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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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Sick. After killing that many people, mostly women and children,
A reality check on this oft repeated canard.
About half of Gaza population are "children". This just means minors (<18) which is a problem because the term children" is often used to imply innocence, but in Gaza, terror groups often recruit minor teenagers 15-17. So not all "children" are non-combatants.

But as I said, about half the population is <18. And about half the adult population are women. Ipso facto, ~3/4 of the population are either minors or women. So if only just over half of the fatalities are "women and children", that means that they are strongly underrepresented among fatalities.
 
The alternative is to not engage in such massive destruction and death. Duh.
I would agree.
Unfortunately, GWM don't care about how many Gazans die in the disaster.
So they launched a bunch of missiles and used their own people for human shields.

How about the Muslim terrorists don't keep up the massive death and destruction? Obviously, it's because Muslims are just violent tribalists? Maybe you have another explanation for the disaster going on in Gaza?
Tom
 
The alternative is to not engage in such massive destruction and death. Duh.
I would agree.
Unfortunately, GWM don't care about how many Gazans die in the disaster.
So they launched a bunch of missiles and used their own people for human shields.
Yes, they did. Of course, Netanahyu uses Israeli citizens as shields (he is not the front lines).
But the fact they don't care about their people reflects on their vileness. It is not a justification for killing Palestinian noncombatants. Your implicit argument seems to be "Hamas don't care, so why should the IDF?" Which doesn't speak well of gov't of Israel.
How about the Muslim terrorists don't keep up the massive death and destruction? Obviously, it's because Muslims are just violent tribalists? Maybe you have another explanation for the disaster going on in Gaza?
Tom
Whether you like it or not, the massive death and destruction at the direct hands of Muslim terrorists pales in comparison to the death and destruction of the Israeli response. Yes, Hamas started this tragedy. But Israel is choosing how to end it.
 
Most people just want Israel to stop killing Palestinian civilians. This is absolutely a strawman argument.
Unfortunately, the GWM do not want that.
Or it would end, peacefully. But we all know that isn't going to happen. Because Hamas still has a couple million human shields to use.
Tom
It would end peacefully if the IWM (ZWM?) got onboard with Israel being a "multiethnic democracy offering peace and prosperity" and allowed the former residents to return and stopped displacing even more people.

The Return can happen slowly and in stages, so there's no reason to panic. But the displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank to make way for even more settlers should end immediately. Obviously it's fueling the conflict and needs to stop.
 
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No people just give a damn about human rights, apparently you don't.
Do you mean those of us who support multiethnic democracy?
Or violent Muslim terrorists?

Because it's pretty obvious to me which side you fall on. Rather like a bunch of other people on this forum.
Tom
The overwhelming majority of posters on this forum support multiethnic democracy.

It's just that some here think they can have one in Israel while carefully controlling the mix of religious communities and ethnicities so that Jews will always occupy the most favorable social position, while others realize that as long as non-Jewish Palestinians are discriminated against, it isn't really the multiethnic democracy offering peace and prosperity it's claimed to be.

You can't build a just and fair society on a foundation of bias and bigotry. Israel can either be the Jewish State that exists for the benefit of Jews alone, or it can be a multiethnic democracy offering peace and prosperity to all. Or it can be a partner in peace with a Palestinian State (or more than one), as a way to have its cake and eat it, too.
 
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Gay White Male?

Guy With Money?

Gram-Molecular Weight?

Grand Mexican Warlock?
Gazans Who Matter
Tom
I guess that implies there are Gazans who don't matter. I can see now how the rampant carnage is justified in the minds of some people.
Specifically, Islamic terrorists.
They don't care about Gazans as a whole.

Some of us do care about them. Just not the GWM or their international apologists.
Tom
 
The only solution that Hamas, Palestine, and the entire Muslim region will accept is the extermination of Jews.
Do you have any sense of exactly how "Jewish" an individual has to be to be eligible for extermination?

I'm concerned - I want to visit Egypt, which is 90% Muslim, but as my father was 100% a son of Jewish immigrants, I am at least 50% Jewish.

Do Hamas, Palestine, and the entire Muslim region have the means to detect that level of Jewishness and deem it fir for extermination?

If so, it is a unifying principle like no other. I cannot think of anything else that Hamas, Palestine, and the entire Muslim region is completely unified on.
Without access to US databases how would they know? I would worry about random Islamist violence before I would worry about being targeted if you do not display any outward Jewish symbols.
 

