Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

Calling out Israel for ethnic cleansing and genocide is not anti-semitic.

I also despise the word anti-Semitic, it's stupidly imprecise. What @DrZoidberg is calling out is the rampant anti-Zionism, which commonly spreads to anti-Jewish bigotry.

What you are doing is blaming the Israeli leadership for protecting their people from an implacably murderous attack. That's not ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Tom

Why do you think its just anti-zionism? That's not my impression.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So it's okay the Gazans are slaughtered?

What does that have to do with ridiculing a group of people for being useful idiots for a terrorist organization that'd just as soon kill them as look at them?

As to your question: of course not! But Gaza started this war, and they have it in their power to end it.
Hamas (which is the de facto government of Gaza) and allied terror groups (Islamic Jihad, Popular Resistance Committees and such) should have capitulated unconditionally a year ago. Then much suffering would have been spared the Gazan people.

Or at any point shift tactic and chose to live in peace with the Israelis. Israel is an inclusive modern western country. All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. They'll need to learn to live with being the equals of Jews. That is the entire problem in this conflict.

If you ignore the Israeli ethnic cleansing clique, you have a point.

That's the most antisemitic thing said in this thread

I have been warned about not calling it out in this thread and being banned. But I have a problem with antisemitism and racism. Unless the mods decide to stop protecting antisemities and racists you are going to have to ban me.

I'm not going to stop calling it out.

You have a problem with facts. There are Israelis , including those in the current gov’t, who advocate for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the region. Recognizing reality is a sign of rationality and sanity, not antisemitism.

You’ve made it abundantly clear you have mo problem flinging baseless accusations of antisemitism.

Any population has extremists. That's hardly why you brought it up.

No. I brought up to show the bias in your bigoted claim of "All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. "

That's the entirety of this conflict.

Its not bigoted. I'm just listening to what the Palestinians are saying.

"From the river to the sea" has a pretty clear message. But that’s just one example.

At this point I think its on the Palestinians to show any of them have any wish to live in peace

By bringing it up in this conflict you are impliying that they have any say in IDF actions. I think that is antisemitic

Extremist Israeli politicians saying extreme stuff on camera doesn't mean that is Israeli policy

Of course not. But when Israeli policy is consistent with some of their sayings, then perhaps it is Israeli policy. And if you think that those hard right Israeli racists agreed and stayed on in a government in order to have no influence on policy, well, you are even less knowledgable than you have already proven.

Again. I think that's racist clap trap. If you think that's what the IDF is doing then I think you are twisting facts to fit your bias

Those slanders supplement your bigoted anti-Arab tirades to give a more rounded picture of your position.

Lol. So your response to being called out for your racism is to call me a racist. Such a weak rebutle.

It is not a rebuttal - it is an observation which is consistent with the contents of your posts (see below for your most recent bigoted comment).

Good people can support evil things if they allow themselves to be manipulated.

Iron is truly lost on you,

hat's whats happening in the western press right now. So you are not alone

I'm not bigoted and I'm not anti Arab. I think the problem is what modern Islam has evolved to. Which makes normal Arabs lean towards extremism

The world's first openly gay Imam quickly got shot in the head. That's the kind of people we are dealing with

As pood pointed out "That's the kind of people we are dealing with" is consistent with bigotry.

If that's your argument then you have no argument

 

[TomC]

Calling out Israel for ethnic cleansing and genocide is not anti-semitic.

I also despise the word anti-Semitic, it's stupidly imprecise. What @DrZoidberg is calling out is the rampant anti-Zionism, which commonly spreads to anti-Jewish bigotry.

What you are doing is blaming the Israeli leadership for protecting their people from an implacably murderous attack. That's not ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Tom

Why do you think its just anti-zionism? That's not my impression.

One reason would be that many Palestinians are semitic.
But the real point is that this thread is about the conflict going on now, not necessarily every conflict involving Jews ever.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

No. I brought up to show the bias in your bigoted claim of "All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. "

That's the entirety of this conflict.

Its not bigoted. I'm just listening to what the Palestinians are saying.

“The Palestinians”? While ignoring or dismissing what Israel does or some of its gov’t officials say? Yeah, that’s not consistent with bigotry.

Of course not. But when Israeli policy is consistent with some of their sayings, then perhaps it is Israeli policy. And if you think that those hard right Israeli racists agreed and stayed on in a government in order to have no influence on policy, well, you are even less knowledgable than you have already proven.

