• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

How Will the Economy Improve?

***checks futures***

Looks like the DOW is set to shed another 2300-2400 points at the Monday open.
Futures markets open 6pm est. You must be looking at the data when they closed on Friday. Although I wouldn't be completely shocked if another big dump is in store.
Right.... now I'm not sure where I got that, other than it was attached to a bitcoin report (which I THINK referenced today's market) showing a drop from 83K to 79K. Maybe they projected that onto the indexes... but it looks now like an over?under?estimate.

1743986372812.png
 
I would actually support a plan with small tariffs used to finance local factory subsidies. I agree with bringing manufacturing back to the states.

Trump's plan is idiocy on steroids.
 
I would actually support a plan with small tariffs used to finance local factory subsidies. I agree with bringing manufacturing back to the states.

Trump's plan is idiocy on steroids.
We aren't competing with cheap labor markets. Period.
 
I would actually support a plan with small tariffs used to finance local factory subsidies. I agree with bringing manufacturing back to the states.

Trump's plan is idiocy on steroids.
We aren't competing with cheap labor markets. Period.
A big basic problem is that most all stuff we "make" is made of other stuff, and often a lot of different other stuff from a lot of different places, and we're not gonna make all of it within a hundred - or even a thousand miles of everyone's home town. The tariff model deprives people of stuff, straight up. If not by prohibitive cost increases, then by supply chain and delivery problems, customs delays... All to put the screws to consumers, the very people who drive the economy.
 
My own savings have always been invested conservatively and suboptimally. I buy "recession-proof" stocks like JNJ, PG and MO. Why? They have low beta; they hold their own when QQQ is on a roller-coaster ride. I LOSE when the Bulls are running, but need not worry when the Bears rule.

I literally ignored stock prices for months or YEARS at a time, even during a "crash." I've been liquidating and all I have now is JNJ and a small bit of EUAD.

But lately I have been checking stock prices ... as a recreational spectator sport!
JNJ is UP 6% on the year, even after a sharp fall on Friday. (EUAD I bought just to "make a statement to myself!" It also plunged on Friday.)

The dollar is down against the Yen, lowest price since October.
The dollar rose against the British pound last week, but lost all those gains today.
Against the Euro, the Dollar is now as high as its been since October.
All in all, the Dollar's trend seems ... Unclear. There will be increasing loss of confidence in the US as the world's reserve currency. OTOH, the world depends on the U.S.'s great economic engine; the tariffs hurt other countries (except Russia) more than they hurt America.

I expect countries to come begging ("Our penguins will stop carrying fentanyl across the ocean!"); tariffs to come down; and Trump to proclaim victory. Even with this, prestige and respect for the U.S. have already suffered long-term damage.

Ir's Monday afternoon in Japan. The Nikkei 225 is down 6.3% as I write.
 

Well your first question will be "why the heck are you posting this link in this thread?!" The answer is that we have not been discussing part of the op post: the end to Russian sanctions.

How this will play out is that the govt is going to try to change the narrative on Russia so that people are more amenable to ending the sanctions. They already tried to make Zelenskyy look like the bad guy. Next they will try to expose spy agencies' work against Russia and any disinformation, but much of that will also be disinformation and cherry-picking what can be transparent and not transparent.
 
Well Trump paused the tariffs at 10% for 90 days and the economy improved! (unless it involves China and its 125% tariffs)
 
Last edited:
Well Trump paused the tariffs at 10% for 90 days and the economy improved! (unless it involves China and its 125% tariffs)
As it has been said" Wall Street is not Main street".
WE shall see what stunt he pulls next.
It's like he is just playing games to see how far he can fuck with us.
 
Well Trump paused the tariffs at 10% for 90 days and the economy improved! (unless it involves China and its 125% tariffs)
The economy will be damaged at least for a generation. The rest of the world has woken up to the fact that the US is untrustworthy. You can't rely on a single thing it says or agreement it has made. It is all complete garbage now. Integrating economically with the US is now a national security risk, no country will do it, and any country that has already done it is now planning an escape route.

