out, it'd be reported. Even if they suspected it, some would report it. Some things are so obvious, so institutionalized that they are part of the fabric of society and invisible except to all those who take a good, critical, detached look around.
Or you decided to create click bait? Making a strawman means it is always a strawman.
 
This isn't evidence of anything--not guilt by association, but I had to share this picture from his father's facebook profile.

View attachment 49019
Despite saying no guilt by asscoiation you just had to show that picture. Implying guilt by association.
The father has a picture of Trump with a lion, flag, helicopter, but no Christian imagery or symbolism I notice => son is like that.
 
Perhaps he was NRP or unaffiliated or since we have to slap a label on absolutely everything, a "Nones". 29% publicly identify as not giving a rat's ass one way or the other, up from 16% in 2007. 63% identify as Christian, down from 78% in 2007.[1] Now, if we're lobbing assumptions, allow me to take a shot: Some portion of that 63% also have no religious preference. Some of that 63% respond with "Christian" because they feel that is the answer they are suppose to give or they carry the Christian label like it's an insurance policy and saying "unaffiliated" out loud will earn them Pearly Gates demerits. To support my assumption I would submit that only 30% of folks attend church regularly.[2]

[1] Info from Pew Research 2007 through 2021 and is US specific.
[2] Info from Gallup and again, is US specific. 30% is defined as every week or almost every week and are 2021-2023 averages.

Given all the combat, killing he's done and friends he watched die still in his head, I'm edging toward, he didn't have much time for religion.
 
... is the act of either a charlatan, a barbarian, or both. So, which are you?

That's a false dichotomy. I am neither a charlatan nor a barbarian. I just like to point out ironic things that ought to be obvious. You are aware of the irony here, are you not? I mean, it is obvious isn't it?
 
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I'm sharing an article that gives a more rational explanation, imo, about the man's problems. He likely had PTSD from his combat experience and last night they said on NBC news that he had been treated for depression several times during the last year.

https://wapo.st/3PiDFNk

The active-duty Green Beret who blew up a Tesla Cybertruck outside the Trump International Hotel in Las Vegas was likely suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and had written a note found on his charred phone stating that he hoped his actions would serve as a “wake-up call” to the American people, investigators revealed Friday.
Screenshots shared by the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department show Matthew Livelsberger had written several messages on his phone’s Notes app. In one, the decorated U.S. soldier said Americans would pay attention only to “spectacles and violence.” In another, Livelsberger said he needed to “relieve myself of the burden of the lives I took.”
The writings and new details about his time in the military and his actions in the days leading to the explosion paint a picture of a man haunted by his experiences overseas and closer to home. Investigators said they do not think he held any grievances against President-elect Donald Trump, and instead pointed to his deteriorating mental state to explain the explosion.


Traumatic brain injuries and post-traumatic stress are the signature wounds of the recent U.S. wars, and experts say repeated exposure to blasts big and small damage the neural pathways of the brain, eroding emotional regulation and profoundly damaging a person’s ability to cope with stress.
In severe cases, personalities are transformed. Struggles intensify. Lengthier combat stints elevate the threat of what the Pentagon calls “one of the invisible wounds of war.”
My late father suffered from severe combat related PTSD and while he never was suicidal, as far as I know, he suffered from severe depression and anxiety as well as guilt for killing Japanese soldiers during WWII, so I do have some experience living with a person who was the victim of participating in combat that had lead to severe PTSD. Sometimes he took his anger out on his children, especially my sister, who claimed he tried to strangle her once. I never witnessed that, but I do know he was very harsh towards her and apologized to her very late in his life. If it were not for the constant emotional support he received from my mother, he may have become suicidal, imo.

I don't believe the man who killed himself's actions had a thing to do with his religious beliefs or his political views for that matter, so I remain disappointed by the OP's assumptions that it did, when the evidence points to other problems. It seems more likely he was trying to show how fucked up our wars can make a person.
 
Seems a little weird that there are a lot attempts here at rationalizing the mislabeling the cybertruck bomber as a Christian, yet the New Orleans terrorist was mislabled as an illegal immigrant, and there seems to be no wiggle room for trying rationalize that lie. If we get facts wrong, can't we just step up and admit them?
 