Again. I think that's racist clap trap. If you think that's what the IDF is doing then I think you are twisting facts to fit your bias

Of course you feel that way. But it is lunacy to think that those bigots agreed to be only window- dressing for Netanhayu.

BTW, "Which makes normal Arabs lean towards extremism" doesn't help your "I'm not a bigot" narrative.

 

[pood]

By bringing it up in this conflict you are impliying that they have any say in IDF actions. I think that is antisemitic

Calling out Israel for ethnic cleansing and genocide is not anti-semitic.

I think it is. Its not ethnic cleansing or genocide.

Clearly, it is.

By using those words you are trying to change the narrative to frame Israel actions as unjustified

I am not changing the narrative. I am telling it as it is.

Not to mention that it dilutes the words. Ethnic cleansing and genocide is very serious.

Indeed.

Perhaps we should stick to using the words only where they apply?

That is why I am using them here.

But to go back to your vicious anti-semitism slur, let’s remember that Palestinians are Semites as well. That said, your vicious slur is no different than slurring those who opposed the Vietnam War as Communists, pinkos, or fellow travelers.

That's the kind of people we are dealing with

Stereotyping people or “kind of people” is the opposite of not being a racist.

No its not. It really isn't. You are inserting meaning that isn't there

No I am not.

We are dealing with individual terrorists or small groups of terrorists.

We are not dealing with small groups of terrorists

Hamas is well funded by a major state. I don’t understand how anyone can label Islamist terrorism as "small groups of terrorists"

Because that is what they are, compared to more than one billion Muslim people.

The vast majority of more than a billion Muslims desire the same thing as most everyone else, to live in peace.

Yes, of course.

So why do you make comments that suggests Muslims are terrorists? The vast majority are not.

The Palestinians are under deep provocation because Israel stole their land in 1948.

This hobby horse has been whipped to death. Just stop. Its not relevant

Having one’s land stolen is the central, most relevant issue of this entire conflict.

 

[pood]

Calling out Israel for ethnic cleansing and genocide is not anti-semitic.

I also despise the word anti-Semitic, it's stupidly imprecise. What @DrZoidberg is calling out is the rampant anti-Zionism, which commonly spreads to anti-Jewish bigotry.

What you are doing is blaming the Israeli leadership for protecting their people from an implacably murderous attack. That's not ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Tom

Except that is not what the Israeli leadership is doing. It is committing ethnic cleansing and genocide.

I’ve pointed out before the paradox that support for what Israel is doing produces. Far from protecting their people against future terror attacks, Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza is laying the seeds for untold numbers of future terrorists out for revenge against Israel. Or did you think that after Israel levels most of Gaze and starves and kills most of their population, the remaining Gazans, if any, will thank Israel as benefactors?

So the iron logic of your position amounts to this: To avoid future terror attacks, Israel must pretty much kill all Gazans or drive them into diaspora — the very epitome of war crimes. If they do not, after Gaza is rebuilt, there will be a hundred future terrorists for every terrorist Israel killed.

 

[pood]

This was written more than a year ago by an Israeli about the conflict. It must be borne in mind that many, many Israelis and Jews abroad deplore Netanyahu and his genocide.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So it's okay the Gazans are slaughtered?

What does that have to do with ridiculing a group of people for being useful idiots for a terrorist organization that'd just as soon kill them as look at them?

As to your question: of course not! But Gaza started this war, and they have it in their power to end it.
Hamas (which is the de facto government of Gaza) and allied terror groups (Islamic Jihad, Popular Resistance Committees and such) should have capitulated unconditionally a year ago. Then much suffering would have been spared the Gazan people.

Or at any point shift tactic and chose to live in peace with the Israelis. Israel is an inclusive modern western country. All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. They'll need to learn to live with being the equals of Jews. That is the entire problem in this conflict.

If you ignore the Israeli ethnic cleansing clique, you have a point.

That's the most antisemitic thing said in this thread

I have been warned about not calling it out in this thread and being banned. But I have a problem with antisemitism and racism. Unless the mods decide to stop protecting antisemities and racists you are going to have to ban me.

I'm not going to stop calling it out.

You have a problem with facts. There are Israelis , including those in the current gov’t, who advocate for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the region. Recognizing reality is a sign of rationality and sanity, not antisemitism.

You’ve made it abundantly clear you have mo problem flinging baseless accusations of antisemitism.

Any population has extremists. That's hardly why you brought it up.

