Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[pood]

Dictators need to fear the free world. Or we are fucked

Says the guy with the Kim Jong-il avatar.

 

[RVonse]

America Again Crawls on Its Belly for Israel and adds another war crime to its impressive 21st century list. What kind of unhinged nutbucket bombs a country that didn't attack us and then say "now is the time for peace."

This is NOT what I voted for.

 

[pood]

America Again Crawls on Its Belly for Israel and adds another war crime to its impressive 21st century list. What kind of unhinged nutbucket bombs a country that didn't attack us and then say "now is the time for peace."

This is NOT what I voted for.

So you voted for Trump, knowing full well that he was a serial liar, and you are surprised he lied again?

And you voted for him knowing full well that he walked away from the 2015 agreement with Iran, setting the stage for what he just did. And he ditched that pact only because Obama negotiated it.

 

[TomC]

This is NOT what I voted for.

Sorry dude, that is stupid and ignorant.
Every eligible voter either voted for Harris or Trump. Many of the votes for Trump were of the indirect sort, "Whoever wins.", an unfortunate but well known side effect of our antiquated system.

And a voter could credibly claim ignorance about Trump back in 2016. But that was a long time ago.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

What kind of unhinged nutbucket bombs a country that didn't attack us and then say "now is the time for peace."

The kind that got elected twice by the US voters including you,

We are all getting what you voted for, just not what you naively expected.

 

[southernhybrid]

Get off your high horse. Your moral stance would doom us all to be slaves under amoral authoritarian regimes. If the liberal regimes (ie pro democracy) aren't willing to fight for what we believe in we will lose it.

Hand wringing and clinging to impossibly high moral standards (which you are doing) would condemn us all to passivity and helplessness. Its not being a good person. Its being an enabler of evil

You talk like the U.S. during the War on Terror—saying we had to defend freedom, then torturing detainees, drone-striking weddings, and invading Iraq based on lies. That wasn’t strength. It was a moral collapse disguised as strategy.

Did we stop terrorism that way? No. We radicalized entire regions, destroyed our credibility, and made the world more dangerous. That’s the cost of “fighting evil” by abandoning principle.

Clinging to moral limits isn’t passivity—it’s what keeps democracies from becoming what they claim to fight. If you think we save civilization by bombing it into submission, you haven’t learned a thing from history.

NHC

Let's agree to disagree. I'd just prefer it if more in the west are willing to fight for our democratic freedoms.

Or as an Iranian friend said recently, right now Europe doesn't deserve its freedoms. We seem to prefer cruising on the work of our ancestors and whine pathetically about the state of the world.

Yes, some times interventions fail. That doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. Dictators need to fear the free world. Or we are fucked

How ironic. What free world are you referring to, when both Trump and Netanyahu are more like dictators then leaders of the free world? The so called free world is under attack from its own leaders. If these two can't be removed from their positions, we are fucked!

 

[ZiprHead]

It's Not Just Netanyahu. A Lot of Israelis Want Genocide, Too

Recent polling reveals that the ‘genocide fever’ in Israeli society has reached its logical conclusion: ‘If we can get rid of them all, why not?’

zeteo.com

Keep up the denial, Dr Z.

 

[Patooka]

This is NOT what I voted for.

You are getting exactly what you voted for. The problem I have is we are *all* getting what you voted for as well.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Get off your high horse. Your moral stance would doom us all to be slaves under amoral authoritarian regimes. If the liberal regimes (ie pro democracy) aren't willing to fight for what we believe in we will lose it.

Hand wringing and clinging to impossibly high moral standards (which you are doing) would condemn us all to passivity and helplessness. Its not being a good person. Its being an enabler of evil

You talk like the U.S. during the War on Terror—saying we had to defend freedom, then torturing detainees, drone-striking weddings, and invading Iraq based on lies. That wasn’t strength. It was a moral collapse disguised as strategy.

Did we stop terrorism that way? No. We radicalized entire regions, destroyed our credibility, and made the world more dangerous. That’s the cost of “fighting evil” by abandoning principle.

Clinging to moral limits isn’t passivity—it’s what keeps democracies from becoming what they claim to fight. If you think we save civilization by bombing it into submission, you haven’t learned a thing from history.

NHC

Let's agree to disagree. I'd just prefer it if more in the west are willing to fight for our democratic freedoms.

