Family of Mexican national files claim, accuse police of murder 'execution style'

[Nice Squirrel]

How big of rocks are you talking about and how fast can they travel? I'm not sure, the NRA will probably correct me, but I think the hole created by bullets kill more easily than the impact.

More easily, yes. That doesn't mean a rock isn't potentially lethal.

Yes. Everything is potentially lethal. You were indicating that body armor would not protect against a rock thrown by a deranged man. Also, it takes a moment to "reload" and throw another rock and once the arm is out of rocks the thrower needs to collect more. Usually by bending down to the ground. This is when my school yard training says they are most vulnerable to flying tackles.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And so a pass in football is impossible because the receiver is in motion.

Interesting argument. It takes time for the football to get from the QB to the WR. A couple to a few seconds. So... the cops not trained to move out of the way of a deadly rock that takes time to reach them?

At what range was this? And the cops weren't the only targets--they can't expect the others caught up in it to dodge.

How big of rocks are you talking about and how fast can they travel? I'm not sure, the NRA will probably correct me, but I think the hole created by bullets kill more easily than the impact.

More easily, yes. That doesn't mean a rock isn't potentially lethal.

Your argument is potentially lethal as laughing dog could potentially piss himself so badly from laughter that a stream could reach the surge protector and electrocute himself. Should we send the cops to your place of posting to kill you just to be safe? Because that seems to be your argument... get a rock thrown at you... kill the fucker.

If someone is attacking you in a means that could be lethal you're allowed to use lethal force in self defense if that's what it takes to stop the attack. A civilian is normally expected to retreat if that's a safe option, a cop is not. Thus the cop's ability to run away doesn't mean they're expected to.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Interesting argument. It takes time for the football to get from the QB to the WR. A couple to a few seconds. So... the cops not trained to move out of the way of a deadly rock that takes time to reach them?

At what range was this? And the cops weren't the only targets--they can't expect the others caught up in it to dodge.

True, think of all the bystanders in the US that have been killed by rocks.

How big of rocks are you talking about and how fast can they travel? I'm not sure, the NRA will probably correct me, but I think the hole created by bullets kill more easily than the impact.

More easily, yes. That doesn't mean a rock isn't potentially lethal.

Your argument is potentially lethal as laughing dog could potentially piss himself so badly from laughter that a stream could reach the surge protector and electrocute himself. Should we send the cops to your place of posting to kill you just to be safe? Because that seems to be your argument... get a rock thrown at you... kill the fucker.

If someone is attacking you in a means that could be lethal you're allowed to use lethal force in self defense if that's what it takes to stop the attack. A civilian is normally expected to retreat if that's a safe option, a cop is not. Thus the cop's ability to run away doesn't mean they're expected to.

Loren's list of things Officers shouldn't be expected to know/deal with:

• subduing a person the officer weighs twice as much as... and has already technically subdued
• being able to judge whether a threat is actually (not potentially, but actually) lethal
• talk
• observe and think

Man, I hope Loren never opens a daycare.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Interesting argument. It takes time for the football to get from the QB to the WR. A couple to a few seconds. So... the cops not trained to move out of the way of a deadly rock that takes time to reach them?

At what range was this? And the cops weren't the only targets--they can't expect the others caught up in it to dodge.

My god, how fast was his throwing arm?

How big of rocks are you talking about and how fast can they travel? I'm not sure, the NRA will probably correct me, but I think the hole created by bullets kill more easily than the impact.

More easily, yes. That doesn't mean a rock isn't potentially lethal.

Your argument is potentially lethal as laughing dog could potentially piss himself so badly from laughter that a stream could reach the surge protector and electrocute himself. Should we send the cops to your place of posting to kill you just to be safe? Because that seems to be your argument... get a rock thrown at you... kill the fucker.

If someone is attacking you in a means that could be lethal you're allowed to use lethal force in self defense if that's what it takes to stop the attack. A civilian is normally expected to retreat if that's a safe option, a cop is not. Thus the cop's ability to run away doesn't mean they're expected to.

Considering the human bite can be lethal that just means cops can shoot anyone at will. And dentures can also be thrown and kill a cop so don't anyone get any ideas.

 

[dismal]

And so a pass in football is impossible because the receiver is in motion.

Of course, the receive is trying to get to the ball whereas, presumably, the officers would not be trying to get to the rocks.

