“Reality Goes Beyond Physics,” and more

[bilby]

Or, as Forrest Gump said …

Life is like a box of chocolates. It doesn't last as long when you're fat.

 

[peacegirl]

Stop trying to make me look stupid. It’s a bunch of BS to think that due to not knowing whether a wave will collapse or remain a particle that this somehow translates to compatibilist free will. It’s too great of a stretch, or is it too hard for you to see? Thank goodness QM doesn’t rise to the macro level. I would never want the Pope to be Jeffrey Dahmer!

Once again, stop misrepresenting what I say. I said QM HAS NOTHING TO DO with the argument to compatibilism.

You were the one that said QM can work on a macro level in regard to human decision-making, or was I imagining this? I refuse to waste more of my time scrolling back.

 

[peacegirl]

QM HAS NOTHING TO DO with the argument to compatibilism.

That’s not why PG is on its case. It’s just that it violates determinism. Whether or not you use it to support compatibilism it’s still the enemy of PG’s beloved determinism, and as an arguably valid point supporting compatibilism, it earns full throated opposition.
Or, as Forrest Gump said …

You have no say in this because you admitted you don't need to read, so you have no idea what you are debating.

 

[bilby]

Stop trying to make me look stupid. It’s a bunch of BS to think that due to not knowing whether a wave will collapse or remain a particle that this somehow translates to compatibilist free will. It’s too great of a stretch, or is it too hard for you to see? Thank goodness QM doesn’t rise to the macro level. I would never want the Pope to be Jeffrey Dahmer!

Once again, stop misrepresenting what I say. I said QM HAS NOTHING TO DO with the argument to compatibilism.

You were the one that said QM can work on a macro level, or was I imagining this? I refuse to waste more of my time scrolling back.

I'm fairly sure that was Erwin Schrödinger.

Though as Werner Heisenberg would say, I cannot be certain.

 

[Elixir]

You were the one that said QM can work on a macro level, or was I imagining this?

I believe he pointed out (correctly) that quantum events can and do affect things at the macro level. If you disagree, you should probably at least make an attempt to rationalize your disagreement instead of arguing about what Pood said.*

* your stupid and fallacious dismissal of the obvious that I pointed out, notwithstanding.

 

[pood]

Stop trying to make me look stupid. It’s a bunch of BS to think that due to not knowing whether a wave will collapse or remain a particle that this somehow translates to compatibilist free will. It’s too great of a stretch, or is it too hard for you to see? Thank goodness QM doesn’t rise to the macro level. I would never want the Pope to be Jeffrey Dahmer!

Once again, stop misrepresenting what I say. I said QM HAS NOTHING TO DO with the argument to compatibilism.

You were the one that said QM can work on a macro level in regard to human decision-making, or was I imagining this? I refuse to waste more of my time scrolling back.

I said QM can scale up to include macro-level effects, such as radiation that causes mutations that drive evolution, and it has been tied to microtubules in the brain and plant photosynthesis. These are facts whether you like them or not, but are irrelevant to the compatibilist argument, which goes through with or without QM. Do you know how your computer must take into account quantum mechanics? Of course you don’t just as you remain blissfully unaware that the GPS in your cellphone rules out real-time seeing.

 

[pood]

Every time we conduct a two-slit experiment, we are seeing quantum indeterminism at work in the lab.

 

[Elixir]

Every time we conduct a two-slit experiment, we are seeing quantum indeterminism at work in the lab.

Good point. No unobtanium involved, just everyday ordinary matter and energy evidencing a QM effect upon everyday ordinary matter and energy.

 

[peacegirl]

Every time we conduct a two-slit experiment, we are seeing quantum indeterminism at work in the lab.

Good point. No unobtanium involved, just everyday ordinary matter and energy evidencing a QM effect upon everyday ordinary matter and energy

Way too simplified bilby! Our brains are not
indeterministic. QM does nothing to prove we could have done otherwise.

 

[steve_bank]

Peacegirl it is not just pood invoking QM.

A long running debate in both science and philosophy began from the start of QM as to whether the universe is fundamentally probabilistic or indeterminate versus deterministic.

It is not settled and there are multiple views and interventions of QM. QM as in actuality physical measurements and experiments, not abstract metaphysics.

If y0o want to dismiss Heisenberg and Bohr you really are ignorant, you may not even know who they were.

QM is a commojn well used theory used daily inn technology, for example designing and manufacturing the processor in your computer.

