Speciesism

[steve_bank]

Leaned a new word today. Not a new topic historically .

Speciesism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Speciesism (/ˈspiːʃiːˌzɪzəm, -siːˌzɪz-/) is a term used in philosophy regarding the treatment of individuals of different species. The term has several different definitions.[1] Some specifically define speciesism as discrimination or unjustified treatment based on an individual's species membership,[2][3][4] while others define it as differential treatment without regard to whether the treatment is justified or not.[5][6] Richard D. Ryder, who coined the term, defined it as "a prejudice or attitude of bias in favour of the interests of members of one's own species and against those of members of other species".[7] Speciesism results in the belief that humans have the right to use non-human animals in exploitative ways which is pervasive in the modern society.[8][9][10] Studies from 2015 and 2019 suggest that people who support animal exploitation also tend to have intersectional bias that encapsulates and endorses racist, sexist, and other prejudicial views, which furthers the beliefs in human supremacy and group dominance to justify systems of inequality and oppression.[11][12]

As a term, speciesism first appeared during a protest against animal experimentation in 1970. Philosophers and animal rights advocates state that speciesism plays a role in the animal–industrial complex,[13][14] including in the practice of factory farming, animal slaughter, blood sports (such as bullfighting, cockfighting and rodeos), the taking of animals' fur and skin, and experimentation on animals,[15][16][17] as well as the refusal to help animals suffering in the wild due to natural processes,[18][19] and the categorization of certain animals as alien, non-naturalized, feral and invasive giving then the justification to their killing or culling based on these classifications.[20]

Notable proponents of the concept include Peter Singer, Oscar Horta, Steven M. Wise, Gary L. Francione, Melanie Joy, David Nibert, Steven Best, and Ingrid Newkirk. Among academics, the ethics, morality, and concept of speciesism has been the subject of substantial philosophical debate.[26] Carl Cohen, Nel Noddings, Bernard Williams, Peter Staudenmaier, Christopher Grau, Douglas Maclean, Roger Scruton, Thomas Wells, and Robert Nozick have criticized the term or elements of it.

All critters and plants and microbial life can and do at ti9es exploit other forms of life.

If it is untactful to exploit other species for our benefit, exactly where is that ethics written?

I have watched video Orca's hunting seals on floating ice. Group hunting.

Some dolphins have learned to herd fish into shallow water where they then have a feast,

Grizzlies are territorial.

Wolves hunting in collaborative groups.


Why should we be considered any different?

The question goes to what ethics and morality are, and the basis for it.

 

[Bronzeage]

There is no morality or ethics in the food chain.

 

[BH]

We have to practice speciesism or what would be called that if animals practice it. To not do so would be to die. Our world is built to where you have to crap on something else or someone else to survive. Some wasps have to crap on some caterpillar larvae and shoot egg into them which hatch and eat the caterpillar alive. Humans take stuff from other humans and even kill other humans to get stuff. This could theoretically be stopped or severely restricted by policy or laws or treaties actually enforced. The problem is a lot of people *do really well crapping on others* and there is no incentive to make them stop if it lowers their own living quality.

 

[Politesse]

Why should we be considered any different?

If you can ask the question, then you should ask the question. To say that morality is salutory when applied to humans but injurious when applied to other species is itself an arbitrary boundary poorly considered. And inconsistently applied; I grew up in dairy and almond country, where the common mood of the culture with regard to beef was "serve it to me still mooing, vegetarians are anemic traitors to God's will", but the thought of eating or sacrificing cats or dogs was so supposedly heinous that the mere accusation of it was used to justify police brutality in SE asian neighborhoods. The situation of pigs, kept as both pets and eaten as food, iss even less consistent. A pig with a name and a collar has "pet rights", a pig in a pen can be abused with impunity.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

There is no morality or ethics in the food chain.

Ok, so we should not use any technology. It's unnatural, and according to this argument, we should go by what is natural. Better get off this forum and the internet then. And I hope you like eating totally raw meat, and biting directly into an animal carcass. It is the natural state of things. Oh, and you can't use human languages either, so don't even bother replying, unless it's a grunt.

 

[southernhybrid]

Humane World, previously known as The Humane Society has done extensive work in reducing cruelty to animals committed by human animals. Some examples would be the banning cock fighting, dog fighting, whale hunting to some extent, as well as helping rescue dogs, cats etc. Humane World advocated for ending factory farming, and if we're going to eat meat, there are ways of raising and slaughtering animals that are not horrific. It would be great if we didn't eat meat, but we did evolve to get a lot of our protein from animals and it would be hard to keep a pet dog as a vegan as they are primarily meat eaters, being so closely related to wolves. We could all decrease our consumption of meat and support more humane ways of raising and killing the animals that we eat. That would help not only the animals but our own environment along with other animals species who's habitats our bad habits are helping destroy.

