Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

Anyway What does the State of Israel stand for? At its core, Israel defines itself as a Jewish and democratic state. That’s laid out clearly in its 1948 Declaration of Independence, which speaks of equality for all its citizens, regardless of religion, race, or sex. It also pledges freedom of religion, conscience, language, education, and culture.

In practice, what Israel stands for has evolved with its elected governments, some emphasizing security, others human rights, some leaning more secular, others religious. But the foundational idea remains: a national homeland for the Jewish people that also upholds democratic principles and civil rights.

That’s not a fantasy or talking point, it’s a documented self-definition. Whether or not its actions always live up to that ideal is fair to debate. But if we’re going to criticize or support a state, it should be based on what it claims to be and how well it lives up to that claim, not on what any of us emotionally want it to represent. Just like the white supremacy you claim it's enforcing, something I don’t agree with, and you go and grab a Jew to wedge between my criticism and yourself like a certified pussy.

If you think that makes Israel a supremacist state... you are s loony imho

 

[Gospel]

Anyway What does the State of Israel stand for? At its core, Israel defines itself as a Jewish and democratic state. That’s laid out clearly in its 1948 Declaration of Independence, which speaks of equality for all its citizens, regardless of religion, race, or sex. It also pledges freedom of religion, conscience, language, education, and culture.

In practice, what Israel stands for has evolved with its elected governments, some emphasizing security, others human rights, some leaning more secular, others religious. But the foundational idea remains: a national homeland for the Jewish people that also upholds democratic principles and civil rights.

That’s not a fantasy or talking point, it’s a documented self-definition. Whether or not its actions always live up to that ideal is fair to debate. But if we’re going to criticize or support a state, it should be based on what it claims to be and how well it lives up to that claim, not on what any of us emotionally want it to represent. Just like the white supremacy you claim it's enforcing, something I don’t agree with, and you go and grab a Jew to wedge between my criticism and yourself like a certified pussy.

If you think that makes Israel a supremacist state... you are s loony imho

I never said Israel is a supremacist state. I said you’re using it as a human shield to protect your supremacist rhetoric from criticism. That’s the part you keep dodging. My critique is about you, your framing, your logic, your selective outrage, not the Israeli state itself. So don’t twist the conversation into something it’s not just to dodge the verbal beatdown you rightfully deserve, you cowardly white supremacist.

 

[DrZoidberg]

When Israel treated the Palestinians who didn't run with respect, the Muslims didn't really know what to do about it. The assumption is all the time that Palestinians in Israel are opressed somehow. They're really not. And never were. They live normal lives in Israel, just like the Jews

A bunch of Islamic supremacy apologists don't seem to realize this.

There are nearly as many Muslim citizens of Israel as there are Gazans. Muslims who enjoy as much peace and prosperity as the other Israeli civilians. According to Wikipedia, Israel has a population of over 10 million. Almost 20% are Muslims. That's about 1.9 million people, Gaza has population just over 2 million.
Tom

And those Palestinians are.. in general... extremely happy to be ruled by Jews.

Why? Because they are the safest and most affluent Palestinians anywhere. And they know it. Living in Israel has given them opportunitys they don't have outside. But they can't say it publicly. Publicly they have to sing along to the Islamofascist song.

Islam is a culture of theatre. They say one thing and often do another.

Mothers publicly applaud Muslim fanatics while forbidding their daughters from dating them.

Islam is as strange as it is dysfunctional in a modern democratic world.

Yes, if course it will evolve, adapt and become modern. Eventually

 

[Gospel]

When Israel treated the Palestinians who didn't run with respect, the Muslims didn't really know what to do about it. The assumption is all the time that Palestinians in Israel are opressed somehow. They're really not. And never were. They live normal lives in Israel, just like the Jews

A bunch of Islamic supremacy apologists don't seem to realize this.

There are nearly as many Muslim citizens of Israel as there are Gazans. Muslims who enjoy as much peace and prosperity as the other Israeli civilians. According to Wikipedia, Israel has a population of over 10 million. Almost 20% are Muslims. That's about 1.9 million people, Gaza has population just over 2 million.
Tom

And those Palestinians are.. in general... extremely happy to be ruled by Jews.

Why? Because they are the safest and most affluent Palestinians anywhere. And they know it. Living in Israel has given them opportunitys they don't have outside. But they can't say it publicly. Publicly they have to sing along to the Islamofascist song.

Islam is a culture of theatre. They say one thing and often do another.

Mothers publicly applaud Muslim fanatics while forbidding their daughters from dating them.