The rule of law is also eroding. Companies can be targeted for retribution by the government for not sufficiently supporting that government or opposing that government. Major companies must be politically aligned with the government or be punished through capricious and illegal means. They can also now be extorted to enrich the regime in power.

The US' outright hostility to the global economic order and set of international laws it created also means holding dollars and US treasuries is now a risky bet. The inability to tackle the national debt in a serious way, the outright hostility to allies, the lawlessness, inconsistent and unpredictable policy, unilateral punishment of foes and allies alike, the breaking of past agreements and norms produces a collapse of confidence and a spike in uncertainty.

The US economy and the global economic order the US has spent the last 80 years building, allowing it to become the wealthiest and most productive economy in history has been punched in the heart and is now experiencing shock. There is high risk that the heart will continue to be punched and may one day stop beating.

The end result will be a loss of US dollar reserve currency status. US treasuries will no longer have the gold standard of reliability and trust it had earned over decades to receive. The US will no longer be able to influence a global trading system to its advantage to nearly the degree it had in previous decades, the rest of the world will move on and try its best to ignore what the US wants, something that had been unthinkable until now.

The end result will be higher interest rates, a weaker dollar, lower investment, lower productivity, lower wages, and an even more painful set of compromises that will need to be made to make the federal debt sustainable, meaning a combination of steeper tax increases and much fewer government services, and probably higher inflation and unemployment as well. A poorer country with crippled influence on the world stage.

And it didn't have to be this way. The right wing narrative would have you believe this had already occured or was inevitable. A bunch of lies that they turnrd into a reality with their horrific world view and terrible policy. Just 5 months ago the economist declared the US economy the envy of the world. Growth was comparatively strong, at the top of the industralized world. Economic production was the highest in world history for a nation, wealth had never been greater, productivity was strong and also in the top tier on the world stage. Production, wealth and high productivity expand the solution set to handle problems, both domestic and international. And it was all thrown away based on lies, disinformation, and the cult of one deranged, psycopathic, narcissistic rapist.

The narrative that the US has been screwed by the world order it created is absurd and laughable to the highest degree, when the exact opposite is true. In a rational world, anyone suggesting it would be laughed at and mocked. But we don't live in that world. We live in an idiocracy.
 
Last edited:
Well Trump paused the tariffs at 10% for 90 days and the economy improved! (unless it involves China and its 125% tariffs)
As it has been said" Wall Street is not Main street".
WE shall see what stunt he pulls next.
It's like he is just playing games to see how far he can fuck with us.
As a business owner, would you invest into this economy, take out large loans to expand your facility, purchase new equipment knowing that tomorrow could look very different than today?
Trump is reacting. He hasn't a clue. He pulled these tariff numbers out of his ass. He then likely read news or was told that instead of bending to his will, our (what I'll still call) allies looked also to realign because the US cannot be trusted. And they probably will still look to realign as best they can. These initial tariff actions could actually work to strengthen trade between China and nations other than the US as countries look for stability for their markets.
75% of Canada's exports go to the US. 80% of Mexico's. They are in the same boat as every business owner, wondering what to do, what will come next. Very Putin-like, I think Trump meant to make vassal states out of them.
There's good reason to move slowly in politics, especially when it comes to making economic policy. You can't know for sure how others will react to a new policy or what ongoing effects it might have.
Has Trump gotten it right now? We'll see how China reacts. Is it deserved? Probably, but is it too much too fast? Going hard economically on another nation with a formidable military may not be the best plan. China will play out how this will likely affect their economy and react accordingly.
 
Well Trump paused the tariffs at 10% for 90 days and the economy improved! (unless it involves China and its 125% tariffs)
As it has been said" Wall Street is not Main street".
WE shall see what stunt he pulls next.
It's like he is just playing games to see how far he can fuck with us.
Meanwhile, China and Xi are playing the long game, and they've been doing it for quite some time.

