Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Gospel]

But somehow, Israeli citizens are cast as the oppressive supremacists because they defend themselves against violent Muslim terrorists!
WTF?
Tom

Lt me address this specifically. That really depends on what you mean by 'Muslim terrorists.' If you’re talking about Hamas, sure, I'm all for Isreal whiping them off the face of the earth. But if you’re lumping in children who weren’t even alive when Hamas took control and have lived under its rule ever since, then no. That’s where I draw the line. But hey, you do you, Tomc.

For the ten-thousandth time, Israel isn’t the one making the statements you keep spouting, you know, the ones that lump all civilians in as enemy combatants. So stop putting words in Israel’s mouth to justify your own bullshit.

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I left it to TomC to define what he meant. But you just couldn’t resist twisting it into a lie. You really do have a talent for dishonesty, don’t you?

 

[Gospel]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

He does that a lot. It's why I don't respond to his posts anymore.
Tom

Cowards dodge direct engagement when they're confronted with a challenge.

 

[bilby]

I think I am going to start calling you a Neo Nazi. No reason. But you have no reason to call me white supremacist.. so I might as well.

Some folks really don't see their own hypocrisy at all, even when it is pointed out in an incredibly unsubtle way.

You started this name-calling by accusing anyone who disagreed with you of being antisemitic. Now you are all butthurt, because you are seeing the other side of the same tactic.

I applaud @Gospel for his sucess in laying an obvious rhetorical trap into which you have blundered so mindlessly.

Goose sauce is gander sauce.

 

[laughing dog]

Under normal conditions the actions of the soldier who fired would be in the insane category. But everyone on the Israeli side seems to regard it as an understandable mistake--which only makes sense if this was a rare real one amongst a sea of fakes. In other situations Israel has definitely condemned misdeeds, so it's not a coverup.

Translation:

"It's not a coverup; We know this from the fact that the people who might be covering it up, and their allies and supporters, all seem to think it's fine and dandy".

The point is they have a history of admitting when their people fuck up. Your argument would be valid if they had a history of covering things up, but they don't.

How would anyone know about successful coverups? They have a history of unsuccessful coverups because they only admit fuckups when they are caught.

Coverups don't last forever.

Even if that were true, they can outlast generations. Of course, there is no way to test this empirically.

 

[TomC]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I'd ask the staff why gospel gets away with all the lies and slurs and such,
But I am confident that I already know why.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I'd ask the staff why gospel gets away with all the lies and slurs and such,
But I am confident that I already know why.
Tom

Really, please share, because I would bet your confidence is misplaced.

 

[TomC]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I'd ask the staff why gospel gets away with all the lies and slurs and such,
But I am confident that I already know why.
Tom

Really, please share, because I would bet your confidence is misplaced.

It would be a TOU violation to be honest without staff permission.
That's why I don't respond to Gospel anymore.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

When Israel treated the Palestinians who didn't run with respect, the Muslims didn't really know what to do about it. The assumption is all the time that Palestinians in Israel are opressed somehow. They're really not. And never were. They live normal lives in Israel, just like the Jews

A bunch of Islamic supremacy apologists don't seem to realize this.

There are nearly as many Muslim citizens of Israel as there are Gazans. Muslims who enjoy as much peace and prosperity as the other Israeli civilians. According to Wikipedia, Israel has a population of over 10 million. Almost 20% are Muslims. That's about 1.9 million people, Gaza has population just over 2 million.
Tom

And those Palestinians are.. in general... extremely happy to be ruled by Jews.

Why? Because they are the safest and most affluent Palestinians anywhere. And they know it. Living in Israel has given them opportunitys they don't have outside. But they can't say it publicly. Publicly they have to sing along to the Islamofascist song.

Islam is a culture of theatre. They say one thing and often do another.

Mothers publicly applaud Muslim fanatics while forbidding their daughters from dating them.

Islam is as strange as it is dysfunctional in a modern democratic world.

Yes, if course it will evolve, adapt and become modern. Eventually

And those Black folks… generally speaking… are lucky to be ruled by whites.

Why? Because they’re safer, richer, and better off than anywhere else in the world. And deep down, they know it. Living in a white-majority country gives them opportunities they wouldn't have elsewhere. But they can’t say that publicly, they’re forced to parrot that anti-white activist narrative.

Black culture? It’s all performance. They say one thing and do another.

Mothers cheer on militant slogans at rallies but won't let their daughters near those same thugs.

Black society just doesn’t function well in a modern democratic system.

Sure, maybe they'll evolve and modernize one day, but who knows when.

Yup, white supremacy bullshit.

This is just the good ol' leftist brownsmearing of anything that doesn't fit your Silverlake fantasy of what other people should be.

The problem is that it's disengaged from reality.

Palestinians aren't the tokens of western leftist. They have their own hopes, dreams, values and aspirations. But that is perhaps hard to grasp for you?