Islam is as strange as it is dysfunctional in a modern democratic world.

Yes, if course it will evolve, adapt and become modern. Eventually

And those Black folks… generally speaking… are lucky to be ruled by whites.

Why? Because they’re safer, richer, and better off than anywhere else in the world. And deep down, they know it. Living in a white-majority country gives them opportunities they wouldn't have elsewhere. But they can’t say that publicly, they’re forced to parrot that anti-white activist narrative.

Black culture? It’s all performance. They say one thing and do another.

Mothers cheer on militant slogans at rallies but won't let their daughters near those same thugs.

Black society just doesn’t function well in a modern democratic system.

Sure, maybe they'll evolve and modernize one day, but who knows when.

Yup, white supremacy bullshit.

 

[Gospel]

Just because you're aiming white supremacist rhetoric at a different group instead of Black people doesn’t make it any less white supremacy.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Anyway What does the State of Israel stand for? At its core, Israel defines itself as a Jewish and democratic state. That’s laid out clearly in its 1948 Declaration of Independence, which speaks of equality for all its citizens, regardless of religion, race, or sex. It also pledges freedom of religion, conscience, language, education, and culture.

In practice, what Israel stands for has evolved with its elected governments, some emphasizing security, others human rights, some leaning more secular, others religious. But the foundational idea remains: a national homeland for the Jewish people that also upholds democratic principles and civil rights.

That’s not a fantasy or talking point, it’s a documented self-definition. Whether or not its actions always live up to that ideal is fair to debate. But if we’re going to criticize or support a state, it should be based on what it claims to be and how well it lives up to that claim, not on what any of us emotionally want it to represent. Just like the white supremacy you claim it's enforcing, something I don’t agree with, and you go and grab a Jew to wedge between my criticism and yourself like a certified pussy.

If you think that makes Israel a supremacist state... you are s loony imho

I never said Israel is a supremacist state. I said you’re using it as a human shield to protect your supremacist rhetoric from criticism. That’s the part you keep dodging. My critique is about you, your framing, your logic, your selective outrage, not the Israeli state itself. So don’t twist the conversation into something it’s not just to dodge the verbal beatdown you rightfully deserve, you cowardly white supremacist.

Ha ha. So now I'm the Nazi? Its hard to keep up with your delusions.

That's an interesting take

 

[DrZoidberg]

When Israel treated the Palestinians who didn't run with respect, the Muslims didn't really know what to do about it. The assumption is all the time that Palestinians in Israel are opressed somehow. They're really not. And never were. They live normal lives in Israel, just like the Jews

A bunch of Islamic supremacy apologists don't seem to realize this.

There are nearly as many Muslim citizens of Israel as there are Gazans. Muslims who enjoy as much peace and prosperity as the other Israeli civilians. According to Wikipedia, Israel has a population of over 10 million. Almost 20% are Muslims. That's about 1.9 million people, Gaza has population just over 2 million.
Tom

And those Palestinians are.. in general... extremely happy to be ruled by Jews.

Why? Because they are the safest and most affluent Palestinians anywhere. And they know it. Living in Israel has given them opportunitys they don't have outside. But they can't say it publicly. Publicly they have to sing along to the Islamofascist song.

Islam is a culture of theatre. They say one thing and often do another.

Mothers publicly applaud Muslim fanatics while forbidding their daughters from dating them.

Islam is as strange as it is dysfunctional in a modern democratic world.

Yes, if course it will evolve, adapt and become modern. Eventually

And those Black folks… generally speaking… are lucky to be ruled by whites.

Why? Because they’re safer, richer, and better off than anywhere else in the world. And deep down, they know it. Living in a white-majority country gives them opportunities they wouldn't have elsewhere. But they can’t say that publicly, they’re forced to parrot that anti-white activist narrative.

Black culture? It’s all performance. They say one thing and do another.

Mothers cheer on militant slogans at rallies but won't let their daughters near those same thugs.

Black society just doesn’t function well in a modern democratic system.

Sure, maybe they'll evolve and modernize one day, but who knows when.

Yup, white supremacy bullshit.

This is just the good ol' leftist brownsmearing of anything that doesn't fit your Silverlake fantasy of what other people should be.

The problem is that it's disengaged from reality.

Palestinians aren't the tokens of western leftist. They have their own hopes, dreams, values and aspirations. But that is perhaps hard to grasp for you?