A couple of good books that might help people understand why we should treat other animals better than we do are: "Are we Smart Enough to know how Smart Animals are" by Frans de Waal and "The Bond, Our Kinship with Animals and our call to Defend them" by Wayne Ellis, who was a former head of Humane World and was very involved in helping end many of the cruel things that humans do to animals. Humane World has also worked with S. Korea in helping the banning of eating dog meat. It hasn't taken effect yet, but will be totally banned in 2027. Based on what I've read, this was to give those who farm dogs for meat some time to find new jobs or change to new types of farming. Dogs are one of the smartest, most loving animals, so while it would be nice if we all stopped eating animals, there are some animals that imo, should never have been eaten in the first place Dogs are our best friends. They do so much for us, and a well trained working dog usually enjoys the work they were trained to do, assuming they are well cared for and rewarded. Dogs are motivated by rewards, just like humans tend to be.

In many ways, humans are the worst animals on earth, but we could at least try to change some of our worst habits with the proper influences and help. The is of course you're not a hard core determinist.

 

[steve_bank]

Why should we be considered any different?

If you can ask the question, then you should ask the question. To say that morality is salutory when applied to humans but injurious when applied to other species is itself an arbitrary boundary poorly considered. And inconsistently applied; I grew up in dairy and almond country, where the common mood of the culture with regard to beef was "serve it to me still mooing, vegetarians are anemic traitors to God's will", but the thought of eating or sacrificing cats or dogs was so supposedly heinous that the mere accusation of it was used to justify police brutality in SE asian neighborhoods. The situation of pigs, kept as both pets and eaten as food, iss even less consistent. A pig with a name and a collar has "pet rights", a pig in a pen can be abused with impunity.

That is not what I siad.

We tend to think there is humans and then everything else. Modern activists say humans are the scourge of the Erato and some say humans should be eliminated altogether. The human self loathing crowd.

We are genetcally what evolution made us. We exploit and our continuation of speech and dexterity makes us very good at it.

There is no right or wrong to it, it just is.

The question now is will be be able to muster the self control collectively to limit our instincts.

That in part is what religion and philosophy is all about. A thin veneer of civility over our basic natural instincts.

When demotic dogs and cats go feral they loose the human conditioning and renter to theirr natural behavior.

 

[steve_bank]

Animal cruelty aside the pet industry is exploitive.

So0ebdy in my building about six years ago got a dog. A mixed breed and high spirted. Outside he is always surveying and tracking critters, a hunter.

He had him neutered and had a trainer dampen his spirit.

To me that is highly exploitive. Make a dog not act like a dog to suit a human.

I th9ught it was sad. A free spirited dog with his spirit beaten out of him, a shock collar was used

Whenever he saw me he perked up, wagged his tail, and jumped up up on me. Now when I pass him his head is down and tame.

Id say pets are about power. The owner dominates and pest can not say no.

Not technically animal abuse. People will act tough and speak harshly to a pet for not confirming.

A lot of people walk around Seattle with pet digs, jerking the collar to make it go in a direction.

 

[Bronzeage]

There is no morality or ethics in the food chain.

Ok, so we should not use any technology. It's unnatural, and according to this argument, we should go by what is natural. Better get off this forum and the internet then. And I hope you like eating totally raw meat, and biting directly into an animal carcass. It is the natural state of things. Oh, and you can't use human languages either, so don't even bother replying, unless it's a grunt.

I think you are trying to say something, but it's not coming through.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

There is no morality or ethics in the food chain.

Ok, so we should not use any technology. It's unnatural, and according to this argument, we should go by what is natural. Better get off this forum and the internet then. And I hope you like eating totally raw meat, and biting directly into an animal carcass. It is the natural state of things. Oh, and you can't use human languages either, so don't even bother replying, unless it's a grunt.

I think you are trying to say something, but it's not coming through.

Well it should be pretty obvious what I'm getting at given I literally wrote it out.

 

[Elixir]

Ok, so we should not use any technology.

That doesn’t follow.
Technology is an emergent quality of nature, and is not exclusive to humans.

 

[Bronzeage]

There is no morality or ethics in the food chain.