The leftist habit of projecting leftist values onto Palestinians is racist. Its reducing a people to nothing but empty vessels western leftists can shape into their perfect victim. But God forbid that Palestinian opens their mouth. But that's not a problem, because western leftists don't listen to Palestinians anyway. No matter what the Palestinians say, the western leftist knew what they meant. Its patronising and racist. Palestinians are real humans

So now you're playing the champion of Palestinian agency, using a cartoonish "leftist" strawman as your crash dummy? That’s rich, considering you’ve spent multiple posts reducing Palestinians to terrified Islamofascist drones who supposedly long for Israeli rule but are just too scared to admit it.

You might want to work on your sleight of hand, because you're not pulling off the magic trick of jumping from Palestinians support Hamas and seek Israel's destruction to they secretly love Israeli democracy. Think I just got narrative whiplash. Did you consider it would’ve been easier to just pull a rabbit out of a hat?

 

[laughing dog]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I'd ask the staff why gospel gets away with all the lies and slurs and such,
But I am confident that I already know why.
Tom

Really, please share, because I would bet your confidence is misplaced.

It would be a TOU violation to be honest without staff permission.
That's why I don't respond to Gospel anymore.
Tom

BS, but the audience appreciates your restraint.

 

[TomC]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I'd ask the staff why gospel gets away with all the lies and slurs and such,
But I am confident that I already know why.
Tom

Really, please share, because I would bet your confidence is misplaced.

It would be a TOU violation to be honest without staff permission.
That's why I don't respond to Gospel anymore.
Tom

BS, but the audience appreciates your restraint.

No. It's the flat out truth.
I don't respond to Gospel anymore and the staff can tell you why.
But it would be a TOU violation if I were that honest.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I'd ask the staff why gospel gets away with all the lies and slurs and such,
But I am confident that I already know why.
Tom

Really, please share, because I would bet your confidence is misplaced.

It would be a TOU violation to be honest without staff permission.
That's why I don't respond to Gospel anymore.
Tom

BS, but the audience appreciates your restraint.

No. It's the flat out truth.
I don't respond to Gospel anymore and the staff can tell you why.
But it would be a TOU violation if I were that honest.
Tom

Truly pathetic.

 

[Gospel]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I'd ask the staff why gospel gets away with all the lies and slurs and such,
But I am confident that I already know why.
Tom

Oh trust, the storm’s coming, they’re just busy right now. But I know I’m not gonna last much longer, and that’s fine. I’m just tired of the constant misinformation and cowardly dodging you and Zoidberg rely on while gleefully twisting people’s words into whatever narrative suits your bias. Neither of you are interested in having a meaningful conversation when you constantly toss around disinformation about other users like it’s nothing then complain when you get a taste of your own medicine.

 

[patchy]

This purse fight has demeaned the premise of this board as a rational island of reasonable discourse, cheapened the seriousness of the topic at hand, and essentially highjacked what could have been a productive discussion—even one that pits passionately-held opposing viewpoints against each other—instead of this puerile shit-flinging.
Bad show.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This purse fight has demeaned the premise of this board as a rational island of reasonable discourse, cheapened the seriousness of the topic at hand, and essentially highjacked what could have been a productive discussion—even one that pits passionately-held opposing viewpoints against each other—instead of this puerile shit-flinging.
Bad show.

It's impossible to have any debate about Israel/Gaza/West Bank without it descending to a "purse fight". It is a problem with no viable solution that will satisfy all sides.

 

[bilby]

This purse fight has demeaned the premise of this board as a rational island of reasonable discourse, cheapened the seriousness of the topic at hand, and essentially highjacked what could have been a productive discussion—even one that pits passionately-held opposing viewpoints against each other—instead of this puerile shit-flinging.
Bad show.

It's impossible to have any debate about Israel/Gaza/West Bank without it descending to a "purse fight". It is a problem with no viable solution that will satisfy all sides.

Which is why we should probably ban all mention of it from these fora. We have been having the same pointless bickering and name-calling, often from the same cast of characters, for as long as I have been a member - and that's a loooooooooong time.

We need a blacklist of "unreconcilable issues that have been done to death", mention of which gets warnings, and for repeated offences, suspensions. My nominations are:

"Israel vs Palestine"
and
"Who should use which bathroom?"

I'm sure that there are a small number of other topics that do more harm than good to our reputation as a place for reasoned and dispassionate debate.

 

[TomC]

I'm sure that there are a small number of other topics that do more harm than good to our reputation as a place for reasoned and dispassionate debate.

"Our reputation"?

I'm pretty sure that all 14 people who are not members, but aware of the existence of IIDB, are related to people who are members.

I could be wrong about that place where they don't grasp that it is now the heat of summer. Maybe IIDB is a major force in Australia.
Tom

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think you are now putting words into Tom's mouth, pretending he's implied things he hasn't.

I'd ask the staff why gospel gets away with all the lies and slurs and such,
But I am confident that I already know why.
Tom

Oh trust, the storm’s coming, they’re just busy right now. But I know I’m not gonna last much longer, and that’s fine. I’m just tired of the constant misinformation and cowardly dodging you and Zoidberg rely on while gleefully twisting people’s words into whatever narrative suits your bias. Neither of you are interested in having a meaningful conversation when you constantly toss around disinformation about other users like it’s nothing then complain when you get a taste of your own medicine.

