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Well... it's Trump... again. #47, here we go.

Elixir said:
steve_bank said:
He may dig a hole that is very difficult to get out of.
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WUT?
If he croaks this afternoon (from my fingers to god's ear!) the hole he has already dug will be more than "difficult" to get out of.
We are already fucked.
Thanks, Trumpsuckers.
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See my post in the Elon thread about Curtis Yarvin. JD Vance is a sycophant of Yarvin's. If Trump goes, Vance would continue on the same course.
 
According to the Department of Labor, inflation went down to 2.8%.

But how can we trust economic data coming out of the federal government? Trump has infected every department with his lying cronies.

Inflation
GDP
Unemployment
Job growth
Etc...
The government produces critical economic data that pretty much everyone needs to make decisions.

What will keep Trump from cooking the books?

I wonder what laws there are that might require that there be no lying on the economic data? Will career civil servants have to start whistle blowing and resigning? Will the business community keep him honest? The Stock Market?

 
crazyfingers said:
According to the Department of Labor, inflation went down to 2.8%.

But how can we trust economic data coming out of the federal government? Trump has infected every department with his lying cronies.

Inflation
GDP
Unemployment
Job growth
Etc...
The government produces critical economic data that pretty much everyone needs to make decisions.

What will keep Trump from cooking the books?

I wonder what laws there are that might require that there be no lying on the economic data? Will career civil servants have to start whistle blowing and resigning? Will the business community keep him honest? The Stock Market?

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I think someone would spill the beans. Besides, I think this would cause great disruption in the markets if we started to call such critical data into question.
 
TV and credit cards said:
crazyfingers said:
According to the Department of Labor, inflation went down to 2.8%.

But how can we trust economic data coming out of the federal government? Trump has infected every department with his lying cronies.

Inflation
GDP
Unemployment
Job growth
Etc...
The government produces critical economic data that pretty much everyone needs to make decisions.

What will keep Trump from cooking the books?

I wonder what laws there are that might require that there be no lying on the economic data? Will career civil servants have to start whistle blowing and resigning? Will the business community keep him honest? The Stock Market?

Click to expand...
I think someone would spill the beans. Besides, I think this would cause great disruption in the markets if we started to call such critical data into question.
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It would be extremely disruptive. But is Trump smart enough to care about that more than cooking the books for talking points?
 
Trump being Trump.

Trump Truth Social said:
The European Union, one of the most hostile and abusive taxing and tariffing authorities in the World, which was formed for the sole purpose of taking advantage of the United States, has just put a nasty 50% Tariff on Whisky. If this Tariff is not removed immediately, the U.S. will shortly place a 200% Tariff on all WINES, CHAMPAGNES, & ALCOHOLIC PRODUCTS COMING OUT OF FRANCE AND OTHER E.U. REPRESENTED COUNTRIES. This will be great for the Wine and Champagne businesses in the U.S.
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He does realize Canada is unstocking American alcohol right? We sell more there.

The idiot is like Chico Marx in the Cocoanuts auction scene where he is told to bid higher, but then he doesn't stop, he just bids up and up and up. America tariffs the EU, the EU responds and Trump responds to the response with shock and outrage... and lots of hyperbole.
 
crazyfingers said:
It would be extremely disruptive.
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Feature,not bug.
If you were President, and only cared about gathering up more power for yourself, you'd do precisely what The Felon does - try to destroy anything that might have the power to impede your acquisition of more power. Right now, that's the United States Government.
How long have I been accused of hyperbole for repeating this?
 
Federal judge rules mass firing of federal workers illegal and orders them rehired.

Whether that will happen, I have my doubts, but it feels good to read what the judge said.

...

U.S. District Judge William Alsup described the mass firings as a “sham” strategy by the government’s central human resources office to sidestep legal requirements for reducing the federal workforce.

...

Alsup, a San Francisco-based appointee of President Bill Clinton, ordered the Defense, Treasury, Energy, Interior, Agriculture and Veterans Affairs departments to “immediately” offer all fired probationary employees their jobs back. The Office of Personnel Management, the judge said, had made an “unlawful” decision to terminate them.