Or as an Iranian friend said recently, right now Europe doesn't deserve its freedoms. We seem to prefer cruising on the work of our ancestors and whine pathetically about the state of the world.

Yes, some times interventions fail. That doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. Dictators need to fear the free world. Or we are fucked

How ironic. What free world are you referring to, when both Trump and Netanyahu are more like dictators then leaders of the free world? The so called free world is under attack from its own leaders. If these two can't be removed from their positions, we are fucked!

I think this is the attitude my friend was talking about. I suggest you live a while in a dictatorship. I think you'll change your attitude real fucking fast.

If you feel safe to express your opinion on this forum, then you are privileged today.

Iran punishes people for things they say in private chats. Stuff vaguely critical of the regime. Having a private chat hidden from the government is illegal. If they catch an expat Iranian express something they don't like online, they'll punish the family

Trump and Netanyahu are not dictators. That's just ignorant.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's Not Just Netanyahu. A Lot of Israelis Want Genocide, Too

Recent polling reveals that the ‘genocide fever’ in Israeli society has reached its logical conclusion: ‘If we can get rid of them all, why not?’

zeteo.com

View attachment 51137


Keep up the denial, Dr Z.

It depends on how the questions are formulated. The Gazans have been so beligerent, for so long, any healthy functioning Jewish Israeli would want all of Gazans to just go away. But that's not a political stance. That's a feeling.

That doesn't mean they'll support genocide

The Gazan Palestinians are and have been extremely difficult neighbours. They're not innocent little victims. Behaviour like that will generate an emotional response in any healthy human

 

[DrZoidberg]

btw. If there are still those of you who are confused as to why Israel cut off foreign aid, here's the Israeli government explanation and motivation for it's actions.

https://govextra.gov.il/unrwa/unrwa/#:~:text=Throughout%20the%20current%20war%20and,or%20next%20to%20those%20facilities.

I'm not arguing for or against this (in this post). But Israel now treats UNRWA, not as a UN affiliate, but as a wing of Hamas. This of course troubles the UN, which doesn't like to be slandered in this way. Worth noting is that the UN isn't a paragon of goodness. It's made up of it's member countries. Some of which are brutal dictatorships. The UN are staffed by members from all it's members. It's wide open for abuse. Hamas' ability (well funded by Iran) to infiltrate UNRWA wouldn't require much effort. Israel argues, that this is what has been done.

 

[scombrid]

Get off your high horse. Your moral stance would doom us all to be slaves under amoral authoritarian regimes. If the liberal regimes (ie pro democracy) aren't willing to fight for what we believe in we will lose it.

Hand wringing and clinging to impossibly high moral standards (which you are doing) would condemn us all to passivity and helplessness. Its not being a good person. Its being an enabler of evil

You talk like the U.S. during the War on Terror—saying we had to defend freedom, then torturing detainees, drone-striking weddings, and invading Iraq based on lies. That wasn’t strength. It was a moral collapse disguised as strategy.

Did we stop terrorism that way? No. We radicalized entire regions, destroyed our credibility, and made the world more dangerous. That’s the cost of “fighting evil” by abandoning principle.

Clinging to moral limits isn’t passivity—it’s what keeps democracies from becoming what they claim to fight. If you think we save civilization by bombing it into submission, you haven’t learned a thing from history.

NHC

Let's agree to disagree. I'd just prefer it if more in the west are willing to fight for our democratic freedoms.

Or as an Iranian friend said recently, right now Europe doesn't deserve its freedoms. We seem to prefer cruising on the work of our ancestors and whine pathetically about the state of the world.

Yes, some times interventions fail. That doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. Dictators need to fear the free world. Or we are fucked

How ironic. What free world are you referring to, when both Trump and Netanyahu are more like dictators then leaders of the free world? The so called free world is under attack from its own leaders. If these two can't be removed from their positions, we are fucked!

I think this is the attitude my friend was talking about. I suggest you live a while in a dictatorship. I think you'll change your attitude real fucking fast.

If you feel safe to express your opinion on this forum, then you are privileged today.

Iran punishes people for things they say in private chats. Stuff vaguely critical of the regime. Having a private chat hidden from the government is illegal. If they catch an expat Iranian express something they don't like online, they'll punish the family

Trump and Netanyahu are not dictators. That's just ignorant.