Ok, so we should not use any technology. It's unnatural, and according to this argument, we should go by what is natural. Better get off this forum and the internet then. And I hope you like eating totally raw meat, and biting directly into an animal carcass. It is the natural state of things. Oh, and you can't use human languages either, so don't even bother replying, unless it's a grunt.

I think you are trying to say something, but it's not coming through.

Well it should be pretty obvious what I'm getting at given I literally wrote it out.

What you have written is an obvious non sequitur.

 

[southernhybrid]

Animal cruelty aside the pet industry is exploitive.

So0ebdy in my building about six years ago got a dog. A mixed breed and high spirted. Outside he is always surveying and tracking critters, a hunter.

He had him neutered and had a trainer dampen his spirit.

To me that is highly exploitive. Make a dog not act like a dog to suit a human.

I th9ught it was sad. A free spirited dog with his spirit beaten out of him, a shock collar was used

Whenever he saw me he perked up, wagged his tail, and jumped up up on me. Now when I pass him his head is down and tame.

Id say pets are about power. The owner dominates and pest can not say no.

Not technically animal abuse. People will act tough and speak harshly to a pet for not confirming.

A lot of people walk around Seattle with pet digs, jerking the collar to make it go in a direction.

Some people don't know how to treat their dogs or other pets, but I don't think you know much about dogs based on your post. Dogs evolved to be with us. They love us. They are devoted to us. They have been trained to work with us, to help us and in return we give them love, shelter, food and free medical care. At least that's the way it's supposed to be. My two are rescues. I'm pretty sure they are happy to have me as their slave. There are lots of good nonfiction books about the history of dogs and how they evolved to be our companions. Humans have over bred them and sometimes treated them poorly, but that's a different story.

My dog Sunny is still a bit overbearing. She loves everyone so much that she wants to jump up and hug them or sit no their laps. Sometimes I have to tell her no because sometimes dogs are like children and you have to set limits for them. But, it should never involve any violence. Cats often enjoy being with their human companions too. it's been a long time since I've had cats in my life, but the last one we had was a joy. She loved chasing the dog and teasing him. She loved preening my husband's beard, being petted etc. I have some old photos of her on his lap while stretching her paws so she could reach his beard. She was adorable. Domesticated animals kept as part of our families enjoy the benefits as much as we do.

 

[Jarhyn]

Animal cruelty aside the pet industry is exploitive.

So0ebdy in my building about six years ago got a dog. A mixed breed and high spirted. Outside he is always surveying and tracking critters, a hunter.

He had him neutered and had a trainer dampen his spirit.

To me that is highly exploitive. Make a dog not act like a dog to suit a human.

I th9ught it was sad. A free spirited dog with his spirit beaten out of him, a shock collar was used

Whenever he saw me he perked up, wagged his tail, and jumped up up on me. Now when I pass him his head is down and tame.

Id say pets are about power. The owner dominates and pest can not say no.

Not technically animal abuse. People will act tough and speak harshly to a pet for not confirming.

A lot of people walk around Seattle with pet digs, jerking the collar to make it go in a direction.

Some people don't know how to treat their dogs or other pets, but I don't think you know much about dogs based on your post. Dogs evolved to be with us. They love us. They are devoted to us. They have been trained to work with us, to help us and in return we give them love, shelter, food and free medical care. At least that's the way it's supposed to be. My two are rescues. I'm pretty sure they are happy to have me as their slave. There are lots of good nonfiction books about the history of dogs and how they evolved to be our companions. Humans have over bred them and sometimes treated them poorly, but that's a different story.

My dog Sunny is still a bit overbearing. She loves everyone so much that she wants to jump up and hug them or sit no their laps. Sometimes I have to tell her no because sometimes dogs are like children and you have to set limits for them. But, it should never involve any violence. Cats often enjoy being with their human companions too. it's been a long time since I've had cats in my life, but the last one we had was a joy. She loved chasing the dog and teasing him. She loved preening my husband's beard, being petted etc. I have some old photos of her on his lap while stretching her paws so she could reach his beard. She was adorable. Domesticated animals kept as part of our families enjoy the benefits as much as we do.

One of our cats is a stray we took in. She had a home at some point before us, but she begged her way inside, coming by our front door for some time before she was too emaciated to think she still had a home somewhere.

We let our cats around our yard, including her, off leash... All except the Bengal who is headstrong, quick, and likes to be cheeky. That little fucker got on the upper roof of our old house from an open window once, and dragging him off of it was not fun.

The other two, though, they just hang around and then come back inside when they are done exploring.