I'm sharing an article that gives a more rational explanation, imo, about the man's problems. He likely had PTSD from his combat experience and last night they said on NBC news that he had been treated for depression several times during the last year.

https://wapo.st/3PiDFNk

The active-duty Green Beret who blew up a Tesla Cybertruck outside the Trump International Hotel in Las Vegas was likely suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and had written a note found on his charred phone stating that he hoped his actions would serve as a “wake-up call” to the American people, investigators revealed Friday.
Screenshots shared by the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department show Matthew Livelsberger had written several messages on his phone’s Notes app. In one, the decorated U.S. soldier said Americans would pay attention only to “spectacles and violence.” In another, Livelsberger said he needed to “relieve myself of the burden of the lives I took.”
The writings and new details about his time in the military and his actions in the days leading to the explosion paint a picture of a man haunted by his experiences overseas and closer to home. Investigators said they do not think he held any grievances against President-elect Donald Trump, and instead pointed to his deteriorating mental state to explain the explosion.


Traumatic brain injuries and post-traumatic stress are the signature wounds of the recent U.S. wars, and experts say repeated exposure to blasts big and small damage the neural pathways of the brain, eroding emotional regulation and profoundly damaging a person’s ability to cope with stress.
In severe cases, personalities are transformed. Struggles intensify. Lengthier combat stints elevate the threat of what the Pentagon calls “one of the invisible wounds of war.”
My late father suffered from severe combat related PTSD and while he never was suicidal, as far as I know, he suffered from severe depression and anxiety as well as guilt for killing Japanese soldiers during WWII, so I do have some experience living with a person who was the victim of participating in combat that had lead to severe PTSD. Sometimes he took his anger out on his children, especially my sister, who claimed he tried to strangle her once. I never witnessed that, but I do know he was very harsh towards her and apologized to her very late in his life. If it were not for the constant emotional support he received from my mother, he may have become suicidal, imo.

I don't believe the man who killed himself's actions had a thing to do with his religious beliefs or his political views for that matter, so I remain disappointed by the OP's assumptions that it did, when the evidence points to other problems. It seems more likely he was trying to show how fucked up our wars can make a person.
I don't think that the OP was really implying that it was important that this man be assumed to be Christian. It's more a case of reacting to the title of Derec's thread 'Truck of Peace hits New Orleans'.
Incidentally, a lot of those labelled Christians would be nominal Christians or cultural Christians, not deeply religious.
 
From Matthew Livelsberger himself:
“Consider this last sunset of ’24 and my actions the end of our sickness and a new chapter of health for our people,” he wrote, according to the records. “Rally around the Trump, Musk, Kennedy, and ride this wave to the highest hegemony for all Americans!”

Emphasis added.

He was expecting his actions to be a wave. He was expecting the fireworks to go off and be the star of the show, a display for attention including his suicide.
 
Seems a little weird that there are a lot attempts here at rationalizing the mislabeling the cybertruck bomber as a Christian, yet the New Orleans terrorist was mislabled as an illegal immigrant, and there seems to be no wiggle room for trying rationalize that lie. If we get facts wrong, can't we just step up and admit them?
I find the entire project of finding some outgroup to dubiously blame for the event to be shameful in the extreme. Bad things are already bad things, you don't have to add racism, classicism, or religious bigotry to make them more bad. Caring more about hurting the people you hate than about solving the problems you both share is an adolescent mindset, and it's gotten our country into a horrific mess.
 
From Matthew Livelsberger himself:
“Consider this last sunset of ’24 and my actions the end of our sickness and a new chapter of health for our people,” he wrote, according to the records. “Rally around the Trump, Musk, Kennedy, and ride this wave to the highest hegemony for all Americans!”

Emphasis added.

He was expecting his actions to be a wave. He was expecting the fireworks to go off and be the star of the show, a display for attention including his suicide.
I think this is very common, regardless what one's religious or political ideology might be. I was recently speaking to a friend about this very issue. People who do these horrible acts want attention. They want to be noticed, to be remembered etc. and that's the only way they seem to think they can get it. They are almost always suffering from depression or some other type of brain disorder and sadly we don't or can't give these people the help they need before they resort to these horrible crimes.

Most of the friends and neighbors of these recent attackers have said the people were kind, smart, thoughtful etc. Apparently, they hold in their feelings until shortly before they act. Sometimes they don't even hint what they are planning and I've read that 98% of them are male. Maybe we need to find a way to identify and help men who are suffering from these issues. Is it hormones, brain matter, or the environment and expectations placed on them, that make men more likely to be violent? There is a lot we don't know about the brain when it comes to why some people, mostly men, commit violent crimes.
I do wonder if neurologists are studying this issue. If not, it should be done.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/27/981803154/why-nearly-all-mass-shooters-are-men

The link gives some theories as to why men are more likely to commit these violent acts.
 
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