...

Alsup also lashed out at the Justice Department over its handling of the case, saying he believes that Trump administration lawyers were hiding the facts about who directed the mass firings.
“You will not bring the people in here to be cross-examined. You’re afraid to do so because you know cross examination would reveal the truth,” the judge said to a DOJ attorney during a hearing Thursday. “I tend to doubt that you’re telling me the truth. … I’m tired of seeing you stonewall on trying to get at the truth.”

Alsup also said the administration attempted to circumvent federal laws on reducing the workforce by attributing the firings to “performance” when that was not in fact the case. The judge called the move “a gimmick.”

“It is sad, a sad day when our government would fire some good employee and say it was based on performance when they know good and well that’s a lie,” Alsup said.
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I recall it was so obvious that it was a lie to say that all those thousands of people were fired over poor performance. Glad to see the judge call it a lie.

 
Derec said:
Loren Pechtel said:
It used to be a standard aspect of tax policy that a dollar would only be taxed once.
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But different levels of government have their own taxes. I do not see how paying both state and federal income tax is somehow double taxation.
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If you permit double taxation you can end up with tax rates above 100%.

And note that it's not just state taxes, Americans living in other countries would be royally screwed if it didn't work this way.
 
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Which is what one does when itemizing.
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I already explained it to you. It's not that difficult to comprehend.

As it stands, SALT deduction remains a tax cut for the rich. It is only rank partisanship that has people on here defend it.
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You think I'm Republican???

I defend it because it's part of what used to be considered being fair in taxation. It's just the standard has been raised high enough to whittle away the value of itemization for most of the middle class.
 
Shadowy Man said:
Elixir said:
Shadowy Man said:
They would itemize if it gave better result, yes?
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If they have deductibles exceeding the standard deduction, they’re probably not all that poor.
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Derec is acting as if it’s an extra benefit that the rich get that the poor can’t access but the reality is that they don’t access it because the government gives them a better deal with the standard deduction.

Maybe I’m missing something in what he’s saying. I’m not giving it too much thought right now I’ll admit.
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What's been happening is that rather than expand the lower tax brackets they have raised the standard deduction. This has been combined with moving things from the employer to the employee as a stealth tax increase (my boss paid some relocation expenses--oops, accounting squawked, even though it was at my employer's request it showed up as taxable income for me. I have never itemized--while that money was "deductible" in reality it wasn't. Not to mention the 15.3% of FICA the government got out of the deal.) Anything to raise revenue without "raising taxes"--it's moved our tax code from being reasonably fair (you can argue the brackets and percentages, I'm saying that it used to be fair in only taxing that which went into your pocket and doing so exactly once) to a nightmare of give with one hand, take with the other. SALT is one of the few remaining vestiges of the days when it was fair.

And I'm quite partial to the system being fair even though in this particular case I gain nothing.
 
ZiprHead said:
AHIC now say he will raise tarriffs on Canada if they refuse to become our 51st state. And he said Tesla protesters will be in big trouble.

I'm really starting to think this guy is insane.
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What's wrong with you?

You're only "starting to"??? Where have you been for the last 8 years?
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Americans living in other countries would be royally screwed if it didn't work this way.
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America is, I believe, unique in that she taxes the income of non-resident citizens. Literally no other OECD country does that.

Not only that, she also taxes non-resident non-citizens on income "earned in the US" - I have never lived in, worked in, nor been a citizen of the USA, but because a previous employer gave me some shares as a bonus, and these shares pay dividends via the NASDAQ, through a broker in New York, I pay US taxes (which I can offset against my Australian income tax) on those dividends.

Meanwhile I retain UK citizenship, and pay absolutely nothing in UK tax (other than VAT on any purchases made when I visit family over there - and for any such purchases that I subsequently export to Australia, I can claim that VAT back at the port of departure). The sum total cost to me of my ongoing UK citizenship is the fee for renewng my passport every decade, and that is a voluntary expense - if I don't plan to use the passport for a while, I can let it lapse and renew it at some future date of my choice, or not at all.

