Climate Change(d)?

[steve_bank]

It has been a balmy 50f in Seattle.

Seattleites are wearing shorts. My winter coat is back in the closet and I am back to wearing a sweatshirt and a rain shell outside.

 

[Elixir]

Carbon is just the most obvious one. Regulators pretty much never destroy industries in favor of safer options.

Really? Who is still making or using CFCs in the USA?

And what happened to the safest energy source ever devised? Regulators have regulated it nearly to death in order to advantage less safe options.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The whole regulatory system has to a large degree been captured by the status quo.

… status quo meaning “oil and gas industry fatcats”.

I mean a lot more than just big carbon.

Who else then?

Carbon is just the most obvious one. Regulators pretty much never destroy industries in favor of safer options.

Really? Who is still making or using CFCs in the USA?

That's one product of an industry, not an industry. The plants are still there, just reconfigured a bit to make other things.

 

[Elixir]

That's one product of an industry, not an industry.

Nuclear energy is was an industry. Regulated virtually out of existence.

 

[TSwizzle]

Climate change has always been low on people's priorities;

In the final days of an election campaign dominated by migration, the likely new chancellor of Europe’s biggest polluter sought to assure voters that its economy ministry would not be occupied by NGOs. Instead, the conservative lead candidate Friedrich Merz posted on social media that it would be led by “someone who understands that economic policy is more than being a representative for heat pumps”. Climate action barely featured on the campaign trail before Germany’s federal elections on Sunday – except when right-leaning parties used it to swipe at the Greens. Merz’s jab was at the tamer end of attacks aimed at the Green party candidate, Robert Habeck, the economy and climate minister who pushed through an unpopular law to promote clean heating, but is a sign of how far the political conversation around climate action has shifted. Centre-right and far-right politicians have accused the Greens of turning Germany into an “eco-dictatorship” for policies that limit the burning of fossil fuels or require the public to change their behaviour. In a fiery speech the day before the election, Merz said he would do politics “for the majority who can think straight, and who also have all their marbles … and not for any green and leftwing nutcases”. Yet the result, which is likely to leave the Greens excluded from a future coalition, is further evidence that the green wave that swept Europe a few years ago was an outlier, rather than the new normal. Greens have been kicked out of government in Austria, Belgium and Ireland in recent months, echoing a recent trend of incumbents of all political stripes being punished at the polls.

Teh Grauniad

Good riddance.

It could get up to a catastrophic 72f today!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Climate change has always been low on people's priorities;

In the final days of an election campaign dominated by migration, the likely new chancellor of Europe’s biggest polluter sought to assure voters that its economy ministry would not be occupied by NGOs. Instead, the conservative lead candidate Friedrich Merz posted on social media that it would be led by “someone who understands that economic policy is more than being a representative for heat pumps”. Climate action barely featured on the campaign trail before Germany’s federal elections on Sunday – except when right-leaning parties used it to swipe at the Greens. Merz’s jab was at the tamer end of attacks aimed at the Green party candidate, Robert Habeck, the economy and climate minister who pushed through an unpopular law to promote clean heating, but is a sign of how far the political conversation around climate action has shifted. Centre-right and far-right politicians have accused the Greens of turning Germany into an “eco-dictatorship” for policies that limit the burning of fossil fuels or require the public to change their behaviour. In a fiery speech the day before the election, Merz said he would do politics “for the majority who can think straight, and who also have all their marbles … and not for any green and leftwing nutcases”. Yet the result, which is likely to leave the Greens excluded from a future coalition, is further evidence that the green wave that swept Europe a few years ago was an outlier, rather than the new normal. Greens have been kicked out of government in Austria, Belgium and Ireland in recent months, echoing a recent trend of incumbents of all political stripes being punished at the polls.

Teh Grauniad

Good riddance.

It could get up to a catastrophic 72f today!

I'm uncertain why you feel the need to repeatedly show you have no remote understanding on the subject, but you do continue to provide the average person's understanding of climate change. The average person also doesn't deduct enough money from their paycheck for their retirement either.