I'm not the one who keeps repeating Hamas propaganda in this thread. We have no reason to think it's the truth.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think I am going to start calling you a Neo Nazi. No reason. But you have no reason to call me white supremacist.. so I might as well.

Some folks really don't see their own hypocrisy at all, even when it is pointed out in an incredibly unsubtle way.

You started this name-calling by accusing anyone who disagreed with you of being antisemitic. Now you are all butthurt, because you are seeing the other side of the same tactic.

I applaud @Gospel for his sucess in laying an obvious rhetorical trap into which you have blundered so mindlessly.

Goose sauce is gander sauce.

No. I accused people of antisemitism for saying antisemitic things, of spreading antisemitic things, and repeating antisemitic Hamas propaganda.

If ones hatred of Jews is so strong that one fails to identify that same hate within them, then I think its important to call out.

I don't like racism. I absolutely don't like how quickly we start hating Jews in the west. At least the Arabs and Palestinians are honest about their antisemitism. In the west our leftist antisemites have managed to convince themselves they're not. Not only that but think they're arguing against racism. Its very hard to talk about healing race hate when the racists are in denial about it.

I called it out because I think its necessary.

Its again dangerous to be a Jew outside Israel. I think that is a failure of our society.

And Jews aren't even special. There's many ethnic groups who get the same treatment. You can count on me to keep calling it out.

 

[DrZoidberg]

When Israel treated the Palestinians who didn't run with respect, the Muslims didn't really know what to do about it. The assumption is all the time that Palestinians in Israel are opressed somehow. They're really not. And never were. They live normal lives in Israel, just like the Jews

A bunch of Islamic supremacy apologists don't seem to realize this.

There are nearly as many Muslim citizens of Israel as there are Gazans. Muslims who enjoy as much peace and prosperity as the other Israeli civilians. According to Wikipedia, Israel has a population of over 10 million. Almost 20% are Muslims. That's about 1.9 million people, Gaza has population just over 2 million.
Tom

And those Palestinians are.. in general... extremely happy to be ruled by Jews.

Why? Because they are the safest and most affluent Palestinians anywhere. And they know it. Living in Israel has given them opportunitys they don't have outside. But they can't say it publicly. Publicly they have to sing along to the Islamofascist song.

Islam is a culture of theatre. They say one thing and often do another.

Mothers publicly applaud Muslim fanatics while forbidding their daughters from dating them.

Islam is as strange as it is dysfunctional in a modern democratic world.

Yes, if course it will evolve, adapt and become modern. Eventually

And those Black folks… generally speaking… are lucky to be ruled by whites.

Why? Because they’re safer, richer, and better off than anywhere else in the world. And deep down, they know it. Living in a white-majority country gives them opportunities they wouldn't have elsewhere. But they can’t say that publicly, they’re forced to parrot that anti-white activist narrative.

Black culture? It’s all performance. They say one thing and do another.

Mothers cheer on militant slogans at rallies but won't let their daughters near those same thugs.

Black society just doesn’t function well in a modern democratic system.

Sure, maybe they'll evolve and modernize one day, but who knows when.

Yup, white supremacy bullshit.

This is just the good ol' leftist brownsmearing of anything that doesn't fit your Silverlake fantasy of what other people should be.

The problem is that it's disengaged from reality.

Palestinians aren't the tokens of western leftist. They have their own hopes, dreams, values and aspirations. But that is perhaps hard to grasp for you?

The leftist habit of projecting leftist values onto Palestinians is racist. Its reducing a people to nothing but empty vessels western leftists can shape into their perfect victim. But God forbid that Palestinian opens their mouth. But that's not a problem, because western leftists don't listen to Palestinians anyway. No matter what the Palestinians say, the western leftist knew what they meant. Its patronising and racist. Palestinians are real humans

So now you're playing the champion of Palestinian agency, using a cartoonish "leftist" strawman as your crash dummy? That’s rich, considering you’ve spent multiple posts reducing Palestinians to terrified Islamofascist drones who supposedly long for Israeli rule but are just too scared to admit it.

You might want to work on your sleight of hand, because you're not pulling off the magic trick of jumping from Palestinians support Hamas and seek Israel's destruction to they secretly love Israeli democracy. Think I just got narrative whiplash. Did you consider it would’ve been easier to just pull a rabbit out of a hat?

You've just taken snippets of what I've said, out of context and woven it into a caricature. I see no point in replying. To make the above post you must have read those quotes in context. I think I probably explained myself good enough the first time around. So, I won't reply.

Middle Easterners are also frustrated about why their governments are so dysfunctional today.



I think Middle Easterners are aware about what their problems are.

Culture evolves slowly to solve practical problems in a given power dynamic. Middle Eastern culture is mostly shaped for surviving under the thumb of the despotic and corrupt Ottoman empire. It's collapse (following WWI was sudden and catastrophic. The colonial powers couldn't fill the extreme power vacuum, of these top down, centrally run, territories. So they GTFO.

A people used to despotic oppression are vulnerable to coups by strongmen. So that's what they got.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not nuanced. But funny