Climate Change(d)?

[Elixir]

I wonder what will come first. A nuclear grid or a Mr. Fusion generator. I'm betting on the latter, especially in California.

When everyone has a toaster sized fusion generator, the waste heat will warm the atmosphere so much we will have to pump oil to run our refrigerators to cool it off. I did the math.
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Funny I don't see you participating in the mathematics thread.

This is the climate thread. Feel free to argue the thesis I outlined. If you find fault with the math, that would belong in the math thread.

 

[TSwizzle]

You say that like the predication was "significant changes in the climate at 2 degrees Celsius increase". The prediction was x degrees for y years. At the point of 2 degree increase, they prediction was that the increase wouldn't be particularly noticeable on a major scale. There'd be signs, but not huge ones. So your repeated retort of well "we haven't noticed it" is 100% in line with what the predictions have been to this point. The problem really starts with the next couple of degrees.

lol, "soon the kids won't know what snow is!!11!!!!1!!!!"

The predictions of climate collapse are gravely over stated.

Needing to redraw USDA growth zone mapping is very much a sign of climate change. Climate change that was predicted decades ago.

Climate has always been variable.

It really is a religion for you lot.

It will get up to a balmy 79f on the West Side today. Oh the humanity!! #PrayForSantaMonica

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You say that like the predication was "significant changes in the climate at 2 degrees Celsius increase". The prediction was x degrees for y years. At the point of 2 degree increase, they prediction was that the increase wouldn't be particularly noticeable on a major scale. There'd be signs, but not huge ones. So your repeated retort of well "we haven't noticed it" is 100% in line with what the predictions have been to this point. The problem really starts with the next couple of degrees.

lol, "soon the kids won't know what snow is!!11!!!!1!!!!"

Interesting how you translated my text to that jumble. Do you need to do that to everything you can't soberly address?

The predictions of climate collapse are gravely over stated.

The climate doesn't need to collapse to become problematic. You are suggesting some sort of false dichotomy where either the weather is mid 70s in Southern California or life has gone extinct. There is a large swath of reality between those two conditions.

Needing to redraw USDA growth zone mapping is very much a sign of climate change. Climate change that was predicted decades ago.

Climate has always been variable.

Variability would imply a bit random. These increases were accurately predicted. And the reason for these predicted increases isn't changing, in general, and the predictions indicate more increases.

It really is a religion for you lot.

Technically, you are the one resorting to dogmatic repeated phrases, like the one below.... all the while ignoring sound scientific predictions that have been found to be accurate so far on global temperature change. You haven't shown why the scientists have been right so far despite their reason being wrong. You really shown anything. You seem to think verbal denial is science.

It will get up to a balmy 79f on the West Side today. Oh the humanity!! #PrayForSantaMonica

 

[steve_bank]

I don't hear he word apocalypse used in regard to climate change. Maybe the extremists on the net use it.

What I hearglo0bal in reporting is reasoned analysis of the basis of climate change, effects we see now, and the long term predictions.

\No one is predicting an immediate global apocalypse.

Chafe is affecting insects and the bottom of the ocean food chain both of which in the long run affect us humans.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don't hear he word apocalypse used in regard to climate change. Maybe the extremists on the net use it.

The era of global warming has ended and “the era of global boiling has arrived”, the UN secretary general, António Guterres, has said after scientists confirmed July was on track to be the world’s hottest month on record. “Climate change is here. It is terrifying. And it is just the beginning,” Guterres said.

Teh Gruaniad

Humanity has only two years left “to save the world” by making dramatic changes in the way it spews heat-trapping emissions and it has even less time to act to get the finances behind such a massive shift, the head of the United Nations climate agency said.

AP News

etc.

An end of times, rapture like cult.

 

[steve_bank]

Well, it appears when posting here you are the one in a cult like rapture experience. Repetitious repeating of a mantra.

As I said several times you can quote mine the net and pieces from mainstream sources like AP out of a context. I am not looking at any of y our5 links. When I did before it was always out of context.

I have to wonder if you make money posting this stuff.

If you want to believe there are no problems that are worsening from climate change and it alleviates your worries go for it.

The majority of the population is emerged in pop culture and oblivious to anything else.

 

[TSwizzle]

As I said several times you can quote mine the net and pieces from mainstream sources like AP out of a context.

Quote mine? Out of context?

The majority of the population is emerged in pop culture and oblivious to anything else.

You are in a rapture like cult.

You WANT it to be true.

You WANT to punish the heretical population.

 

[steve_bank]

Thanks for a big grin on my face and a deep belly laugh.