The leftist habit of projecting leftist values onto Palestinians is racist. Its reducing a people to nothing but empty vessels western leftists can shape into their perfect victim. But God forbid that Palestinian opens their mouth. But that's not a problem, because western leftists don't listen to Palestinians anyway. No matter what the Palestinians say, the western leftist knew what they meant. Its patronising and racist. Palestinians are real humans

 

[TomC]

I find it stunningly ignorant that an American can compare 7 million Jews (living in the only safe refuge on the planet) to white supremacy in the USA!
Israel has about 2 million Muslim citizens. The Muslim countries around it, who have been attacking Israel for generations, have a combined population of about 150 million. That's before you add in 90 million Iranians. Or the Iraqis or Saudis or Turks...

But somehow, Israeli citizens are cast as the oppressive supremacists because they defend themselves against violent Muslim terrorists!
WTF?
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I didn’t call you a Nazi. I said your rhetoric mirrors white supremacist tactics, shifting blame, flattening nuance, and hiding behind a group identity to justify selective outrage and dehumanization. That’s not a delusion, that’s a pattern. You’re not defending Israel, you're defending your own worldview, and when that gets called out you....

Ha ha. So now I'm the Nazi? Its hard to keep up with your delusions.

That's an interesting take

Post nonsense.

 

[Gospel]

I find it stunningly ignorant that an American can compare 7 million Jews (living in the only safe refuge on the planet) to white supremacy in the USA!
Israel has about 2 million Muslim citizens. The Muslim countries around it, who have been attacking Israel for generations, have a combined population of about 150 million. That's before you add in 90 million Iranians. Or the Iraqis or Saudis or Turks...

But somehow, Israeli citizens are cast as the oppressive supremacists because they defend themselves against violent Muslim terrorists!
WTF?
Tom

No, Tom, what’s stunningly ignorant is pretending that criticizing supremacist rhetoric is the same as attacking 7 million Jews. Nobody compared Israel to white supremacy , I said DrZoidberg’s framing mirrors white supremacist logic: blaming an entire population for violence, dehumanizing cultural generalizations, and demanding submission as a prerequisite for being treated humanely.

Israel’s existence isn’t under attack in this conversation. Your ability to recognize when someone is using its name to shield themselves from critique? That’s what’s failing. Learn to separate defending Israel from defending supremacist rhetoric dressed in its flag

 

[Gospel]

Anyway What does the State of Israel stand for? At its core, Israel defines itself as a Jewish and democratic state. That’s laid out clearly in its 1948 Declaration of Independence, which speaks of equality for all its citizens, regardless of religion, race, or sex. It also pledges freedom of religion, conscience, language, education, and culture.

In practice, what Israel stands for has evolved with its elected governments, some emphasizing security, others human rights, some leaning more secular, others religious. But the foundational idea remains: a national homeland for the Jewish people that also upholds democratic principles and civil rights.

That’s not a fantasy or talking point, it’s a documented self-definition. Whether or not its actions always live up to that ideal is fair to debate. But if we’re going to criticize or support a state, it should be based on what it claims to be and how well it lives up to that claim, not on what any of us emotionally want it to represent. Just like the white supremacy you claim it's enforcing, something I don’t agree with, and you go and grab a Jew to wedge between my criticism and yourself like a certified pussy.

Oh look… when I was asked what Israel stands for, I clearly didn’t say it represents white supremacy. But I guess it’s fair game on this forum to misrepresent someone’s words, just not okay to call out the fact that they’re flat-out lying.

 

[Gospel]

But somehow, Israeli citizens are cast as the oppressive supremacists because they defend themselves against violent Muslim terrorists!
WTF?
Tom

Lt me address this specifically. That really depends on what you mean by 'Muslim terrorists.' If you’re talking about Hamas, sure, I'm all for Isreal whiping them off the face of the earth. But if you’re lumping in children who weren’t even alive when Hamas took control and have lived under its rule ever since, then no. That’s where I draw the line. But hey, you do you, Tomc.

For the ten-thousandth time, Israel isn’t the one making the statements you keep spouting, you know, the ones that lump all civilians in as enemy combatants. So stop putting words in Israel’s mouth to justify your own bullshit.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Fun anecdote. In 2010 we made friends with a black South African businessesman staying at the same Mumbai hotel. He wanted Apartheid back. He said he did better business then. He thought the blacks had ruined South Africa.

My western ideologicaly bathed brain almost had a seizure trying to figure out how to continue that conversation the rest of the dinner.

