How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[ZiprHead]

Polish border control sign in Ukrainian warning about random checks for nazi tattoos.
You can keep your Bandera tattoos under underwear for now.

I warned you before that anything posted in cyrillic without a translation would be deleted.

I fucking translated it for you

No, you didn't.

Yes, I did.

No, you provided a one sentence summary, not a translation.

 

[Harry Bosch]

What Russia Doesn’t Want You to Know About Your History


@barbos you implied that The Ukraine turned it's back on Russia because of US influance/propaganda.
I call bullshit on that. ALL the former Soviet stetes FEAR Russia. And want to join NATO. The invasions of Chechnya and the Ukraine only increase the fear and rush to the west. No US influance needed.
There was an old saying during the VietNam protests. "It's like grabing sand. The tighter your grip, the more slips through your fingers."
Russia is loosing aliais on it's own. And is trying to get them back by FORCE.

Totally agree. Russia has no one to blame but itself. Putin was quoted once as saying that he wants a border with Ukraine that is similar to what the US and Canada have. A friendly border. Well dip shit, here's a hint! If you want friendly border countries, don't bully and bomb the shit out of them! Don't kidnap their children and bomb their infrastructure. Ironically, before Russia invaded, Ukraine was really split in half. About half the country wanted to go west, the other half was mostly Russian speaking and preferred the east. That has totally swapped now. Most of that country hates Russia now.

I would say that it is a bit more complicated than that half of the country preferred to go with Russia. It was more that younger Ukrainians all across Ukraine wanted a Western future rather than one with Russia. As time went by, Russia saw that the Ukrainian electorate really wasn't into becoming like Russia. That is why Russia started to resort to military action.

Note that Zelenskyy is Russian-speaking, still has been Western-oriented the entire time.

Of course, the Russian invasion has turned even many of those more inclined to Russia against it.

You parrot EU media lies rather well.

I'm curious, what are the EU media lies in the above paragraph from Tammuz? Do you honestly believe that younger Ukrainians prefer a country that bombs the shit out of them and destroys their infrastructure?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Barbos said: "How can he do that? Refusing to buy Russian oil?"

When has Modi said that he would not buy oil from Russia? The American 50% tariffs are, at least, partly because of that. Modi is as firm as rock about sovereignty of India's policies.
NATO, US or Trump would never like to stop arming Ukraine. It is a proxy war at the cost of Ukrainians.

But your country is aiding the country that is invading another. Our support is helping a country defend itself. For Russia, it is a war of choice. For Ukraine it is a war of survival. I do not support Tariffs in an economic war. But in this case, India is helping an imperialist country wage war.

 

[Harry Bosch]

We might have even bought a few of those F-35s to amuse the US, though we do not need them. But the tariffs put an end to that.

I actually think that India has a right to be confused and angry about the recent tariffs. The west did ask India to continue buying Oil from Russia after sanctions against Russia. We didnt want the increasing cost of oil to inflate the world economy too much. However, we need to find a way to stop this war. Period. It's been going on for 3.5 years. Ukraine has offered behind the scenes very reasonable concessions to end the war. Putin has not agreed to any reasonable concessions. So any country aiding Russia needs to be sanctioned. Or this war will go on forever.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've never really understood why the US and India don't have better relations. Heck, even right now, both nations are run by Russian stooges... and still not getting alone.

 

[aupmanyav]

I actually think that India has a right to be confused and angry about the recent tariffs. The west did ask India to continue buying Oil from Russia after sanctions against Russia. We didnt want the increasing cost of oil to inflate the world economy too much. However, we need to find a way to stop this war. Period. It's been going on for 3.5 years. Ukraine has offered behind the scenes very reasonable concessions to end the war. Putin has not agreed to any reasonable concessions. So any country aiding Russia needs to be sanctioned. Or this war will go on forever.

I do not think Indians are in any way confused. We know that the tariffs came because Modi declined Trump's invitation to come to Washington after his visit to Canada when Trump wanted him to sit with Asim Munir so that he could bragg about bringing the two to the same table and get a step closer to his coveted Nobel Prize, just like he falsely claimed to have brought cease-fire by threatening India with trade sanctions. But then, Trump is a habitual liar, more so in his second term. It is reported that Modi has refused to talk to Trump in his four attempts.

Operation Sindoor is still continuing (which means that if Pakistan causes any terror damage to India, India will react militarily instantly). The Indus Water Treaty stands suspended. No to any trade between the two countries even through a third country, or visits of people between the two countries.