We supervised them in the old yard, either way.

All three generally decide on their own when to come inside, again, and while the one we keep on leash is rambunctious, if he gets at all scared, he's right there pawing at the door.

None of our cats are particularly oppressed that way, and none of them show much of an interest in being rid of us.

I think the one we brought in would feel particularly betrayed and abandoned if we were to just "free" her, because it has happened before and she didn't like it.

Pets are for most people a way to live for others in ways they aren't expected to earn, but which they generally do anyway. It feels good to love something for no reason than because you wish to, so long as that thing is mostly harmless.

People who instead do not love, they practice something ugly, and learn something ugly.

Most animals in the world want to be left alone to do what they want whenever they want, as if they and their urges are the only things that matter in the world. The extreme of these are "pure Darwinians". Most things are a bit more "socially minded" than that, but not by much. They understand that they are not the only things with "might" of their own, and this means their own might has limits, but the common thread is that their might makes "right".

There is some question about how deeply other things come to understand peace and love as something to seek for its own sake. When they do, I think it is evil to violate that peace to the extent that the other would avoid doing the same to you.

 

[steve_bank]

Feral female cats like their bigger cousins form groups for self protection and raising young.. Male feral cats like bigger cousins killing kittens to bring females into heat.

Feral cats become predators, they are a serous hreatt to local bird populations in some places. Natural instincts take over.


Dogs obviously have been bred for specific traits. Tiny to huge dogs. Aggressive versus passive.

Some dog breeds can not survive on their own, they are dependent on humans. Historically show digs were a luxury for the upscale. To me it is bizarre. People walk around carrying small dogs.

Dog meat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dog meat, also known as fragrant meat or simply fragrant,[4][5] is the meat derived from dogs. Historically human consumption of dog meat has been recorded in many parts of the world.[6]

In the 21st century, dog meat is consumed to a limited extent in Cambodia,[7] China,[8] India,[9] Indonesia, Ghana, Laos,[10] Nigeria,[11] South Korea,[12][13] Switzerland,[14] and Vietnam.[15] In these areas, the legality of dog meat consumption varies with some nations permitting it or lacking a nationwide ban. It was estimated in 2014 that worldwide, 25 million dogs were eaten each year by humans.[16][needs update]

Some cultures view the consumption of dog meat as part of their traditional, ritualistic, or day-to-day cuisine, and other cultures consider consumption of dog meat a taboo, even where it had been consumed in the past. Opinions also vary drastically across different regions within different countries.[17][18]

Pets are an exploitation, no more or less than anything else we do. I am not a vegetarian.

Buy a pretty and colorful parrot and put in a small cage for your pleasure, clip its wings. They are social critters, deprive it of a parrot life.


I would never have a pet for just having a pet, I have no need for it. If I had a house I might have a watch dog.

I prefer to socialize with people not dogs and cats.

 

[pood]

I prefer to socialize with people not dogs and cats.

Funny, I’m just the opposite.

 

[southernhybrid]

Feral female cats like their bigger cousins form groups for self protection and raising young.. Male feral cats like bigger cousins killing kittens to bring females into heat.

Feral cats become predators, they are a serous hreatt to local bird populations in some places. Natural instincts take over.


Dogs obviously have been bred for specific traits. Tiny to huge dogs. Aggressive versus passive.

Some dog breeds can not survive on their own, they are dependent on humans. Historically show digs were a luxury for the upscale. To me it is bizarre. People walk around carrying small dogs.

Dog meat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dog meat, also known as fragrant meat or simply fragrant,[4][5] is the meat derived from dogs. Historically human consumption of dog meat has been recorded in many parts of the world.[6]

In the 21st century, dog meat is consumed to a limited extent in Cambodia,[7] China,[8] India,[9] Indonesia, Ghana, Laos,[10] Nigeria,[11] South Korea,[12][13] Switzerland,[14] and Vietnam.[15] In these areas, the legality of dog meat consumption varies with some nations permitting it or lacking a nationwide ban. It was estimated in 2014 that worldwide, 25 million dogs were eaten each year by humans.[16][needs update]

Some cultures view the consumption of dog meat as part of their traditional, ritualistic, or day-to-day cuisine, and other cultures consider consumption of dog meat a taboo, even where it had been consumed in the past. Opinions also vary drastically across different regions within different countries.[17][18]

Pets are an exploitation, no more or less than anything else we do. I am not a vegetarian.