I don't want it to be true. You have been given copious science on why global warming is is human caused

The average temperature rise year by year is a remeasured fact.Denied by the screwballs who claim the measurements are wrong.

There are time lapse videos of the year by year reduction in snow packs and glaciers in the PNW Cascades. It is not catastrophe yet in the PNW but it is headed there.

Snow pack melts in the spring fills reservoirs and provide irrigation for agriculture.

Already earlier spring melts is affecting agriculture. Irrigation canals are being lined tom minimize water lass.

University Of Washington predicts the Columbia River will lower due to reduced snow melts. This will affect agriculture in Eastern Washington and hydro power.

There are subtle things happening globally that can add up. In Lake Washington here in Seattle there is an algae bloom that is sensitive to water temperature. The warming lake means an earlier bloom. There is a small fish that blooms on eating the algae. Returning spawning salmon arrive past the bloom of small fish which they eat. Less food for the salmon and fewer new salmon.

In the ocean coral reefs are sensitive to rising water temperature, they die. Coral reefs are the nurseries at the bottom of the ocean food chain.

Te same science that predicts an El Nino or ll Niina cycle and local weather forecass6sds and hurricanes is used to predict climate change.

West coast El Nino and El Nina depend on ocean temperature.

So yes, a lot of small things adding up could effect global food supplies enough to affectt economies and populations.

 

[TSwizzle]

The predictions of the coming climate apocalypse/breakdown is just fear mongering claptrap. Al Gore,

 

[steve_bank]

The predictions of the coming climate apocalypse/breakdown is just fear mongering claptrap. Al Gore,

Ignorance is bliss.

Kick back in a comfortable chair, have a drink or a joint, put on the headphones and zone out from reality. Get laid. Been there done that back in the 70s. A great escape.

Today it is 24/7 streaming video and music, and smart phones. The great escape from reality.

My question for younger people is on what basis do you believe that in the next 1,2 or 3 or 40 years that the food /water supplies and the economy will be as it is today.

Do you believe in 40 or 50 years your retirement plan will be worth anything?

Is it blind faith despite human history?

 

[Swammerdami]

The predictions of climate collapse are gravely over stated.

Wrong. Assuming that "climate collapse" means "climate changes severe enough to have huge adverse effects on human societies" we are almost there now. In 2024 the U.S. suffered at least $182 billion of damage from climate and weather events, the highest since 2017 and far higher than 20th century numbers. As implied in the graphic attached, NOAA "closes its annual book" at the end of November, so the L.A. fires, with their huge cost, were NOT included in this total.

In 2024, global temperature exceeded the pre-industrial (1850–1900) average by 2.63°F (1.46°C). This was a record, smashing the previous record set in ... 2023.

...
Climate has always been variable.

Correct!! Where you lose the thread lies in your failure to comprehend that climate variability implies climate fragility. The huge increase in global temperature I just mentioned was caused by a mere 0.015% increase in atmospheric CO2.

People have tried to explain this to you before. I'll give you a second chance to read comments you obviously didn't read a year ago:

The Climate Change Deniers' Cult will bob and weave; and sometimes espouse the commonness of rapid change in the past. They fail to grasp that this works against their position. Yes, dramatic climate transitions have occurred in the past but very rarely on the time scale of human civilization. 53 million years ago, for example, temperature fell sharply due to a sudden increase in duckweed population.

If duckweed could induce a sharp temperature change, imagine what Homo technologis can do.

I tried to explain this earlier and will excerpt from that post.

. . . It is not known with certainty what caused the Earth to cool about 3 million years ago, leading to glaciation and a climate where hominids thrived. One possible cause is the closing of the Central American Seaway as plate tectonics pushed the South and North America landmasses together. Separating the cold water in the Eastern Pacific from the warm Caribbean increased ocean heat in the North Atlantic which (paradoxically?) increased ice production in Greenland.

Anyway, as we examine past fluctuation it is interesting to see how often the level of greenhouse gases, especially CO2, correlates strongly with temperature. With CO2 both cause and effect of warming, positive feedback means that small changes can have a big effect on global temperatures.

This is a key point that deniers of anthropogenic climate change overlook. They take exactly the WRONG conclusion from the FACT that there have been frequent temperature fluctuations in the past. The sharp fluctuations of the past demonstrate that, due to positive feedbacks, the Earth's climate is FRAGILE. Two trillion tons of CO2 may seem like a tiny amount, but scientists understand that it has had a huge effect, and will continue to heat the Earth in coming decades.