It's amazing that they were able to subdue this guy when he had a hand directly on one of their pistols. But when he's just throwing rocks they all of a sudden can't manage.

The officers should probably be shot for being incompetent.

I dunno if someone is throwing rocks at vehicles it seems like the sort of thing we would want police to try to stop.

I can't really fault them for trying to get to the guy and subjecting themselves to rocks being thrown at them as a result.

Then of course you are dealing with a guy who is not only throwing rocks at vehicles but assaulting police officers and resisting arrest. Seems like you don't just walk away from that. You try to bring the guy in.

Now I'm no expert in how many rocks a person is entitled to throw at a policeman before he gets shot, so the shooting may not be justified, but I personally intend to keep my rocks thrown at police count as low as possible. I think you are entitled to throw fewer rocks at police than you might think.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Of course, the receive is trying to get to the ball whereas, presumably, the officers would not be trying to get to the rocks.

It's amazing that they were able to subdue this guy when he had a hand directly on one of their pistols. But when he's just throwing rocks they all of a sudden can't manage.

The officers should probably be shot for being incompetent.

I dunno if someone is throwing rocks at vehicles it seems like the sort of thing we would want police to try to stop with lethal force.

I can't really fault them for trying to get to the guy and subjecting themselves to rocks being thrown at them as a result with lethal force.

Then of course you are dealing with a guy who is not only throwing rocks at vehicles but assaulting police officers and resisting arrest. Seems like you don't just walk away from that. You try to bring the guy in with lethal force.

FIFLP

 

[laughing dog]

If someone is attacking you in a means that could be lethal you're allowed to use lethal force in self defense if that's what it takes to stop the attack. A civilian is normally expected to retreat if that's a safe option, a cop is not.

Says who?

Thus the cop's ability to run away doesn't mean they're expected to.

What are you blabbierng about here? No one is talking about the police running away. And whose expectations do you think you represent?

 

[credoconsolans]

Off topic, but most beat cops do wear concealable body armor.

Cops' armor is designed to spread the impact of a bullet so as to avoid penetration. Most of the energy comes through, though.

Since a rock isn't going to penetrate much in the first place the armor won't do much.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup. Stoning people to death. Sound familiar?

When stoning people to death, it is usually considered important to secure them in-place first, as failure to do so may result in their running away, or at the very least, dodging the incoming stones.

I'm afraid that I shall have to take you off my list of potential supervisors for judicial stonings when I become world dictator.

But a strike to the head can kill whether the target is restrained or not. It's just much easier to get that hit if the target can't do anything about it.

Exactly. It only takes one well aimed rock.

I have a scar on my forehead from my childhood. I was arguing with a sibling and she picked up a rock and just threw it at me. She wasn't a baseball pitcher or anyone trained in a sport. She was just an angry little girl. The rock hit me right between the eyes.

Don't remember much after that as I was down for the count.

And that was just a little girl and one rock.

 

[bilby]

Cops' armor is designed to spread the impact of a bullet so as to avoid penetration. Most of the energy comes through, though.

Since a rock isn't going to penetrate much in the first place the armor won't do much.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup. Stoning people to death. Sound familiar?

When stoning people to death, it is usually considered important to secure them in-place first, as failure to do so may result in their running away, or at the very least, dodging the incoming stones.

I'm afraid that I shall have to take you off my list of potential supervisors for judicial stonings when I become world dictator.

But a strike to the head can kill whether the target is restrained or not. It's just much easier to get that hit if the target can't do anything about it.

Exactly. It only takes one well aimed rock.

I have a scar on my forehead from my childhood. I was arguing with a sibling and she picked up a rock and just threw it at me. She wasn't a baseball pitcher or anyone trained in a sport. She was just an angry little girl. The rock hit me right between the eyes.

Don't remember much after that as I was down for the count.

And that was just a little girl and one rock.

Your anecdote has convinced me. We must immediately establish orbital nuclear weapons so that any person who picks up a rock without a licence can be immediately eradicated from the face of the planet with extreme prejudice.

Or possibly there is still absolutely no reason why a police officer needs to shoot someone who is armed with a rock, and the very idea that this might be an unavoidable response to having rocks thrown at the police is batshit crazy.

One of those.

 

[Nexus]

Haven't you pro-rock people ever heard of David vs Goliath?

 

[credoconsolans]

Cops' armor is designed to spread the impact of a bullet so as to avoid penetration. Most of the energy comes through, though.