The GOP wants to deny healthcare based on marital status, political affiliation, and gender. They are deporting people and imprisoning people without regard for actual status. I am muzzled as a state government employee. But hey, at least I’m not in Iran.

 

[ZiprHead]

It's Not Just Netanyahu. A Lot of Israelis Want Genocide, Too

Recent polling reveals that the ‘genocide fever’ in Israeli society has reached its logical conclusion: ‘If we can get rid of them all, why not?’

zeteo.com

View attachment 51137


Keep up the denial, Dr Z.

It depends on how the questions are formulated. The Gazans have been so beligerent, for so long, any healthy functioning Jewish Israeli would want all of Gazans to just go away. But that's not a political stance. That's a feeling.

That doesn't mean they'll support genocide

The Gazan Palestinians are and have been extremely difficult neighbours. They're not innocent little victims. Behaviour like that will generate an emotional response in any healthy human

Israelis: We want genocide.

Dr. Z: That doesn't mean they'll support genocide

The Jewish Israelis have been so beligerent, for so long, any healthy functioning Palestinian Israeli would want all of Jewish Israelis to just go away. But that's not a political stance. That's a feeling.

Hey! Works both ways.

 

[laughing dog]

It's Not Just Netanyahu. A Lot of Israelis Want Genocide, Too

Recent polling reveals that the ‘genocide fever’ in Israeli society has reached its logical conclusion: ‘If we can get rid of them all, why not?’

zeteo.com

View attachment 51137


Keep up the denial, Dr Z.

It depends on how the questions are formulated. The Gazans have been so beligerent, for so long, any healthy functioning Jewish Israeli would want all of Gazans to just go away. But that's not a political stance. That's a feeling.

That doesn't mean they'll support genocide

The Gazan Palestinians are and have been extremely difficult neighbours. They're not innocent little victims. Behaviour like that will generate an emotional response in any healthy human

I agree. But when the same general sort of polling results from Palestinian respondents are reported, it is taken as proof of their intractable hatred and irrationality.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Get off your high horse. Your moral stance would doom us all to be slaves under amoral authoritarian regimes. If the liberal regimes (ie pro democracy) aren't willing to fight for what we believe in we will lose it.

Hand wringing and clinging to impossibly high moral standards (which you are doing) would condemn us all to passivity and helplessness. Its not being a good person. Its being an enabler of evil

You talk like the U.S. during the War on Terror—saying we had to defend freedom, then torturing detainees, drone-striking weddings, and invading Iraq based on lies. That wasn’t strength. It was a moral collapse disguised as strategy.

Did we stop terrorism that way? No. We radicalized entire regions, destroyed our credibility, and made the world more dangerous. That’s the cost of “fighting evil” by abandoning principle.

Clinging to moral limits isn’t passivity—it’s what keeps democracies from becoming what they claim to fight. If you think we save civilization by bombing it into submission, you haven’t learned a thing from history.

NHC

Let's agree to disagree. I'd just prefer it if more in the west are willing to fight for our democratic freedoms.

Or as an Iranian friend said recently, right now Europe doesn't deserve its freedoms. We seem to prefer cruising on the work of our ancestors and whine pathetically about the state of the world.

Yes, some times interventions fail. That doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. Dictators need to fear the free world. Or we are fucked

How ironic. What free world are you referring to, when both Trump and Netanyahu are more like dictators then leaders of the free world? The so called free world is under attack from its own leaders. If these two can't be removed from their positions, we are fucked!

I think this is the attitude my friend was talking about. I suggest you live a while in a dictatorship. I think you'll change your attitude real fucking fast.

If you feel safe to express your opinion on this forum, then you are privileged today.

Iran punishes people for things they say in private chats. Stuff vaguely critical of the regime. Having a private chat hidden from the government is illegal. If they catch an expat Iranian express something they don't like online, they'll punish the family

Trump and Netanyahu are not dictators. That's just ignorant.

The GOP wants to deny healthcare based on marital status, political affiliation, and gender. They are deporting people and imprisoning people without regard for actual status. I am muzzled as a state government employee. But hey, at least I’m not in Iran.

And let us all who don't live there be grateful for it. You sound ungrateful for the rights you have.

The moment we stop being grateful for the freedoms we have, why would anyone make an effort to protect them for us?