OK, we will bear the cost of tariffs. Sanctions have not worked anywhere. Tariffs will not work against India too. But we will not lick Trump's bottom. Sanctions or military supplies have not stopped the Russia-Ukraine war in 3.5 years. It is sane diplomacy which might succeed. Economists estimate that the effect of tariffs will make just 1% difference in GDP of India. Of course, we have not stopped the trade dialogue with US, and we will accept whatever is decided between the two countries. India has never renegaded on its commitments.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I actually think that India has a right to be confused and angry about the recent tariffs. The west did ask India to continue buying Oil from Russia after sanctions against Russia. We didnt want the increasing cost of oil to inflate the world economy too much. However, we need to find a way to stop this war. Period. It's been going on for 3.5 years. Ukraine has offered behind the scenes very reasonable concessions to end the war. Putin has not agreed to any reasonable concessions. So any country aiding Russia needs to be sanctioned. Or this war will go on forever.

I do not think Indians are in any way confused. We know that the tariffs came because Modi declined Trump's invitation to come to Washington after his visit to Canada when Trump wanted him to sit with Asim Munir so that he could bragg about bringing the two to the same table and get a step closer to his coveted Nobel Prize, just like he falsely claimed to have brought cease-fire by threatening India with trade sanctions. But then, Trump is a habitual liar, more so in his second term. It is reported that Modi has refused to talk to Trump in his four attempts.

Operation Sindoor is still continuing (which means that if Pakistan causes any terror damage to India, India will react militarily instantly). The Indus Water Treaty stands suspended. No to any trade between the two countries even through a third country, or visits of people between the two countries.

OK, we will bear the cost of tariffs. Sanctions have not worked anywhere. Tariffs will not work against India too. But we will not lick Trump's bottom. Sanctions or military supplies have not stopped the Russia-Ukraine war in 3.5 years. It is sane diplomacy which might succeed. Economists estimate that the effect of tariffs will make just 1% difference in GDP of India. Of course, we have not stopped the trade dialogue with US, and we will accept whatever is decided between the two countries. India has never renegaded on its commitments.

Please elaborate on the sane sanctions that you think might stop this war.

 

[aupmanyav]

I've never really understood why the US and India don't have better relations. Heck, even right now, both nations are run by Russian stooges... and still not getting alone.

India and US were going famously together till Trump got his idea of getting a Nobel Prize. That is not our concern. The Norwegian Nobel Committee decides it. They may still want to give Trump the Noble Peace Prize. India does not loose anything because of that.
Modi is nobody's stooge. India-Russia friendship is decades old. If he had the stooge mentality, he would have surrendered to Trump as Asim Munir did.
Why would not India consider Russia as a friend when Russians have helped us more than the US in nuclear energy, arms, rocketry, space exploration and at the UN?

 

[aupmanyav]

Please elaborate on the sane sanctions that you think might stop this war.

I said sane diplomacy. Russia does not have faith in US and NATO, but it has full faith in India. Modi had visited Ukraine last year around this time. Zelenskyy too has talked to Modi many a times, last time just before SCO meeting. India has always said that wars should be stopped and solutions be found by dialogue. I hope and wish that it works.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've never really understood why the US and India don't have better relations. Heck, even right now, both nations are run by Russian stooges... and still not getting alone.

India and US were going famously together till Trump got his idea of getting a Nobel Prize. That is not our concern. The Norwegian Nobel Committee decides it. They may still want to give Trump the Noble Peace Prize. India does not loose anything because of that.
Modi is nobody's stooge. India-Russia friendship is decades old. If he had the stooge mentality, he would have surrendered to Trump as Asim Munir did.
Why would not India consider Russia as a friend when Russians have helped us more than the US in nuclear energy, arms, rocketry, space exploration and at the UN?

Like I said, I've never understood why India and the US don't have better ties. Granted, India likely has an anti-West bias with the whole Britain thing, much like how China has an anti-West bias over the opium war thing. But a massive democracy, and certainly good relations with what could be the predominant power in the Indian Ocean region would benefit the US. It makes sense morally and strategically. Maybe it is just too far away.

 

[barbos]

I've never really understood why the US and India don't have better relations.

It's really simple. "better" relations with US means India would have to be US proxy against China. Indians don't want that.

 

[barbos]

Putin has not agreed to any reasonable concessions.

You call Russia leaving everything (including Crimea) and allowing US nuclear missiles in Ukraine a reasonable concession?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've never really understood why the US and India don't have better relations.

It's really simple. "better" relations with US means India would have to be US proxy against China. Indians don't want that.

Pretty certain India isn't big on China. Any relationship with them is one born more out of self-survival.

 

[aupmanyav]

Like I said, I've never understood why India and the US don't have better ties. Granted, India likely has an anti-West bias with the whole Britain thing, much like how China has an anti-West bias over the opium war thing. But a massive democracy, and certainly good relations with what could be the predominant power in the Indian Ocean region would benefit the US. It makes sense morally and strategically. Maybe it is just too far away.