Since a rock isn't going to penetrate much in the first place the armor won't do much.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup. Stoning people to death. Sound familiar?

When stoning people to death, it is usually considered important to secure them in-place first, as failure to do so may result in their running away, or at the very least, dodging the incoming stones.

I'm afraid that I shall have to take you off my list of potential supervisors for judicial stonings when I become world dictator.

But a strike to the head can kill whether the target is restrained or not. It's just much easier to get that hit if the target can't do anything about it.

Exactly. It only takes one well aimed rock.

I have a scar on my forehead from my childhood. I was arguing with a sibling and she picked up a rock and just threw it at me. She wasn't a baseball pitcher or anyone trained in a sport. She was just an angry little girl. The rock hit me right between the eyes.

Don't remember much after that as I was down for the count.

And that was just a little girl and one rock.

Your anecdote has convinced me. We must immediately establish orbital nuclear weapons so that any person who picks up a rock without a licence can be immediately eradicated from the face of the planet with extreme prejudice.

Or possibly there is still absolutely no reason why a police officer needs to shoot someone who is armed with a rock, and the very idea that this might be an unavoidable response to having rocks thrown at the police is batshit crazy.

One of those.

Which of course wasn't the point.

The point being throwing rocks at someone is inherently a dangerous act.

There are pictures of angry people in many cities over the years throwing rocks at police, at tanks, etc. They're not doing it as a joke.

 

[bilby]

Cops' armor is designed to spread the impact of a bullet so as to avoid penetration. Most of the energy comes through, though.

Since a rock isn't going to penetrate much in the first place the armor won't do much.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup. Stoning people to death. Sound familiar?

When stoning people to death, it is usually considered important to secure them in-place first, as failure to do so may result in their running away, or at the very least, dodging the incoming stones.

I'm afraid that I shall have to take you off my list of potential supervisors for judicial stonings when I become world dictator.

But a strike to the head can kill whether the target is restrained or not. It's just much easier to get that hit if the target can't do anything about it.

Exactly. It only takes one well aimed rock.

I have a scar on my forehead from my childhood. I was arguing with a sibling and she picked up a rock and just threw it at me. She wasn't a baseball pitcher or anyone trained in a sport. She was just an angry little girl. The rock hit me right between the eyes.

Don't remember much after that as I was down for the count.

And that was just a little girl and one rock.

Your anecdote has convinced me. We must immediately establish orbital nuclear weapons so that any person who picks up a rock without a licence can be immediately eradicated from the face of the planet with extreme prejudice.

Or possibly there is still absolutely no reason why a police officer needs to shoot someone who is armed with a rock, and the very idea that this might be an unavoidable response to having rocks thrown at the police is batshit crazy.

One of those.

Which of course wasn't the point.

The point being throwing rocks at someone is inherently a dangerous act.

There are pictures of angry people in many cities over the years throwing rocks at police, at tanks, etc. They're not doing it as a joke.

And it is not necessary to respond to them with lethal force - indeed on those occasions where lethal force is used as a response by the police, they are generally condemned for overreacting.

 

[laughing dog]

Which of course wasn't the point.

The point being throwing rocks at someone is inherently a dangerous act.

There are pictures of angry people in many cities over the years throwing rocks at police, at tanks, etc. They're not doing it as a joke.

If those pictures show the police shooting them to kill, you'd almost have a relevant point.

- - - Updated - - -

Cops' armor is designed to spread the impact of a bullet so as to avoid penetration. Most of the energy comes through, though.

Since a rock isn't going to penetrate much in the first place the armor won't do much.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup. Stoning people to death. Sound familiar?

When stoning people to death, it is usually considered important to secure them in-place first, as failure to do so may result in their running away, or at the very least, dodging the incoming stones.

I'm afraid that I shall have to take you off my list of potential supervisors for judicial stonings when I become world dictator.

But a strike to the head can kill whether the target is restrained or not. It's just much easier to get that hit if the target can't do anything about it.

Exactly. It only takes one well aimed rock.

I have a scar on my forehead from my childhood. I was arguing with a sibling and she picked up a rock and just threw it at me. She wasn't a baseball pitcher or anyone trained in a sport. She was just an angry little girl. The rock hit me right between the eyes.

Don't remember much after that as I was down for the count.

And that was just a little girl and one rock.

Since you didn't die, doesn't your anecdote indicate that rock throwing is not lethal?