Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[laughing dog]

You will never, in your lifetime, see a trans person with an obvious penis in a women's restroom

Bullshit. I've personally witness TWO "women" adjusting their bulges in the ladies restroom. I've seen a handful of other transgender identified males who were obviously and unambiguously male, and I'd give it 80% odds that they had dicks.

Because over 80% of transgender identified males keep their penises, and have no intention of getting it removed.

Do you have citation for that? IMO, those transwomen are not serious about their gender.

On the otherhand, if your statistic is accurate, IMO, the other 20% are probably serious about their gender.

 

[Politesse]

Intersex initially referred to

Where was it referred to in this way? By whom? I know you cannot mean by that the man, Richard Goldschmidt, who actually coined the term in its modern use. Your politics would never allow you to admit the work of an actual endocrinologist as valid, and his conclusions and definition most certainly did not cohere to yours in any case; the whole point of substituting "intersex" for "hermaphrodite" was that endocrinologists were starting to realize the severe limitations inherent in trying to assign sexual categories by gross anatomy alone.

 

[Emily Lake]

Sex and gender are two different things.

How your body was formed and what it can do is not the same thing as your identity. A father of two can have a female self identity. And they may have been "in the closet" about it for over 50 years because of their fears of rejection in a society that is hostile to transfolks.

So some men, really, really, believe that they are women.

Yeah, we know this.

But they’re not.

I really, really, really believe that I'm a progressive billionaire who is 6 feet tall. I really, truly, believe it.

If I had some way of testing your sincerity, via psychological screening, brain scans, or some other method, and it mattered for some reason, like I was deciding which prison you belong in, then I would be in favor of examining your claims in greater detail.**

But since I don't have psychic powers, testing would cost money, and I don't give a shit what you believe about yourself, then my response is "meh". Think what you like, identify as you wish, live and let live.

You can't get rid of sexism by enshrining it. Yes, there are differences between the sexes, and yes, they can affect important things like health care and careers, so we should be mindful of the differences and mitigate the negative social impacts as much as possible. But very little in our everyday lives needs to be about sex or gender. Most of it can be universal among human beings regardless of how they "present". I don't care which public restroom Conchita Wurst uses. I care that everyone in the restrooms is being polite and respectful towards each other.

It's not enshrining sexism to recognize that sex plays a vital and inescapable role in our lives, and to accommodate for it. And I think you're really seriously underestimating how much of our everyday lives is shaped by our sex. Not the stereotype bullshit, but actual things. At a minimum our physical existence is shaped by sex - how we walk is based on our sex. How we sit, how we move through life is determined by our bodies, and those are shaped by sex. Males and females are fundamentally physically different - we have different heights, different femur angles, different spinal shaping, different pelvises, different muscle attachment points, different proportions of muscle fibers, different elasticity in our tendons and ligaments, different elasticity and mobility in our internal organs. We have different illnesses, we metabolize drugs differently. There's a massive amount of every day that is very impacted by our sex.

**Not that I think billionaires should get special treatment in prison - y'all belong in the general population with the rest of us.

Totally agreed on that point

 

[Politesse]

Sperg? Do you mean the ableist slur, or am I missing something?

No idea what the “ableist slur” refers to, but it’s mocking the idea or a sex spectrum,

Between the sperm and the egg, there must be a sperg.

This is a well known reference.

Maybe in TERF circles. It's certainly not any sort of scientific term, and I'm sure the similarity to the slur "Sperg" aka short for Asperger's, is supposed to be part of the joke. Ha ha.

 

[seanie]

I meant the anti-trans bullshit lobby. Party is irrelevant. In the UK, I'm a republican (and proud of it, down with George!) but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Who has denied you any kind of a voice? Not only are you free to say whatever nonsense you like, you have the backing and open encouragement of some of the most powerful political forces on the planet. Pretending that you are somehow a persecuted minority is completely bonkers.

You miss the point.

The trans activist movement had a very much top down strategic approach. Persuade institutions, corporations, government bodies, that this was the progressive thing.