Buy a pretty and colorful parrot and put in a small cage for your pleasure, clip its wings. They are social critters, deprive it of a parrot life.


I would never have a pet for just having a pet, I have no need for it. If I had a house I might have a watch dog.

I prefer to socialize with people not dogs and cats.

I agree with you about parrots, but not about cats or dogs as they are completely domesticated. We had two birds during what I call, the bird infatuation period, which started around 1990. The second one was a rescue who wasn't treated well. We had them both for over 30 years before they died. At least they spent their time in our huge sunroom. most of the time and the cages they had were huge. They just slept in them and they had lots of toys to keep them busy.

One loved to fly around the room, while the other one showed no interest in flying. They were spoiled little brats, but despite the claims that hand raised parrots were totally domesticated, we learned that they aren't. Most tend to get attached to one person and attack anyone else, although that isn't always the case. Sadly, too many people have gotten parrots without realizing how much work they are. They they get rid of them and these days, some parrots are being euthanized as nobody wants them.

Small hook beaked birds are okay for pets, imo. We had a little love bird who was a delight. He would fly all over the house, sit on my husband's head and preen his hair, but he hated most of our other pets. I met a worker in a grocery store last week who was grieving the loss of his little budgie. We expressed our sympathy, but also encouraged him to only have small birds as pets, if he wanted to have another one.

Alex was a famous African Grey who was brilliant. I've read a lot about him. He said a huge number of words, talked in sentences and even make up his own words at times. For example, he called an almond a "cork nut" as he knew it was a nut but it also looked like cork. Still, Alex died of a heart attack in his mid 30s, which is young for a Grey. I was glad that both of my birds died in their 30s as it was my fear they would out live me. I still miss them sometimes, despite all the work they were. Jammer, the little cockatoo died at 34, which was actually about right for her life expectancy. She was a lot of work, but I was her favorite, so whenever I left the room, she would scream until I returned. Harley, the rescue liked my husband more. He would bite me if I didn't wear a glove or wrap something protective over my hand. Harley said a lot of funny things. I used to sing to the birds and they would sway back and forth with me. All things considered, I do think we gave our birds a pretty good life, but knowing what I know now, I discourage people from getting pet parrots, unless they are willing to rescue one who has been abandoned by its original person, and give it a good life. They need a lot of room, a lot of socialization and a lot of cleaning up after.

 

[southernhybrid]

I prefer to socialize with people not dogs and cats.

Funny, I’m just the opposite.

Me too. I just ordered a t-shirt that says, "Dogs are my favorite people". I had a sticker that said, "Dogs are people too" and I also used to have a sticker on my car that said, "Dog is my copilot". I also had a "dog fish" on one of my cars. It was like a Jesus fish, but it had feet and it said dog in the middle. If only people like Steve understood dogs.

Sure, people eat meat, but dogs evolved to be with us, to love us and be our companions. We don't usually eat our best friends, so I'm glad that S. Korea is in the process of banning the eating of dogs.

 

[southernhybrid]

I talked about a book in the lounge that I strongly reccommend.

https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Dogs-Friends-Becoming-Medicine/dp/1524743046

In this groundbreaking book, Goodavage brings us behind the scenes of cutting-edge science at top research centers, and into the lives of people whose well-being depends on their devoted, highly skilled personal MDs (medical dogs). With her signature wit and passion, Goodavage explores how doctor dogs are becoming our happy allies in the fight against dozens of physical and mental conditions.

We meet dogs who detect cancer and Parkinson’s disease, and dogs who alert people to seizures and diabetic lows or highs and other life-threatening physical ailments. Goodavage reveals the revolutionary ways dogs are helping those with autism, anxiety, depression, schizophrenia, and post-traumatic stress disorder. And she introduces us to intrepid canines who are protecting us from antibiotic-resistant bugs, and to dogs who may one day help keep us safe from epidemic catastrophe. Their paycheck for their lifesaving work? Heartfelt praise and a tasty treat or favorite toy.

Dogs are the best! These dogs aren't being exploited. They love their jobs and just like humans, they expect a reward for doing a good job. We get paychecks. They get toys, treats and love.

 

[southernhybrid]

I think my dog Sunny must have read my recent posts as she just jumped next to me and put her head on my shoulder, asking for a little love. I rescued her from a nasty shelter. She manipulated me by looking at me with her pretty brown eyes as if to say, "You've got to take me home with you. I need to get out of this place. I love you. I promise. I really do". I still keep in touch with the volunteer at the shelter, who is hoping to visit Sunny when we get back to Georgia.