People not understanding the significance of something doesn't mean that the something isn't significant.

 

[steve_bank]

In our glutinous self indulgent culture of 24/7 instant gratification nothing much else matters.

The La fires have passed out of the news.

Baseball is starting and the NBA finals are coming. In a few months the NFL will be back in the news.

Pop culture glitz and reporting is as prominent as ever. Breaking news last night, the James Bond movie franchise has been taken over from the Broccoli family....

Not so much on climate change.

 

[TSwizzle]

Climate change has always been low on people's priorities;

In the final days of an election campaign dominated by migration, the likely new chancellor of Europe’s biggest polluter sought to assure voters that its economy ministry would not be occupied by NGOs. Instead, the conservative lead candidate Friedrich Merz posted on social media that it would be led by “someone who understands that economic policy is more than being a representative for heat pumps”. Climate action barely featured on the campaign trail before Germany’s federal elections on Sunday – except when right-leaning parties used it to swipe at the Greens. Merz’s jab was at the tamer end of attacks aimed at the Green party candidate, Robert Habeck, the economy and climate minister who pushed through an unpopular law to promote clean heating, but is a sign of how far the political conversation around climate action has shifted. Centre-right and far-right politicians have accused the Greens of turning Germany into an “eco-dictatorship” for policies that limit the burning of fossil fuels or require the public to change their behaviour. In a fiery speech the day before the election, Merz said he would do politics “for the majority who can think straight, and who also have all their marbles … and not for any green and leftwing nutcases”. Yet the result, which is likely to leave the Greens excluded from a future coalition, is further evidence that the green wave that swept Europe a few years ago was an outlier, rather than the new normal. Greens have been kicked out of government in Austria, Belgium and Ireland in recent months, echoing a recent trend of incumbents of all political stripes being punished at the polls.

Teh Grauniad

Good riddance.

It could get up to a catastrophic 72f today!

I'm uncertain why you feel the need to repeatedly show you have no remote understanding on the subject, but you do continue to provide the average person's understanding of climate change.

Says you.

What I do understand is that there is no coming climate apocalypse and that installing heat pumps, forcing people into buying electric vehicles and this obsession with net zero targets will not stop the climate changing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Climate change has always been low on people's priorities;

In the final days of an election campaign dominated by migration, the likely new chancellor of Europe’s biggest polluter sought to assure voters that its economy ministry would not be occupied by NGOs. Instead, the conservative lead candidate Friedrich Merz posted on social media that it would be led by “someone who understands that economic policy is more than being a representative for heat pumps”. Climate action barely featured on the campaign trail before Germany’s federal elections on Sunday – except when right-leaning parties used it to swipe at the Greens. Merz’s jab was at the tamer end of attacks aimed at the Green party candidate, Robert Habeck, the economy and climate minister who pushed through an unpopular law to promote clean heating, but is a sign of how far the political conversation around climate action has shifted. Centre-right and far-right politicians have accused the Greens of turning Germany into an “eco-dictatorship” for policies that limit the burning of fossil fuels or require the public to change their behaviour. In a fiery speech the day before the election, Merz said he would do politics “for the majority who can think straight, and who also have all their marbles … and not for any green and leftwing nutcases”. Yet the result, which is likely to leave the Greens excluded from a future coalition, is further evidence that the green wave that swept Europe a few years ago was an outlier, rather than the new normal. Greens have been kicked out of government in Austria, Belgium and Ireland in recent months, echoing a recent trend of incumbents of all political stripes being punished at the polls.

Teh Grauniad

Good riddance.

It could get up to a catastrophic 72f today!

I'm uncertain why you feel the need to repeatedly show you have no remote understanding on the subject, but you do continue to provide the average person's understanding of climate change.

Says you.

No, it'd be all your posts on the subject.

What I do understand is that there is no coming climate apocalypse and that installing heat pumps, forcing people into buying electric vehicles and this obsession with net zero targets will not stop the climate changing.