“No debate”.

Which is why they’re now fucked, because most people don’t agree with make rapists being sent to women’s prisons, or males competing in female sports.

Primarily because that’s fucking ridiculous.

 

[Emily Lake]

The post above is a nice, apt little demonstration of a rhetorical strategy common among TERFS, Anti-Vaxxers, Creationists, and other pseudoscience pushers, wherein one starts with a simple claim that no one actually disagrees with, but then piles on a spiral of increasingly implausible additions to it without offering any meaningful evidence to justify their gradual slide away from the materially demonstrable and towards a gleefully fictive world purely defined their ideological commitments.

Please show us a single example of a mammal or bird that has evolved a third sex. What gamete has their reproductive system evolved in tandem with? What does that reproductive system look like? How is that reproductive system defined, and what evolutionary role does that third sex play in reproduction for that species?

Until you can do this, kindly STFU with your pseudoscience dogma. Your imagined belief structure isn't reality.

Given that I have not claimed that "mammals and birds evolve third sexes", and I'm not aware that anyone has *, what relevance would such a proof have to our discussion?

* (unless one considers intersex conditions to be such, as I assume you do not, and that no amount of argumentation could ever make you agree with such a proposition)

Lol, fine. Show me a sperg then. And the reproductive system that has evolved in order to support the production of sperg.

Sex in anisogamous species is strictly binary. You coming in here to condescendingly assert that reality isn't real is getting really old. Especially since you can't seem to refrain from posting in a style that is snotty and rude and entirely lacks anything remotely resembling logic or reason.

Sperg? Do you mean the ableist slur, or am I missing something?

A sperg being the hybrid gamete that is somewhere in between a sperm and an egg. I have no idea what slur you mean.

You're certainly not establishing much of a baseline for a "polite posting style".

Only for some people. Particularly those who have established a very long history of being unremittingly uncivil toward me. There's only a few of them, but you're definitely one of them.

For the most part, I'm good with a modified tit-for-tat. I'll put up with a lot of assholery before I give up on being nice. I was nice and civil toward you for years before I finally got fed up enough to stop giving a fuck about your feelings.

 

[Emily Lake]

Really, urinals are unusable for 2 categories of unisex restroom clientele - women and the unabled. It seems an application of common sense to replace urinals with stalls to increase the availability to all.

I'll take the opposing view.

Think about it like self-service check out, or the express lane at the grocery store. If we end up with unisex restrooms, I think having at least a few urinals (depending on the number of facilities overall, of course) makes a lot of sense. Provide a partition, because some men are self-conscious too and I don't think men should be subjected to looky-loos either. But realistically I think the most efficient arrangement would be more stalls than in a typical male restroom, but still at least a couple of urinals. That lets bepenised people get in and out very fast, which keeps the whole thing moving at a better pace.

I'd still prefer single-sex restrooms with an available sole-user unisex/family room overall.

Urinals are not that much faster. Once partitions are placed between urinals, there is not much difference between urinals and stalls. I was just in a restroom with partitions for urinals, and they were spaced the same as the partitions for the "regular" stalls.

Fair point then.

 

[seanie]

Maybe in TERF circles. It's certainly not any sort of scientific term, and I'm sure the similarity to the slur "Sperg" aka short for Asperger's, is supposed to be part of the joke. Ha ha.

Five seconds on Goggle.

 

[Politesse]

The trans activist movement had a very much top down strategic approach. Persuade institutions, corporations, government bodies, that this was the progressive thing.

This whole bullshit thing has been pushed along by wave after wave of anti-trans legislation, in a very long line. The constant legislative pressure against trans people predates the term transgender. Or gender, for that matter. What "institutions, corporations, government bodies" are you even referring to?

 

[seanie]

 

[Emily Lake]

You will never, in your lifetime, see a trans person with an obvious penis in a women's restroom

Bullshit. I've personally witness TWO "women" adjusting their bulges in the ladies restroom. I've seen a handful of other transgender identified males who were obviously and unambiguously male, and I'd give it 80% odds that they had dicks.