Nitpick: This is slightly misleading. From 1920 to 1948 Gaza was part of Mandatory Palestine, nominally controlled by Britain. After the 1948 war it fell under Egyptian military rule. Wikipedia offers information about the 1948 War's affect on the Palestinian people:
Nitpick: It was annexed by Egypt to prevent the Palestinians from making it their state. They didn't want it and relinquished their claim as soon as Israel seized it and there was no longer a "danger" of it becoming a Palestinian state.

Wikipedia said:
In the 1948 Palestine war, more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs – about half of Mandatory Palestine's predominantly Arab population – were expelled or fled from their homes, at first by Zionist paramilitaries, and after the establishment of Israel, by its military. The expulsion and flight was a central component of the fracturing, dispossession, and displacement of Palestinian society, known as the Nakba. Dozens of massacres targeting Arabs were conducted by Israeli military forces and between 400 and 600 Palestinian villages were destroyed. Village wells were poisoned in a biological warfare programme and properties were looted to prevent Palestinian refugees from returning. Other sites were subject to Hebraization of Palestinian place names.

The precise number of Palestinian refugees, many of whom settled in Palestinian refugee camps in neighboring states, is a matter of dispute, although the number is around 700,000, being approximately 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel. About 250,000–300,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled during the 1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine, before the termination of the British Mandate on 14 May 1948. The desire to prevent the collapse of the Palestinians and to avoid more refugees were some of the reasons for the entry of the Arab League into the country, which began the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.
Egyptian rule continued until the 1967 War:
Wikipedia said:
Gaza was invaded and occupied by Israel in 1967 following the Six-Day War. Israel created the Israeli Military Governorate to administrate territories it captured, including Gaza. Israeli settlements began to be established in the Gaza Strip.

Organized armed struggle against Israel in Gaza peaked between 1969 and 1971, but was largely crushed by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) under the command of Ariel Sharon.
The organized armed struggle dated from 1948, not 1967. It merely peaked during that period as more effort was directed their way after the failure of conventional armies.
 
Didn't we already snip this derail? Take the Israel / Gaza stuff to the Israel / Gaza thread.
 
Jews are a particularly sticky wicket.
That was my point.
A sticky, militaristic wicket.
Why do you add militaristic?
Leaving out the defense against violent attacks, what militaristic behavior are you referring to? I don't see much.
Tom
What you don’t see, forms the basis of your position.
I think you’d “see” it with great clarity if you’d been living as an Arab in Gaza or the West Bank for the last 15+ years.
Give me an example from the last 15 years.

Then consider the militaristic behavior of Israel's Muslim neighbors since May of 48, and see if you can understand the comparison.
Tom
I understand that 40:1 is not justice, or in any way justifiable.
Even the perverse “eye for an eye” dynamic you ostensibly put forth, in no way justifies indiscriminately killing 40+ Arabs for every Jew that was killed or captured 500 days ago by a few dozen radicals that BIBI WAS WARNED ABOUT and ignored.
How long do you think that excuse is good for?
When the ratio goes to 100:1 or 10,000 :1 will you be “satisfied”?
Herein lies the problem: You're using the casualty ratio as a measure of justice, but it is not. Trying to use it as a measure of justice is saying that collective punishment is proper--and it's not. You're taking the path of evil here.

And what you're missing is that Iran would be happy to trade 40 Gazans for one Jew.
 
You're using the casualty ratio as a measure of justice, but it is not.
No, Loren. There’s nothing whatsoever “just” about any of it. It is a toxic brew of clashing ideologies, economic imbalances and centuries of conditioned responses that has led people -even some good people - to excusing the most heinous and despicable acts of which humans are capable. None of this killing and destruction will make anything better. I expect better, and am disappointed in humanity as usual . But especially in Bibi’s supporters, as I suffer the delusion that they should be more civilized than the poor camel jockey towelheads. But noooo …
:(
 
Iran would be happy to trade 40 Gazans for one Jew.
So if you drive the ratio to 4,000:1, Iran will be unhappy? Maybe 40,000:1 will do the trick?
WTF?
If peace broke out, and there weren't any more casualties,
Israel would be fine with it. Iran and Hamas would be the ones stepping up their game killing Gazans.
Tom
 
Israel would be fine with it.
Israelis would. Jews would, by and large. But Bibi would not. He’d be in court and probably jail.

Iran and Hamas would be the ones stepping up their game killing Gazans.
All the better for the Trump resort he and Bibi are looking at! At the very least they’d be saving Israel (the US) lotsa moola by doing the job Bibi cut out for himself.
 
Gazans wouldn't be okay with it.
Under Hamas’ authoritarian control, dissent is dangerous. Civilians may remain silent despite opposing the human shield tactic.

Expressing criticism could be more dangerous than serving as a human shield.
The total sentiment of Gazans is impossible for you or I to ascertain, even if their preferences had any influence over events.
 
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