Americans living in foreign countries shouldn't have to deal with the IRS at all. I certainly don't have any dealings with the UK tax authority - I am not even sure what it is currently called, as I believe they changed the name more than once since I emigrated.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Shadowy Man said:
Elixir said:
Shadowy Man said:
They would itemize if it gave better result, yes?
Click to expand...
If they have deductibles exceeding the standard deduction, they’re probably not all that poor.
Click to expand...
Derec is acting as if it’s an extra benefit that the rich get that the poor can’t access but the reality is that they don’t access it because the government gives them a better deal with the standard deduction.

Maybe I’m missing something in what he’s saying. I’m not giving it too much thought right now I’ll admit.
Click to expand...
What's been happening is that rather than expand the lower tax brackets they have raised the standard deduction. This has been combined with moving things from the employer to the employee as a stealth tax increase (my boss paid some relocation expenses--oops, accounting squawked, even though it was at my employer's request it showed up as taxable income for me. I have never itemized--while that money was "deductible" in reality it wasn't. Not to mention the 15.3% of FICA the government got out of the deal.) Anything to raise revenue without "raising taxes"--it's moved our tax code from being reasonably fair (you can argue the brackets and percentages, I'm saying that it used to be fair in only taxing that which went into your pocket and doing so exactly once) to a nightmare of give with one hand, take with the other. SALT is one of the few remaining vestiges of the days when it was fair.

And I'm quite partial to the system being fair even though in this particular case I gain nothing.
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^ Why “tariffs” is the most beautiful word in the entire English language. An unlimited tax on poor people, practically zero effect on billionaires. They have minimal effect on millionaires, and put a knife into the back of people who don’t exceed the standard deduction, a knife that can be twisted at will simply by the King’s decree. .
 
Aliens Enemies Act?
Really?
Last time use was to for Japanese/americans in WWII.
 
bilby said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Americans living in other countries would be royally screwed if it didn't work this way.
Click to expand...
America is, I believe, unique in that she taxes the income of non-resident citizens. Literally no other OECD country does that.

Not only that, she also taxes non-resident non-citizens on income "earned in the US" - I have never lived in, worked in, nor been a citizen of the USA, but because a previous employer gave me some shares as a bonus, and these shares pay dividends via the NASDAQ, through a broker in New York, I pay US taxes (which I can offset against my Australian income tax) on those dividends.

Meanwhile I retain UK citizenship, and pay absolutely nothing in UK tax (other than VAT on any purchases made when I visit family over there - and for any such purchases that I subsequently export to Australia, I can claim that VAT back at the port of departure). The sum total cost to me of my ongoing UK citizenship is the fee for renewng my passport every decade, and that is a voluntary expense - if I don't plan to use the passport for a while, I can let it lapse and renew it at some future date of my choice, or not at all.

Americans living in foreign countries shouldn't have to deal with the IRS at all. I certainly don't have any dealings with the UK tax authority - I am not even sure what it is currently called, as I believe they changed the name more than once since I emigrated.
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The problem with the not taxing approach is that it leaves open evasion by means of making your income show up in a tax haven country.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Which is what one does when itemizing.
Click to expand...
I already explained it to you. It's not that difficult to comprehend.

As it stands, SALT deduction remains a tax cut for the rich. It is only rank partisanship that has people on here defend it.
Click to expand...
You think I'm Republican???

I defend it because it's part of what used to be considered being fair in taxation. It's just the standard has been raised high enough to whittle away the value of itemization for most of the middle class.
Click to expand...
Totally agree! Why the hell should I be taxed on top of a tax!? It’s double taxation…
 
SALT is to promote home ownership. The standard deduction was jacked up a lot that SALT's benefits disappeared. And the ceiling on it helps people is lower tax states. The people in the northeast states are Democrat and Republican and are both impacted by the ceiling. So it isn't a partisan complaint.
 
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