Because over 80% of transgender identified males keep their penises, and have no intention of getting it removed.

Do you have citation for that? IMO, those transwomen are not serious about their gender.

On the otherhand, if your statistic is accurate, IMO, the other 20% are probably serious about their gender.

https://uvahealth.com/services/transgender/transgender-surgery-faqs​

How common is gender reassignment surgery?​

Gender reassignment (confirmation) surgery is more common in transgender men (42 to 54%) than transgender women (28%). Top (chest gender confirmation) surgery is performed approximately twice as often as bottom (genital) surgery. In studies that assessed transgender men and women as an aggregate, top surgery accounts for 8 to 25% and bottom surgery accounts for 4 to 13%.

Lots of males are quite happy to grow their own boobs, not so keen on lopping of their horns. And I rather agree that they're not particularly serious about their gender identity.

 

[seanie]

I’m not a liar, because of your ignorance.

 

[Emily Lake]

Sperg? Do you mean the ableist slur, or am I missing something?

No idea what the “ableist slur” refers to, but it’s mocking the idea or a sex spectrum,

Between the sperm and the egg, there must be a sperg.

This is a well known reference.

Maybe in TERF circles. It's certainly not any sort of scientific term

Of course it's not a scientific term, duh! It's a made up term, to go along with the made up spectrum of sex!

 

[Politesse]

It's not enshrining sexism to recognize that sex plays a vital and inescapable role in our lives, and to accommodate for it.

Using sex to discriminate between different classes of citizens, and assigning them different and unequal rights, is most certainly sexism. One of the most dangerous forms of sexism.

 

[Politesse]

View attachment 50985

So you didn't type in "sperg", you typed in your personal definition thereof, and got... a bunch of TERF and manosphere/alt-right websites and social media. Not exactly convincing, buddy.

 

[Emily Lake]

It's not enshrining sexism to recognize that sex plays a vital and inescapable role in our lives, and to accommodate for it.

Using sex to discriminate between different classes of citizens, and assigning them different and unequal rights, is most certainly sexism. One of the most dangerous forms of sexism.

I would say that it's rather unequal to give males who say magic words the right to look at nonconsenting women, or to expose themselves to nonconsenting women. I think you version of "equality" has the completely foreseeable outcome of making actual women (the female kind) effectively second class citizens with no right to reasonable boundaries or privacy from men, and it exposes women to a higher level of risk.

That you don't give a flying fuck about that is a different issue. It's clearly more important for you that some men get their feelings stroked than that women retain the right set boundaries about our own bodies.

 

[Emily Lake]

View attachment 50985

So you didn't type in "sperg", you typed in your personal definition thereof, and got... a bunch of TERF and manosphere/alt-right websites and social media. Not exactly convincing, buddy.

Oh do fuck off with your constant "terf alt-right" well poisoning bullshit.

 

[seanie]

Using sex to discriminate between different classes of citizens, and assigning them different and unequal rights, is most certainly sexism. One of the most dangerous forms of sexism.

So no single sex spaces at all?

No single sex prisons, changing rooms, showers, restrooms, sports, hospital wards, intimate care, rape crisis counselling services, not anything?

Good luck arguing that as a policy.

 

[seanie]

So you didn't type in "sperg", you typed in your personal definition thereof, and got... a bunch of TERF and manosphere/alt-right websites and social media. Not exactly convincing, buddy.

How on earth did you come to the conclusion that I typed in my “personal definition”?

I typed in three words, sperm, egg, and sperg, because I knew that would find the image that referenced the use of the term.

Your assumption it was about Aspergers was just in your own little head.

 

[seanie]

Given the context of the discussion, you must surely concede that “sperg” was used in reference to the meme about sex as a spectrum?

You can’t seriously contend the comment had anything to do with Asperger’s




(Though I appreciate being serious is not a significant concern for you.)