Two specific changes may illustrate climate fragility. About 56 million years ago, methane hydrates in ocean sediments became warm enough to be released. This happened quite suddenly, and -- because methane is a greenhouse gas -- there was an EXTREMELY rapid rise in Earth's temperature, even bigger than the anthropogenic warming we currently enjoy. This sudden temperature rise caused massive extinctions.

Just a few million years later there was sharp temperature change in the opposite direction. With the extinctions, higher temperatures, and high concentration of CO2, multitudes of oceanic duckweeds (mosquito-ferns) thrived., sequestering carbon as dead duckweeds dropped to the ocean floor. This carbon sequestration caused temperatures to fall sharply.

These examples show that tiny causes, e.g. a rise in duckweed population, can have big effect. CO2 levels in the atmosphere are higher than they've been in a million years; and are still growing. Temperature records are being over-turned (though not in Santa Monica!). Large glaciers are on the verge of collapse. Habitats on land and ocean undergo profound changes.

By now the nay-sayers, embarrassed by their own wilful ignorance, are unwelcome at Faux News and turn to Newsmax and Infowars!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As I said several times you can quote mine the net and pieces from mainstream sources like AP out of a context.

Quote mine? Out of context?

The majority of the population is emerged in pop culture and oblivious to anything else.

You are in a rapture like cult.

You WANT it to be true.

You WANT to punish the heretical population.

I remember this exact bullshit being used when shit wasn't going the way it was supposed to in Iraq. Oh you want America to fail.

 

[DBT]

As I said several times you can quote mine the net and pieces from mainstream sources like AP out of a context.

Quote mine? Out of context?

The majority of the population is emerged in pop culture and oblivious to anything else.

You are in a rapture like cult.

You WANT it to be true.

You WANT to punish the heretical population.

Want? Reality doesn't care what anyone wants.

 

[TSwizzle]

Wrong. Assuming that "climate collapse" means "climate changes severe enough to have huge adverse effects on human societies" we are almost there now.

I have been hearing this for 30 years fella.

 

[steve_bank]

'Hey Barney, duh all this climate stuff is bullshit'.

'Yea Tswizzle I'm with you dude ... belch fart .... duuhhh give me another beer.."

 

[DBT]

Wrong. Assuming that "climate collapse" means "climate changes severe enough to have huge adverse effects on human societies" we are almost there now.

I have been hearing this for 30 years fella.

Nobody of note said it would happen overnight. Or that it would definitely be a total collapse. More likely a major adjustment to be made in the near future, the coming decades.

 

[Elixir]

I have been hearing this for 30 years fella.

- Swiz

I have been hearing it for over 60 years. And it turns out it’s true.
If you’re around in another 30, you might even notice.

Meanwhile you can say that anything bad that happens is due to uncontrollable natural cyclic events.
Not a problem, and if it is, it’s not your problem.
And that is the problem.

 

[TSwizzle]

Wrong. Assuming that "climate collapse" means "climate changes severe enough to have huge adverse effects on human societies" we are almost there now.

I have been hearing this for 30 years fella.

Nobody of note said it would happen overnight. Or that it would definitely be a total collapse. More likely a major adjustment to be made in the near future, the coming decades.

Really? All the propaganda has been about how climate change is an existential threat and how we must act now in order to save the planet from the coming climate apocalypse, we only have months to save the planet from catastrophe.

 

[DBT]

Wrong. Assuming that "climate collapse" means "climate changes severe enough to have huge adverse effects on human societies" we are almost there now.

I have been hearing this for 30 years fella.

Nobody of note said it would happen overnight. Or that it would definitely be a total collapse. More likely a major adjustment to be made in the near future, the coming decades.

Really? All the propaganda has been about how climate change is an existential threat and how we must act now in order to save the planet from the coming climate apocalypse, we only have months to save the planet from catastrophe.

Months to save the plsnet? Where did you get that from?

 

[Elixir]

All the propaganda has been about how climate change is an existential threat and how we must act now

So you don’t consider it propaganda when I told you that you might notice in 30 years?
Or that your grandchildren will be paying a high price?
Guess you’re just being selfish.

in order to save the planet from the coming climate apocalypse, we only have months to save the planet from catastrophe.

What’s with your “save the planet” mantra?
The planet will be here for millions of years into the future, guaranteed. For humans living on it, things are going to get less and less comfortable as long as people like you bury their heads in the sand about their effect upon it. How fast the onset and how severe the discomfort, is tbd. But the causes and effects are observable and denying it is stupid.

Months to save the plsnet? Where did you get that from?

The usual orifice.