Copenhagen interpretation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have to agree with pood, you are crossing over to blatant ad moms to cover your ass and your ignorance.

When you say that this debate has is of no consequence, I’ve lost all interest in anything you have to say. Tootaloo!

The scientific debate is consequential. There is always the potential to lead to new science.

I suspect you may be in the middle of a late in life reality check. I could be wrong, I don't think any of here are exerts. It is that you are just not up to the usual level of debate around here. You get frustrated and angry. You lack the fundamentals needed to have a discussion.

There is a long history of people showing up telling us all we are wrong on something, eventually resorting to ad homs. and eventually getting banned. It is hard to get banned here, you have to really work at it, but it happens.

You are far from new to us. Kind of routine.

 

[Elixir]

Way too simplified bilby! Our brains are not
indeterministic

The very fact that you exist is indeterministic. And I’m not bilby.

You have presented nothing but stupidity and ignorance to argue against things you don’t understand, including GPS, QM and your own sorry excuse for a brain.

 

[peacegirl]

Peacegirl it is not just pood invoking QM.

A long running debate in both science and philosophy began from the start of QM as to whether the universe is fundamentally probabilistic or indeterminate versus deterministic.

It is not settled and there are multiple views and interventions of QM. QM as in actuality physical measurements and experiments, not abstract metaphysics.

If y0o want to dismiss Heisenberg and Bohr you really are ignorant, you may not even know who they were.

QM is a commojn well used theory used daily inn technology, for example designing and manufacturing the processor in your computer.

Copenhagen interpretation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have to agree with pood, you are crossing over to blatant ad moms to cover your ass and your ignorance.

When you say that this debate has is of no consequence, I’ve lost all interest in anything you have to say. Tootaloo!

The scientific debate is consequential. There is always the potential to lead to new science.

I suspect you may be in the middle of a late in life reality check. I could be wrong, I don't think any of here are exerts. It is that you are just not up to the usual level of debate around here. You get frustrated and angry. You lack the fundamentals needed to have a discussion.

There is a long history of people showing up telling us all we are wrong on something, eventually resorting to ad homs. and eventually getting banned. It is hard to get banned here, you have to really work at it, but it happens.

You are far from new to us. Kind of routine.

I’m frustrated, for good reason. I have said nothing mean or hurtful. Pood just wants to call me out on anything even slightly resembling an ad hom so he can get me blocked.

 

[pood]

Every time we conduct a two-slit experiment, we are seeing quantum indeterminism at work in the lab.

Good point. No unobtanium involved, just everyday ordinary matter and energy evidencing a QM effect upon everyday ordinary matter and energy

Way too simplified bilby! Our brains are not
indeterministic. QM does nothing to prove we could have done otherwise.

YET AGAIN, QM IS NOT BEING USED TO ARGUE FOR COMPATIBILISM. This has been explained to you many times, and I believe there is also a rule against misrepresenting the posts of others. Do this again and you will be reported for the third time today.

 

[pood]

Peacegirl it is not just pood invoking QM.

A long running debate in both science and philosophy began from the start of QM as to whether the universe is fundamentally probabilistic or indeterminate versus deterministic.

It is not settled and there are multiple views and interventions of QM. QM as in actuality physical measurements and experiments, not abstract metaphysics.

If y0o want to dismiss Heisenberg and Bohr you really are ignorant, you may not even know who they were.

QM is a commojn well used theory used daily inn technology, for example designing and manufacturing the processor in your computer.

Copenhagen interpretation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have to agree with pood, you are crossing over to blatant ad moms to cover your ass and your ignorance.

When you say that this debate has is of no consequence, I’ve lost all interest in anything you have to say. Tootaloo!

The scientific debate is consequential. There is always the potential to lead to new science.

I suspect you may be in the middle of a late in life reality check. I could be wrong, I don't think any of here are exerts. It is that you are just not up to the usual level of debate around here. You get frustrated and angry. You lack the fundamentals needed to have a discussion.

There is a long history of people showing up telling us all we are wrong on something, eventually resorting to ad homs. and eventually getting banned. It is hard to get banned here, you have to really work at it, but it happens.

You are far from new to us. Kind of routine.

I’m frustrated, for good reason. I have said nothing mean or hurtful. Pood just wants to call me out on anything even slightly resembling an ad hom so he can get me blocked.