No. I brought up to show the bias in your bigoted claim of "All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. "

What's bigoted about that? Yes, Muslims (and everybody else who wants to live in peace with their neighours) have to accept that they're not the master race. It's pretty fundamental to our interconnected post WW2 world. Muslims are struggling to join the modern world. A lot of them are trying. But Muslim culture still has a strong cultural current of imperialistic world domination (as was so common in the olden days). If this is news to you then you really need to read more.

I do agree - every population has its extremists.

By bringing it up in this conflict you are impliying that they have any say in IDF actions. I think that is antisemitic

Extremist Israeli politicians saying extreme stuff on camera doesn't mean that is Israeli policy

Of course not. But when Israeli policy is consistent with some of their sayings, then perhaps it is Israeli policy. And if you think that those hard right Israeli racists agreed and stayed on in a government in order to have no influence on policy, well, you are even less knowledgable than you have already proven.

You've already shown you are clueless by calling Israels actions genocide. So just stop.

Those slanders supplement your bigoted anti-Arab tirades to give a more rounded picture of your position.

Lol. So your response to being called out for your racism is to call me a racist. Such a weak rebutle.

It is not a rebuttal - it is an observation which is consistent with the contents of your posts (see below for your most recent bigoted comment).

Good people can support evil things if they allow themselves to be manipulated.

Iron is truly lost on you,

hat's whats happening in the western press right now. So you are not alone

I'm not bigoted and I'm not anti Arab. I think the problem is what modern Islam has evolved to. Which makes normal Arabs lean towards extremism

The world's first openly gay Imam quickly got shot in the head. That's the kind of people we are dealing with

As pood pointed out "That's the kind of people we are dealing with" is consistent with bigotry.

You're not making any sense.

I think you're too blinded by your hatred of Jews to be able to have a rational conversation about this. I see no point in continuing this conversation.

Good luck.

 

[DrZoidberg]

This was written more than a year ago by an Israeli about the conflict. It must be borne in mind that many, many Israelis and Jews abroad deplore Netanyahu and his genocide.

There's an old Jewish saying. "Two Jews, three opinions". There's a reason Jews have so many Nobel prizes. It's a culture that encourages intellectual plurality. They also have a tendency to suck at defending themselves and protecting their own rights. There's plenty of anti-zionist Jews, because they think that the Jewish identity is about being a marginalised group in a bigger majority culture. When it comes to opinions, Jews are all over the place.

The fact that you've found a Jew who thinks it's genocide doesn't prove that it is.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Calling out Israel for ethnic cleansing and genocide is not anti-semitic.

I also despise the word anti-Semitic, it's stupidly imprecise. What @DrZoidberg is calling out is the rampant anti-Zionism, which commonly spreads to anti-Jewish bigotry.

What you are doing is blaming the Israeli leadership for protecting their people from an implacably murderous attack. That's not ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Tom

Except that is not what the Israeli leadership is doing. It is committing ethnic cleansing and genocide.

I’ve pointed out before the paradox that support for what Israel is doing produces. Far from protecting their people against future terror attacks, Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza is laying the seeds for untold numbers of future terrorists out for revenge against Israel. Or did you think that after Israel levels most of Gaze and starves and kills most of their population, the remaining Gazans, if any, will thank Israel as benefactors?

So the iron logic of your position amounts to this: To avoid future terror attacks, Israel must pretty much kill all Gazans or drive them into diaspora — the very epitome of war crimes. If they do not, after Gaza is rebuilt, there will be a hundred future terrorists for every terrorist Israel killed.

You're talking like the Israeli's haven't tried your method for half a century already. It's not working.

Appeasing the Palestinians led to 7/10 attacks. So that strategy didn't work. Now they're trying another tactic.

Whenever given any change the Palestinians keep showing that they have no interest to live in peace with Jews. The Isreals can't go anywhere. So a better option now is to take control over Gaza and make sure the Palestinians can't organise another attack.

Yeah, it sucks.

I think the main obstacle for westerners to understand the conflict is that they can't be bothered to listen to what the Palestinians are saying. It's not pretty. We can discuss all day why or how this culture has evolved. But it led to stuff like ISIS and Al Qaeda. There's something seriously wrong with the Muslim mindset. I'm not saying all Muslims are evil (or whatever nonsense Laughing Dog was trying to imply I said). But there is something about Islam that creates this strain of behaviour and thinking. That's the problem in this conflict.