Trump has the attention span of a toddler, and can be swayed by a pretty blonde woman whispering in his ear or a sycophant in a blue suit telling him what will play well in the right wing press and social media tomorrow. Xi and the CCP are thinking "this is great! Our 50 year plan to become the dominant world economy has been accelerated by this idiot, and all we've gotta do is tell our people to tighten their belts (and roads) for a few years." Trump is acting like a bull in a (no pun intended) china shop, while China is ramping up a charm offensive to shift their business to other countries that the US has pissed off.

I heard Trump saying that "Xi is a very smart guy." Yes, he is. He's smarter than you, Donnie. You just don't realize it yet, and you probably never will.
 
Meanwhile, China and Xi are playing the long game, and they've been doing it for quite some time.

Trump has the attention span of a toddler, and can be swayed by a pretty blonde woman whispering in his ear or a sycophant in a blue suit telling him what will play well in the right wing press and social media tomorrow. Xi and the CCP are thinking "this is great! Our 50 year plan to become the dominant world economy has been accelerated by this idiot, and all we've gotta do is tell our people to tighten their belts (and roads) for a few years." Trump is acting like a bull in a (no pun intended) china shop, while China is ramping up a charm offensive to shift their business to other countries that the US has pissed off.

I heard Trump saying that "Xi is a very smart guy." Yes, he is. He's smarter than you, Donnie. You just don't realize it yet, and you probably never will.
Bold: Good luck with that. Countries make deals with China because they are easier to get than with the IMF or World Bank. Countries then complain about deals with China being a debt trap, China not using local labor, and a lack of reciprocity. Poorer countries are more likely to do deals with China than wealthier nations. They are like poor people having few options and being taken advantage of by a loan shark. I don't think China is exactly endearing themselves on the international stage.
 
The DOW is down over 800 right now. Some people have speculated that Trump was trying to manipulate the market yesterday when he put most tariffs on hold for 90 days. Plus, about 70% of the shit we buy is made in China. Trump is such a moron.
 
I heard on NPR that investors usually park their money in bonds when things look unstable. But they did not do that this time.
Where is it?
 

And it didn't have to be this way. The right wing narrative would have you believe this had already occured or was inevitable. A bunch of lies that they turnrd into a reality with their horrific world view and terrible policy. Just 5 months ago the economist declared the US economy the envy of the world. Growth was comparatively strong, at the top of the industralized world. Economic production was the highest in world history for a nation, wealth had never been greater, productivity was strong and also in the top tier on the world stage. Production, wealth and high productivity expand the solution set to handle problems, both domestic and international. And it was all thrown away based on lies, disinformation, and the cult of one deranged, psycopathic, narcissistic rapist.

In your wordview, how does the US project strength when our military can not even source drones with parts not made in China? In your worldview how does the exceptional US project power and leadership when it can not source antibiotics or masks for its own population during a pandemic?

Your view of the US looks like some beautiful well appointed house but the reality is there are some huge flaws in the foundation and the living room is starting to list sideways now. And everyone except you knows this.

Doing nothing at all is simply not an option at this point. It would be nicer not to lose what little honor we have left but pretending there are no problems does not make them disappear.
 
In your wordview, how does the US project strength when our military can not even source drones with parts not made in China?

So, in your worldview, when your very enemies are forced to send their children to sweatshops to manufacture your weapons of war against them, it is not a terribly horrible projection of strength.
 
Your view of the US looks like some beautiful well appointed house but the reality is there are some huge flaws in the foundation and the living room is starting to list sideways now. And everyone except you knows this.
Your view looks like addressing structural problems by torching the house and attacking the neighbors.
Doing nothing at all is simply not an option at this point.
Torching the house is definitely doing something.
Tom
 
Back
Top Bottom