No, you called me a liar TWICE, a clear rules violation, and you argue ad hom all the time. It is also a slur to say I am trying to get you blocked. I skipped over reporting numerous ad hom posts of yours, but that ends now.

 

[peacegirl]

Peacegirl it is not just pood invoking QM.

A long running debate in both science and philosophy began from the start of QM as to whether the universe is fundamentally probabilistic or indeterminate versus deterministic.

It is not settled and there are multiple views and interventions of QM. QM as in actuality physical measurements and experiments, not abstract metaphysics.

If y0o want to dismiss Heisenberg and Bohr you really are ignorant, you may not even know who they were.

QM is a commojn well used theory used daily inn technology, for example designing and manufacturing the processor in your computer.

Copenhagen interpretation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have to agree with pood, you are crossing over to blatant ad moms to cover your ass and your ignorance.

When you say that this debate has is of no consequence, I’ve lost all interest in anything you have to say. Tootaloo!

The scientific debate is consequential. There is always the potential to lead to new science.

I suspect you may be in the middle of a late in life reality check. I could be wrong, I don't think any of here are exerts. It is that you are just not up to the usual level of debate around here. You get frustrated and angry. You lack the fundamentals needed to have a discussion.

There is a long history of people showing up telling us all we are wrong on something, eventually resorting to ad homs. and eventually getting banned. It is hard to get banned here, you have to really work at it, but it happens.

You are far from new to us. Kind of routine.

I’m frustrated, for good reason. I have said nothing mean or hurtful. Pood just wants to call me out on anything even slightly resembling an ad hom so he can get me blocked.

No, you called me a liar TWICE, a clear rules violation, and you argue ad hom all the time. It is also a slur to say I am trying to get you blocked. I skipped over reporting numerous ad hom posts of yours, but that ends now.

And I will report you for falsely reporting me. I’ll have to find the post. You don’t scare me!

 

[Elixir]

I’m frustrated, for good reason.

That’s debatable (in another thread).

I have said nothing mean or hurtful.

Name calling aside, it’s more about your counterfactual assertions and inability to accept correction.
Quantum events DO have macro effects - even on your brain. (Whether or not effects on your brain are actually “macro” events might be debatable, for a couple of reasons, but you have not gone there yet )

 

[pood]

And I will report you for falsely reporting me. I’ll have to find the post. You don’t scare me!

Um, that’s posts, plural.

 

[Elixir]

And I will report you for falsely reporting me. I’ll have to find the post. You don’t scare me!

Um, that’s posts, plural.

PLURAL? POSTS?
Now THAT is scary!
(cue creepy music)

 

[peacegirl]

I’m frustrated, for good reason.

That’s debatable (in another thread).

I have said nothing mean or hurtful.

Name calling aside, it’s more about your counterfactual assertions and inability to accept correction.

What counterfactual assertions? I have not made any factual events that I'm countering.

Counterfactual reasoning means thinking about alternative possibilities for past or future events: what might happen/ have happened if…? In other words, you imagine the consequences of something that is contrary to what actually happened or will have happened ("counter to the facts").

Counterfactual - Definition and examples — Conceptually

What would happen if...

conceptually.org

Quantum events DO have macro effects - even on your brain. (Whether or not effects on your brain are actually “macro” events might be debatable, for a couple of reasons, but you have not gone there yet )

I've explained why we can only move in one direction. So, whether quantum events have macro effects or not, it doesn't change anything. QM has no effect on the mechanism of one's brain state which can only move in the direction of greater satisfaction from moment to moment and regardless of whether or not one is deliberating on two or more options. If you can prove that QM can cause a person to make a different choice than the one that was chosen --- with all of the antecedents in place --- I will concede. But you can't because it's impossible. You can only theorize that someone "could have chosen otherwise" and that's not proof. As far as other worlds, it will be the day that Jeffrey Dahmer becomes Pope. After all, anything is possible in Q.M.)

You were the one that said QM can work on a macro level, or was I imagining this?

I believe he pointed out (correctly) that quantum events can and do affect things at the macro level. If you disagree, you should probably at least make an attempt to rationalize your disagreement instead of arguing about what Pood said.*

* your stupid and fallacious dismissal of the obvious that I pointed out, notwithstanding.

Pood should apologize. I was right.

 

[pood]

I never said QM causes people to make choices. I have already reported two of your posts. If you keep misrepresenting what I said, I will report the misrepresentation. Final warning.