We understand you keep saying that. The problem here isn't that the climate changed... it is that the climate was predicted to change, because of the carbon increases in the atmosphere. We have observed these predicted changes. You want to handwave them as, I'm not certain as what. You refuse to speak of them. These predictions note the first couple of degrees wouldn't be all too noticeable, but that the increases on top of them will become a lot more impactful. We've seen building codes impacted. We've seen USDA Growth Zone mapping impacted.

Electric cars are probably not part of the solution, though viable hybrids could be. Heat pumps are very much part of the solution... once we have a nuclear grid.

 

[TSwizzle]

Climate change has always been low on people's priorities;

In the final days of an election campaign dominated by migration, the likely new chancellor of Europe’s biggest polluter sought to assure voters that its economy ministry would not be occupied by NGOs. Instead, the conservative lead candidate Friedrich Merz posted on social media that it would be led by “someone who understands that economic policy is more than being a representative for heat pumps”. Climate action barely featured on the campaign trail before Germany’s federal elections on Sunday – except when right-leaning parties used it to swipe at the Greens. Merz’s jab was at the tamer end of attacks aimed at the Green party candidate, Robert Habeck, the economy and climate minister who pushed through an unpopular law to promote clean heating, but is a sign of how far the political conversation around climate action has shifted. Centre-right and far-right politicians have accused the Greens of turning Germany into an “eco-dictatorship” for policies that limit the burning of fossil fuels or require the public to change their behaviour. In a fiery speech the day before the election, Merz said he would do politics “for the majority who can think straight, and who also have all their marbles … and not for any green and leftwing nutcases”. Yet the result, which is likely to leave the Greens excluded from a future coalition, is further evidence that the green wave that swept Europe a few years ago was an outlier, rather than the new normal. Greens have been kicked out of government in Austria, Belgium and Ireland in recent months, echoing a recent trend of incumbents of all political stripes being punished at the polls.

Teh Grauniad

Good riddance.

It could get up to a catastrophic 72f today!

I'm uncertain why you feel the need to repeatedly show you have no remote understanding on the subject, but you do continue to provide the average person's understanding of climate change.

Says you.

No, it'd be all your posts on the subject.

Nope, that's your projection.

What I do understand is that there is no coming climate apocalypse and that installing heat pumps, forcing people into buying electric vehicles and this obsession with net zero targets will not stop the climate changing.

We understand you keep saying that. The problem here isn't that the climate changed... it is that the climate was predicted to change, because of the carbon increases in the atmosphere. We have observed these predicted changes.

There has been no significant change to the climate. Only alarmists are claiming this.

You want to handwave them as, I'm not certain as what. You refuse to speak of them. These predictions note the first couple of degrees wouldn't be all too noticeable, but that the increases on top of them will become a lot more impactful. We've seen building codes impacted. We've seen USDA Growth Zone mapping impacted.

Yeah, we have been hearing this bullshit for 20+ years now.

Electric cars are probably not part of the solution, though viable hybrids could be. Heat pumps are very much part of the solution... once we have a nuclear grid.

 

[DBT]

Denial doesn't mean much.

 

[thebeave]

I wonder what will come first. A nuclear grid or a Mr. Fusion generator. I'm betting on the latter, especially in California.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm uncertain why you feel the need to repeatedly show you have no remote understanding on the subject, but you do continue to provide the average person's understanding of climate change.

Says you.

What I do understand is that there is no coming climate apocalypse and that installing heat pumps, forcing people into buying electric vehicles and this obsession with net zero targets will not stop the climate changing.

The worst case estimates for CO2 + methane hydrates would put the Earth into a position similar to what it was at one point long ago--a period from which there are almost no fossils. In other words, a period in which most of the Earth was inhospitable to things which make fossils. And so far we seem to be exceeding the worst case predictions. An apocalypse can't be ruled out. (On the other hand, the way things are going now we are probably going to do ourselves in before then.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There has been no significant change to the climate. Only alarmists are claiming this.