Any society has to make rules for how health care is distributed. That's not oppression. That's the reality of having finite resources. You can influence it by voting. Which actually works. Trump won the election, and by the sound of it, delivered on his campaign promises. That's a democratic system when it's working.

If Trump would have won, but was forced to give healthcare according to how Democrats like it, that would be an example of a failed democracy

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's Not Just Netanyahu. A Lot of Israelis Want Genocide, Too

Recent polling reveals that the ‘genocide fever’ in Israeli society has reached its logical conclusion: ‘If we can get rid of them all, why not?’

zeteo.com

View attachment 51137


Keep up the denial, Dr Z.

It depends on how the questions are formulated. The Gazans have been so beligerent, for so long, any healthy functioning Jewish Israeli would want all of Gazans to just go away. But that's not a political stance. That's a feeling.

That doesn't mean they'll support genocide

The Gazan Palestinians are and have been extremely difficult neighbours. They're not innocent little victims. Behaviour like that will generate an emotional response in any healthy human

I agree. But when the same general sort of polling results from Palestinian respondents are reported, it is taken as proof of their intractable hatred and irrationality.

So we're agreed that polls like that are basically worthless.

Fun fact, Muslims are pretty much honor bound to demand the destruction of Israel. But its just something they feel they have to say. A Muslim saying "death to Israel" doesn't mean, they actually hold that opinion. They might. But not necessarily

 

[laughing dog]

The moment we stop being grateful for the freedoms we have, why would anyone make an effort to protect them for us?

People protect their rights.

If Trump would have won, but was forced to give healthcare according to how Democrats like it, that would be an example of a failed democracy

Nonsense. Trump did not get more than half the cast votes. The only way Trump could be forced to sign into law (outside of a tape from an Epstein orgy or Rusdian hotel room) a Democrat preferred healthcare bill is if the bill was passed a veto proof majority in the House of Representatives and jn the Senate - successful democracy in action.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's Not Just Netanyahu. A Lot of Israelis Want Genocide, Too

Recent polling reveals that the ‘genocide fever’ in Israeli society has reached its logical conclusion: ‘If we can get rid of them all, why not?’

zeteo.com

View attachment 51137


Keep up the denial, Dr Z.

It depends on how the questions are formulated. The Gazans have been so beligerent, for so long, any healthy functioning Jewish Israeli would want all of Gazans to just go away. But that's not a political stance. That's a feeling.

That doesn't mean they'll support genocide

The Gazan Palestinians are and have been extremely difficult neighbours. They're not innocent little victims. Behaviour like that will generate an emotional response in any healthy human

Israelis: We want genocide.

Dr. Z: That doesn't mean they'll support genocide

The Jewish Israelis have been so beligerent, for so long, any healthy functioning Palestinian Israeli would want all of Jewish Israelis to just go away. But that's not a political stance. That's a feeling.

Hey! Works both ways.

Exactly

 

[DrZoidberg]

The moment we stop being grateful for the freedoms we have, why would anyone make an effort to protect them for us?

People protect their rights.

If Trump would have won, but was forced to give healthcare according to how Democrats like it, that would be an example of a failed democracy

Nonsense. Trump did not get more than half the cast votes. The only way Trump could be forced to sign into law (outside of a tape from an Epstein orgy or Rusdian hotel room) a Democrat preferred healthcare bill is if the bill was passed a veto proof majority in the House of Representatives and jn the Senate - successful democracy in action.

In any democratic system votes are usually weighted in various ways, to make sure one group can't dominate the parliament. That doesn't make it undemocratic. If I recall correctly, the current US vote weighting has something to with the civil war, and avoiding another one of those.

The democracy in USA works as intended. It's fine.

The American system has loads of ingenious checks and balances, to curtail abuses of power. I think its great.

There's no democratic system that is perfect

 

[TomC]

In any democratic system votes are usually weighted in various ways, to make sure one group can't dominate the parliament. That doesn't make it undemocratic. If I recall correctly, the current US vote weighting has something to with the civil war, and avoiding another one of those.

The democracy in USA works as intended. It's fine.

The American system has loads of ingenious checks and balances, to curtail abuses of power. I think its great.

There's no democratic system that is perfect

I don't want to derail this thread. Trying to explain why you are profoundly wrong (aside from the last sentence) would be tedious and irrelevant.
But your understanding of the USA political landscape and system is bizarrely mistaken.
Tom