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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

zorq said:
.. though you are playing to Russia's defense, it still doesn't excuse Russian atrocities.
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I am not playing anything. I am not Barbos. Sure, Indian Army does not allow attrocities to civilians or soldiers. We will stick with Geneva convention. Many other countries don't.
 
Harry Bosch said:
It is Russia that is dragging their feet. Trump finally understands this. Russia wants all of Ukraine. And probably great swaths of Eastern Europe. We need to increase sanctions on Russia. Dramatic increases. And countries that buy Russian oil and other exports should be banned from exporting into the US. Buying Russian oil, even at steep discounts, is feeding the Russian imperialist war machine.
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Yeah, I like to be behind the news rather than in front of them. If Russia is dragging its feet, then Trump (and the American administration) probably know why it is doing so. We could say that it is price negotiation.
Don't know how far the Russian desires go.
Well, all countries are have the right to form their own economic and strategic policies.
 
Regime in Kiev flat out rejected Trump's proposal. So the point of Russia rejecting it is mute.
Having said that, Trump's proposals change every second.
Russian proposal does not change and is extremely generous, because it keeps most of the Ukraine under their own rule. The only thing we want is neutrality and no nazis.
Ukraine should be like Austria. Problem is, EU/US regimes are obviously not interested in that because the whole thing was about having Ukraine to fight their war on Russia.
 
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aupmanyav said:
zorq said:
How can we tell the difference? Real evidence.
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In the political world, reality is a matter of perspective.
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LOL. That sounds exactly like something an amoral opportunist might say. It could even be a quote from a George Orwell book.

Lies don't become true just because a sufficiently large number of people believe them. And atrocities don't become any less atrocious just because they were performed by a tribe you are sympathetic to.
 
zorq said:

Lies don't become true just because a sufficiently large number of people believe them. And atrocities don't become any less atrocious just because they were performed by a tribe you are sympathetic to.
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That's ironic thing for you to say.
 
zorq said:
LOL. That sounds exactly like something an amoral opportunist might say.
Lies don't become true just because a sufficiently large number of people believe them. And atrocities don't become any less atrocious just because they were performed by a tribe you are sympathetic to.
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Politics is that kind of thing (George Bush Jr. - WMD).
It is not a matter of lies or truth, it is about perspective.
 
aupmanyav said:
zorq said:
LOL. That sounds exactly like something an amoral opportunist might say.
Lies don't become true just because a sufficiently large number of people believe them. And atrocities don't become any less atrocious just because they were performed by a tribe you are sympathetic to.
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Politics is that kind of thing (George Bush Jr. - WMD).
It is not a matter of lies or truth, it is about perspective.
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No. Bush lied. It is quite simple.

Lies aren't true no matter how much you insist. There is no such thing as "subjective facts." Objective reality supercedes "perspective" every time.
 
barbos said:
zorq said:

Lies don't become true just because a sufficiently large number of people believe them. And atrocities don't become any less atrocious just because they were performed by a tribe you are sympathetic to.
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That's ironic thing for you to say.
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Are you going to admit that you were wrong to insist that there were no North Korean soldiers fighting for Russia? Will you admit that Western media was right and that whatever crappy resources you use to stay updated on this war are full of propaganda and garbage? Or are you a hypocrite?

I dare you to quote me defending an atrocity performed by "my side." I double dog dare you. Go ahead. Be my guest.
 
Video showing Russia is using civilian vehicles to transport troops to the front, suggesting that Russia is running short of military transports such as APVs.

 
zorq said:
Are you going to admit that you were wrong to insist that there were no North Korean soldiers fighting for Russia?
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The mistakes and outright lies are indistinguishable from each other.
Babs still doesn’t admit that Russia invaded Ukraine. (Actually he did admit it, briefly, but then the party propaganda line changed to “we didn’t invade” so babs changed his tune again.)
It must be hellish to be required to carry water for a dirtbag like Putin.
 
ZiprHead said:
Video showing Russia is using civilian vehicles to transport troops to the front, suggesting that Russia is running short of military transports such as APVs.

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Fucking bullshit. Both sides use pickup trucks there. There is literally no civilians let alone dumb ones there to drive their civilian vehicles.
Ukraine, on the other hand, is hiding their millitary equipment in civilian areas in big cities, specifically near schools and hospitals. So that in case of a strike they can claim " russian atrocities". On one occasion ammo dump blew up near a school, they claimed russian strike on a school. Then video leaked which showed no strike at all, just fire in some building near school and then detonation. Some drunk hohlo-nazi probably caused a fire in ammo dump near school.

The same story with "russian" missiles hitting apartment buildings. They are not russian, they are stupid american anti-aircraft missiles which lost targets. Character of damage which is minimal is a proof of that.
 
zorq said:
barbos said:
zorq said:

Lies don't become true just because a sufficiently large number of people believe them. And atrocities don't become any less atrocious just because they were performed by a tribe you are sympathetic to.
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That's ironic thing for you to say.
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Are you going to admit that you were wrong to insist that there were no North Korean soldiers fighting for Russia? Will you admit that Western media was right and that whatever crappy resources you use to stay updated on this war are full of propaganda and garbage? Or are you a hypocrite?

I dare you to quote me defending an atrocity performed by "my side." I double dog dare you. Go ahead. Be my guest.
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You defend atrocities by omission.
 
barbos said:
Harry Bosch said:
barbos said:
zorq said:
Are you going to admit that you were wrong to insist that there were no North Korean soldiers fighting for Russia?
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No, I will wait for you to admit being wrong about other numerous things which you were wrong about.
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So you do admit finally that North Korean troops are fighting for Russia against Ukraine?
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No, I don't admit that at all.
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Then I was right. You ARE calling Putin a liar. Why are you always trying to make Putin sound like such a stupid bitch?
 
zorq said:
barbos said:
Harry Bosch said:
barbos said:
zorq said:
Are you going to admit that you were wrong to insist that there were no North Korean soldiers fighting for Russia?
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No, I will wait for you to admit being wrong about other numerous things which you were wrong about.
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So you do admit finally that North Korean troops are fighting for Russia against Ukraine?
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No, I don't admit that at all.
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Then I was right. You ARE calling Putin a liar. Why are you always trying to make Putin sound like such a stupid bitch?
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One more time. North Koreans troops are not fighting for Russia against Ukraine.........
......
......
any longer.
 
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