What you don't get is that it only takes a few degrees of shift in the average to have major effects.

And it turns out the 95F wet bulb that was considered the survival limit is flawed--the body's ability to sweat will saturate before that point, making the survival limit lower.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wonder what will come first. A nuclear grid or a Mr. Fusion generator. I'm betting on the latter, especially in California.

The latter can't exist unless you have high temperature superconductors. Otherwise you simply have nothing that can deliver that much power--your wires either melt or arc.

 

[thebeave]

I wonder what will come first. A nuclear grid or a Mr. Fusion generator. I'm betting on the latter, especially in California.

The latter can't exist unless you have high temperature superconductors. Otherwise you simply have nothing that can deliver that much power--your wires either melt or arc.

 

[Elixir]

I'm uncertain why you feel the need to repeatedly show you have no remote understanding on the subject, but you do continue to provide the average person's understanding of climate change.

Says you.

What I do understand is that there is no coming climate apocalypse and that installing heat pumps, forcing people into buying electric vehicles and this obsession with net zero targets will not stop the climate changing.

The worst case estimates for CO2 + methane hydrates would put the Earth into a position similar to what it was at one point long ago--a period from which there are almost no fossils. In other words, a period in which most of the Earth was inhospitable to things which make fossils. And so far we seem to be exceeding the worst case predictions. An apocalypse can't be ruled out. (On the other hand, the way things are going now we are probably going to do ourselves in before then.)

Don't freak out; when Yellowstone blows there will be plenty of global cooling* to let us burn more oil for a while.
Natural variation, y'know. Aren't we already overdue for a "Supervolcanoe" eruption somewhere? When was the last one... Toba?
Anything has to be easier than giving up burning gasoline and jet fuel!

*(Except in Santa Monica)

the way things are going now we are probably going to do ourselves in before then.)

That's the spirit! Why worry about climate or environment, when there are so many other, more existential threats to the survival of our species?

 

[Elixir]

I wonder what will come first. A nuclear grid or a Mr. Fusion generator. I'm betting on the latter, especially in California.

When everyone has a toaster sized fusion generator, the waste heat will warm the atmosphere so much we will have to pump oil to run our refrigerators to cool it off. I did the math.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm uncertain why you feel the need to repeatedly show you have no remote understanding on the subject, but you do continue to provide the average person's understanding of climate change.

Says you.

No, it'd be all your posts on the subject.

Nope, that's your projection.

What I do understand is that there is no coming climate apocalypse and that installing heat pumps, forcing people into buying electric vehicles and this obsession with net zero targets will not stop the climate changing.

We understand you keep saying that. The problem here isn't that the climate changed... it is that the climate was predicted to change, because of the carbon increases in the atmosphere. We have observed these predicted changes.

There has been no significant change to the climate. Only alarmists are claiming this.

You say that like the predication was "significant changes in the climate at 2 degrees Celsius increase". The prediction was x degrees for y years. At the point of 2 degree increase, they prediction was that the increase wouldn't be particularly noticeable on a major scale. There'd be signs, but not huge ones. So your repeated retort of well "we haven't noticed it" is 100% in line with what the predictions have been to this point. The problem really starts with the next couple of degrees.

You want to handwave them as, I'm not certain as what. You refuse to speak of them. These predictions note the first couple of degrees wouldn't be all too noticeable, but that the increases on top of them will become a lot more impactful. We've seen building codes impacted. We've seen USDA Growth Zone mapping impacted.

Yeah, we have been hearing this bullshit for 20+ years now.

Needing to redraw USDA growth zone mapping is very much a sign of climate change. Climate change that was predicted decades ago.

 

[thebeave]

I wonder what will come first. A nuclear grid or a Mr. Fusion generator. I'm betting on the latter, especially in California.

When everyone has a toaster sized fusion generator, the waste heat will warm the atmosphere so much we will have to pump oil to run our refrigerators to cool it off. I did the math.
View attachment 49536

Funny I don't see you participating in the mathematics thread.