Another thing that I don't think westerners quite understand is that Hamas is still shooting rockets at Israeli forces. Still doing as much as they can to inflict harm on Israeli soldiers, partisan style. Still doing everything they can to blend in with civilians maximising Palestinian civilian casualities. Hamas can just stop doing that. Then it would be much easier for Israel to unsure Palestinian civilian safety.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Two Israeli embassy staffers shot dead in downtown Washington, lone suspect held
But when a couple Israelis get gunned down the world's suppose to mourn. Because their lives have so much more value than thousands of Palestinian children.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Two Israeli embassy staffers shot dead in downtown Washington, lone suspect held
But when a couple Israelis get gunned down the world's suppose to mourn. Because their lives have so much more value than thousands of Palestinian children.

There's a difference. These are random Jews around the world.

The Palestinians in Gaza are citizens of a country that declared war on Israel and uses it's own population as human shields.

Why wouldn’t take whatever extreme measure they need to take to get the hostages back? It's on the Gazan government to take responsibility for the safety of the Palestinian people. Do you think they’re doing that by keeping the hostages?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Two Israeli embassy staffers shot dead in downtown Washington, lone suspect held
But when a couple Israelis get gunned down the world's suppose to mourn. Because their lives have so much more value than thousands of Palestinian children.

There's a difference. These are random Jews around the world.

The Palestinians in Gaza are citizens of a country that declared war on Israel and uses it's own population as human shields.

Why wouldn’t take whatever extreme measure they need to take to get the hostages back? It's on the Gazan government to take responsibility for the safety of the Palestinian people. Do you think they’re doing that by keeping the hostages?

You appear to be justifying ineffective methods of getting the hostages back to get the hostages back. That seems quite ridiculous.

A: Look, we support these draconian methods because we want to get the hostages back.
B: These methods have been put in place for months and we haven't gotten an additional hostage released. There methods don't appear to be working.
A: You are being seduced by Hamas and the media, you anti-Semite!

 

[TomC]

Two Israeli embassy staffers shot dead in downtown Washington, lone suspect held
But when a couple Israelis get gunned down the world's suppose to mourn. Because their lives have so much more value than thousands of Palestinian children.

What a bigoted interpretation!
How about "Muslim terrorists violence spreads to US"?

Reports make it look more like another tragic incident of US gun violence brought about by mental illness, but who knows at this point.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

No. I brought up to show the bias in your bigoted claim of "All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. "

What's bigoted about that? ...

It is an untrue nasty generalization. Duh.

Of course not. But when Israeli policy is consistent with some of their sayings, then perhaps it is Israeli policy. And if you think that those hard right Israeli racists agreed and stayed on in a government in order to have no influence on policy, well, you are even less knowledgable than you have already proven.

You've already shown you are clueless by calling Israels actions genocide. So just stop.

You have a problem with facts. I didn't call it genocide. Just like observing that there is an Israeli clique that favors ethnic cleansing (something you acknowledge) is not anti-semitic. Because if it is, then since you acknowledged its validity, that makes you anti-semitic
I do agree that rational conversation with someone who is either incapable or unwilling to acknowledge facts is extremely difficult. But that responding to your noxious nonsense in the hope of seeing some sanity is a triumph of optimism over experience.

 

[laughing dog]

Two Israeli embassy staffers shot dead in downtown Washington, lone suspect held
But when a couple Israelis get gunned down the world's suppose to mourn. Because their lives have so much more value than thousands of Palestinian children.

What a bigoted interpretation!
How about "Muslim terrorists violence spreads to US"?

So you decide to give an even more bigoted interpretation?

 

[DrZoidberg]

This warms my heart. I still have hope there's enough Palestinians who want peace to kick Hamas out

This is also pretty major. Hamas does not tolerate Palestinian dissent. There's no free speech in Gaza. They have pretty brutal internal repression

Anti-Hamas protests in southern Gaza enter third day

Protesters were seen in videos calling for an end to the war and the removal of the armed group from Gaza

www.bbc.com

 

[pood]

So it's okay the Gazans are slaughtered?

What does that have to do with ridiculing a group of people for being useful idiots for a terrorist organization that'd just as soon kill them as look at them?

As to your question: of course not! But Gaza started this war, and they have it in their power to end it.
Hamas (which is the de facto government of Gaza) and allied terror groups (Islamic Jihad, Popular Resistance Committees and such) should have capitulated unconditionally a year ago. Then much suffering would have been spared the Gazan people.

Or at any point shift tactic and chose to live in peace with the Israelis. Israel is an inclusive modern western country. All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. They'll need to learn to live with being the equals of Jews. That is the entire problem in this conflict.

If you ignore the Israeli ethnic cleansing clique, you have a point.