Reality rarely fits nicely into simplistic western political narratives. Its always more complicated on the ground.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I find it stunningly ignorant that an American can compare 7 million Jews (living in the only safe refuge on the planet) to white supremacy in the USA!
Israel has about 2 million Muslim citizens. The Muslim countries around it, who have been attacking Israel for generations, have a combined population of about 150 million. That's before you add in 90 million Iranians. Or the Iraqis or Saudis or Turks...

But somehow, Israeli citizens are cast as the oppressive supremacists because they defend themselves against violent Muslim terrorists!
WTF?
Tom

No, Tom, what’s stunningly ignorant is pretending that criticizing supremacist rhetoric is the same as attacking 7 million Jews. Nobody compared Israel to white supremacy , I said DrZoidberg’s framing mirrors white supremacist logic: blaming an entire population for violence, dehumanizing cultural generalizations, and demanding submission as a prerequisite for being treated humanely.

Israel’s existence isn’t under attack in this conversation. Your ability to recognize when someone is using its name to shield themselves from critique? That’s what’s failing. Learn to separate defending Israel from defending supremacist rhetoric dressed in its flag

I doubt anyone understands and agrees with your distinctions.

In Sweden our expression for this is, "you have let your cow wander onto the ice".

 

[DrZoidberg]

But somehow, Israeli citizens are cast as the oppressive supremacists because they defend themselves against violent Muslim terrorists!
WTF?
Tom

Lt me address this specifically. That really depends on what you mean by 'Muslim terrorists.' If you’re talking about Hamas, sure, I'm all for Isreal whiping them off the face of the earth. But if you’re lumping in children who weren’t even alive when Hamas took control and have lived under its rule ever since, then no. That’s where I draw the line. But hey, you do you, Tomc.

For the ten-thousandth time, Israel isn’t the one making the statements you keep spouting, you know, the ones that lump all civilians in as enemy combatants. So stop putting words in Israel’s mouth to justify your own bullshit.

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

 

[Gospel]

Fun anecdote. In 2010 we made friends with a black South African businessesman staying at the same Mumbai hotel. He wanted Apartheid back. He said he did better business then. He thought the blacks had ruined South Africa.

My western ideologicaly bathed brain almost had a seizure trying to figure out how to continue that conversation the rest of the dinner.

Reality rarely fits nicely into simplistic western political narratives. Its always more complicated on the ground.

Sounds good, but it would’ve been better if you’d run a poll instead of drawing that conclusion based on a single person’s input.

 

[TomC]

I doubt anyone understands and agrees with your distinctions.

Sadly, lots of Americans do agree.
Understand is a bit different.

But yeah, there are a bunch of Islamic supremacy apologists in this country, he is not unique.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I find it stunningly ignorant that an American can compare 7 million Jews (living in the only safe refuge on the planet) to white supremacy in the USA!
Israel has about 2 million Muslim citizens. The Muslim countries around it, who have been attacking Israel for generations, have a combined population of about 150 million. That's before you add in 90 million Iranians. Or the Iraqis or Saudis or Turks...

But somehow, Israeli citizens are cast as the oppressive supremacists because they defend themselves against violent Muslim terrorists!
WTF?
Tom

No, Tom, what’s stunningly ignorant is pretending that criticizing supremacist rhetoric is the same as attacking 7 million Jews. Nobody compared Israel to white supremacy , I said DrZoidberg’s framing mirrors white supremacist logic: blaming an entire population for violence, dehumanizing cultural generalizations, and demanding submission as a prerequisite for being treated humanely.

Israel’s existence isn’t under attack in this conversation. Your ability to recognize when someone is using its name to shield themselves from critique? That’s what’s failing. Learn to separate defending Israel from defending supremacist rhetoric dressed in its flag

I doubt anyone understands and agrees with your distinctions.

In Sweden our expression for this is, "you have let your cow wander onto the ice".

Ah, the old 'nobody agrees with you so you must be wrong' deflection. Classic. In America, we call that avoiding the argument because it hits too close to home. The distinctions I made are clear: I criticized your rhetoric, not Israel, not Jews, not Israelis. Deal with it.

 

[TomC]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

He does that a lot. It's why I don't respond to his posts anymore.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I doubt anyone understands and agrees with your distinctions.

Sadly, lots of Americans do agree.
Understand is a bit different.

But yeah, there are a bunch of Islamic supremacy apologists in this country, he is not unique.
Tom

Can you actually elaborate on that? I’d love to know how you concluded that I’m an apologist for Islamic supremacy. You can’t, because it’s a lie. Just say you don’t like being challenged and move on.