India has absolutely no problem with UK. We are still a member of Common Wealth and we are likely to hold Common Wealth Games in 2030.
"The India-UK Free Trade Agreement (FTA) is a trade deal signed on July 24, 2025, aimed at enhancing trade and investment between the two countries by reducing tariffs and opening up markets. It allows UK firms to bid for Indian government contracts and is expected to significantly boost bilateral trade by 2030."
It is for US to decide what is good and what is not good for it, but they should not try to boss over India, especially with a person like Modi at the helm. Navarro et. al are speaking like damned fools.

It's really simple. "better" relations with US means India would have to be US proxy against China. Indians don't want that.

Yeah, we would not be a proxy to US against China as NATO has made Ukraine against Russia.

Pretty certain India isn't big on China. Any relationship with them is one born more out of self-survival.

There is no problem about survival of India. As the Pakistan's National Poet (Allama Iqbal) said "The empires of Egypt, Greece and Rome have disappeared from the world but India survives). Both, China and ourselves were mending our relations even before tariffs came up. China too tried to dominate us but we proved more resilient in our Ladakh encounters.

 

[bilby]

Like I said, I've never understood why India and the US don't have better ties. Granted, India likely has an anti-West bias with the whole Britain thing, much like how China has an anti-West bias over the opium war thing. But a massive democracy, and certainly good relations with what could be the predominant power in the Indian Ocean region would benefit the US. It makes sense morally and strategically. Maybe it is just too far away.

Nah, it's just that the Americans think the Indians are still sore over having their land stolen by General Custer and his ilk.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Something to watch is Ukraine repeatedly bombing the same fuel facilities instead of randomly hitting various ones. With Trump as expected dithering on sanctions, is Ukraine going to increasingly take matters into their own hands and basically fight an economic war while Russia fights its meat war. If so, who will collapse first, Ukrainian troops or the Russian economy?
With Ukraine’s new Flamingo missile, can they, will they go after Russia’s shadow fleet?

Why would they need a missile for the shadow fleet? There won't be air defenses to speak of, simply fly some of their bigger drones in front of the ship, drop impact-fused mines (use an electric detonator, detonates a short while after being dropped. If the detonator fails the battery runs down and it won't go off if hit.) How many waterline hits can a civilian ship take???

 

[TV and credit cards]

Something to watch is Ukraine repeatedly bombing the same fuel facilities instead of randomly hitting various ones. With Trump as expected dithering on sanctions, is Ukraine going to increasingly take matters into their own hands and basically fight an economic war while Russia fights its meat war. If so, who will collapse first, Ukrainian troops or the Russian economy?
With Ukraine’s new Flamingo missile, can they, will they go after Russia’s shadow fleet?

Why would they need a missile for the shadow fleet? There won't be air defenses to speak of, simply fly some of their bigger drones in front of the ship, drop impact-fused mines (use an electric detonator, detonates a short while after being dropped. If the detonator fails the battery runs down and it won't go off if hit.) How many waterline hits can a civilian ship take???

I think ideally they would go after the Russian ports of the shadow fleet. Two closest I've found so far are Taman' just on the Sea of Azov side of the Kerch bridge and Novorossiysk about fifty miles east on the Black Sea. I think there are six ports total. From what I've read, the Novorossiysk port is a major one.
If Ukraine feels they've little hope of Ztrump doing anything more than stalling and depending on how desperate Ukraine's situation may be on the ground, missile strikes would deal a more decisive and lasting blow at the port infrastructure.

 

[aupmanyav]

Nah, it's just that the Americans think the Indians are still sore over having their land stolen by General Custer and his ilk.

India is a bigger economy than UK by about a trillion USD. We expect that by the end of Modi's regime in 2029, we will surpass Germany and be the third largest economy.

Russia has an arsenal of more than 5,000 bombs, and has Chinese support. North Koreans have fought for Russia, a few things to remember.

 

[barbos]

I think ideally they would go after the Russian ports of the shadow fleet. Two closest I've found so far are Taman' just on the Sea of Azov side of the Kerch bridge and Novorossiysk about fifty miles east on the Black Sea.

And they would lose Odessa port. Is that what you want, you genius strategist?
You still don't get that Russia does not use everything it has, by far. And if ukro-nazi give us excuse we might.

 

[barbos]

If Ukraine feels they've little hope of Ztrump doing anything more than stalling and depending on how desperate Ukraine's situation may be on the ground, missile strikes would deal a more decisive and lasting blow at the port infrastructure.

LOL, you think it's Kiev Regime who is actually holding itself.