That's the most antisemitic thing said in this thread

I have been warned about not calling it out in this thread and being banned. But I have a problem with antisemitism and racism. Unless the mods decide to stop protecting antisemities and racists you are going to have to ban me.

I'm not going to stop calling it out.

You have a problem with facts. There are Israelis , including those in the current gov’t, who advocate for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the region. Recognizing reality is a sign of rationality and sanity, not antisemitism.

You’ve made it abundantly clear you have mo problem flinging baseless accusations of antisemitism.

Any population has extremists. That's hardly why you brought it up.

No. I brought up to show the bias in your bigoted claim of "All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. "

What's bigoted about that?

Everything. Muslims do not think they are masters of the world, and you are stereotyping one billion people as univocal proponents of something they do not even advocate. It’s contemptible.

Yes, Muslims (and everybody else who wants to live in peace with their neighours) have to accept that they're not the master race.

Yes. Let’s start with the Anglo-Saxon West.

It's pretty fundamental to our interconnected post WW2 world. Muslims are struggling to join the modern world.

Muslims are struggling against xenophobic Western nativist imperialism and bigotry.

A lot of them are trying. But Muslim culture still has a strong cultural current of imperialistic world domination (as was so common in the olden days). If this is news to you then you really need to read more.

The thing you ascribed to Muslims is precisely what is the case with xenophobic Western nativist imperialism and bigotry. Let’s take the good old US of A, whose history includes slavery, Jim Crow, genocide against native Americans, brutal exploitation of Chinese labor, an imperialistic foreign policy beginning in the late 19th century, endless wars sinice World War II, military bases all over the world, and the current support for Israeli genocide against the Gazans you claim are trying to dominate the world when they are just trying to avoid being exterminated while trying to find a scrap of food every now and then and keep their children from starving in the face of xenophobic Western nativist imperialism with Israel as the current proxy for that.

I do agree - every population has its extremists.

By bringing it up in this conflict you are impliying that they have any say in IDF actions. I think that is antisemitic

Extremist Israeli politicians saying extreme stuff on camera doesn't mean that is Israeli policy

Of course not. But when Israeli policy is consistent with some of their sayings, then perhaps it is Israeli policy. And if you think that those hard right Israeli racists agreed and stayed on in a government in order to have no influence on policy, well, you are even less knowledgable than you have already proven.

You've already shown you are clueless by calling Israels actions genocide. So just stop.

Look in a mirror.

Those slanders supplement your bigoted anti-Arab tirades to give a more rounded picture of your position.

Lol. So your response to being called out for your racism is to call me a racist. Such a weak rebutle.

It is not a rebuttal - it is an observation which is consistent with the contents of your posts (see below for your most recent bigoted comment).

Good people can support evil things if they allow themselves to be manipulated.

Iron is truly lost on you,

hat's whats happening in the western press right now. So you are not alone

I'm not bigoted and I'm not anti Arab. I think the problem is what modern Islam has evolved to. Which makes normal Arabs lean towards extremism

The world's first openly gay Imam quickly got shot in the head. That's the kind of people we are dealing with

As pood pointed out "That's the kind of people we are dealing with" is consistent with bigotry.

You're not making any sense.

I think you're too blinded by your hatred of Jews

Please stop slurring people as anti-Semitic for opposing Israeli genocide against Gazans. No one here hates Jews. This latest slur will be reported.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Two Israeli embassy staffers shot dead in downtown Washington, lone suspect held
But when a couple Israelis get gunned down the world's suppose to mourn. Because their lives have so much more value than thousands of Palestinian children.

What a bigoted interpretation!
How about "Muslim terrorists violence spreads to US"?

Reports make it look more like another tragic incident of US gun violence brought about by mental illness, but who knows at this point.
Tom

The saying is generally, 2 deaths (or some low number) is a tragedy, 10,000 deaths (larger number) is a statistic. There is truth to that. We saw with Covid, we see it with Gaza.

Certainly premeditated murder, if this is what this is determined to be is a heinous crime, where as collateral loss of life is preventable but not intended. Two different things, that evoke different types of reactions. But a call of bigotry from you is clearly hyperbole.

 

[TomC]

You appear to be justifying ineffective methods of getting the hostages back to get the hostages back. That seems quite ridiculous.

The Palestinians in Gaza are citizens of a country that declared war on Israel and uses it's own population as human shields.

I wonder why Jimmy didn't respond to this, the main point of Zoid's post?
Probably because it's hard to strawman such an obvious reality.
Tom