The No Secret Police Act

[Harry Bosch]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

 

[bilby]

"Secret Police", in the traditional authoritarian state meaning of the phrase, refers not to police who obscure their identity while on duty (eg by wearing masks), but to what we today call 'undercover cops' - people who pretend to be ordinary citizens, but who are in fact agents of the state.

Undercover policing has some legitimate value - a policeman who can pose as a gangmember to gather evidence against the gang's leaders is useful in reducing organised crime.

But in authoritarian states the Secret Policeman is the guy in the pub or café, who reports back about the loudmouth who said rude things about the government or the dictator, so that they can later be privately arrested and "disappeared".

It is an excellent idea to force police and similar government agents or officials (when not undercover) to identify themselves so that individual officers who break the rules can be subjected to disciplinary action. But it is important to note that requiring such indentifiability is not the same thing as interdicting the establishment of a Secret Police.

 

[thebeave]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if it was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

What right do federal troopers have to override a popularly elected governor? I'm a states rights person. I think that Trump is becoming a tyrant. I don't think we should allow federal troops to settle state issues. Show me where in the constitution allows the federal government through ICE to violate state laws? Where is ICE allowed to overturn local police? If we are going to continue weakening the power of local governments, should we just fire all state governments because El Presidentee knows better?

 

[laughing dog]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The law applies to all law enforcement officers.

There are real people out there with nefarious intent wearing masks. Some of them are some ICE agents. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong with anonymous law enforcement officers hiding behind masks. Police officers don’t wear typically wear masks and they face real danger all the time.

The notion that signing or enforcing a law legally passed by the state’s legislature is certainly an interesting one. Should President Trump face criminal charges for the wrongful deportations or the deaths of those two detainees?

 

[Playball40]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

How is is even legal for a STATE government authority to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body when the FEDERAL constitution already protects a woman's right to privacy and agency.

 

[thebeave]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if it was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

What right do federal troopers have to override a popularly elected governor? I'm a states rights person. I think that Trump is becoming a tyrant. I don't think we should allow federal troops to settle state issues. Show me where in the constitution allows the federal government through ICE to violate state laws? Where is ICE allowed to overturn local police? If we are going to continue weakening the power of local governments, should we just fire all state governments because El Presidentee knows better?

I am generally a states rights person myself, but the federal government does have the right and responsibility for immigration enforcement. It has always been this way. But there are some restrictions and limitations at both the federal and state government level when it comes to immigration enforcement. So what CA state laws specifically are you referring to that ICE violates? If you mean the new mask law, that has been signed into law, but that does not necessarily mean it is constitutional at the federal level. Or do you have evidence it is?

 

[thebeave]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

How is is even legal for a STATE government authority to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body when the FEDERAL constitution already protects a woman's right to privacy and agency.

This is a big can of worms that has been hashed over ad nauseum on IIDB. Probably best to look it up in the Roe V Wade thread, or if you don't find the answer you are looking for, you can start a new thread.

 

[thebeave]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The law applies to all law enforcement officers.

There are real people out there with nefarious intent wearing masks. Some of them are some ICE agents. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong with anonymous law enforcement officers hiding behind masks. Police officers don’t wear typically wear masks and they face real danger all the time.

The notion that signing or enforcing a law legally passed by the state’s legislature is certainly an interesting one. Should President Trump face criminal charges for the wrongful deportations or the deaths of those two detainees?

Afaik, This country does not have a policy of criminally charging the POTUS for wrongful deportations or for when some rando shoots illegal immigrants. Is the Trump administration the first one to wrongly apprehend or deport someone who is here legally? Obama (aka the "deporter in chief") deported 3 million out of the country. If he has a secret for deporting that many people with no errors in 8 years, I wish he would share it with the world so we can all sleep better at night.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The threat of doxing could be used for ANY enforcement agency.

Enforcement officers of the government do not have a right to anonymity. They work for us. FBI get to walk around with masks on too next? You know, because of doxing and blood on people's hands?

 

[Shadowy Man]

If you mean the new mask law, that has been signed into law, but that does not necessarily mean it is constitutional at the federal level. Or do you have evidence it is?

Out of curiosity, what part of the Constitution might you think this violates? What rights would an ICE agent claim is being violated when he sues the state of California?

Does the federal government, in particular ICE, have a mandated policy that he must wear a mask and wear no uniform or identifying insignia? I could imagine if that were ICE policy then we might have a conflict between federal and state law.

 

[laughing dog]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The law applies to all law enforcement officers.

There are real people out there with nefarious intent wearing masks. Some of them are some ICE agents. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong with anonymous law enforcement officers hiding behind masks. Police officers don’t wear typically wear masks and they face real danger all the time.

The notion that signing or enforcing a law legally passed by the state’s legislature is certainly an interesting one. Should President Trump face criminal charges for the wrongful deportations or the deaths of those two detainees?

Afaik, This country does not have a policy of criminally charging the POTUS for wrongful deportations or for when some rando shoots illegal immigrants. Is the Trump administration the first one to wrongly apprehend or deport someone who is here legally? Obama (aka the "deporter in chief") deported 3 million out of the country. If he has a secret for deporting that many people with no errors in 8 years, I wish he would share it with the world so we can all sleep better at night.

This country didn’t have a policy of prosecuting special prosecutors or former FBI directors until now. This country didn’t have a not have a policy of masking ICE agents until now. So your concern about policy is a red herring.

The whataboutism about President Obama is pure evasion.

You’re the one musing about possible criminal charges against a governor for signing and/or enforcing a law legally passed by the legislature. From your response, your concern is driven by partisanship.

 

[laughing dog]

If you mean the new mask law, that has been signed into law, but that does not necessarily mean it is constitutional at the federal level. Or do you have evidence it is?

Out of curiosity, what part of the Constitution might you think this violates? What rights would an ICE agent claim is being violated when he sues the state of California?

Does the federal government, in particular ICE, have a mandated policy that he must wear a mask and wear no uniform or identifying insignia? I could imagine if that were ICE policy then we might have a conflict between federal and state law.

I would think state law trumps federal policy. Otherwise, the federal government could effectively obviate any state law by issuing policy.

 

[thebeave]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The threat of doxing could be used for ANY enforcement agency.

Enforcement officers of the government do not have a right to anonymity. They work for us. FBI get to walk around with masks on too next? You know, because of doxing and blood on people's hands?

Ever hear of LE going undercover? It's a common thing. You should look it up.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The threat of doxing could be used for ANY enforcement agency.

Enforcement officers of the government do not have a right to anonymity. They work for us. FBI get to walk around with masks on too next? You know, because of doxing and blood on people's hands?

Ever hear of LE going undercover? It's a common thing. You should look it up.

Every rule can have reasonable exceptions.

 

[thebeave]

If you mean the new mask law, that has been signed into law, but that does not necessarily mean it is constitutional at the federal level. Or do you have evidence it is?

Out of curiosity, what part of the Constitution might you think this violates? What rights would an ICE agent claim is being violated when he sues the state of California?

Does the federal government, in particular ICE, have a mandated policy that he must wear a mask and wear no uniform or identifying insignia? I could imagine if that were ICE policy then we might have a conflict between federal and state law.

The Supremecy clause in the constitution gives the federal government the upper hand over states. If there is a conflict between federal and state law, the federal wins. If necessary , the federal government could write into law that masks can be worn by ICE agents, and the state law would be nullified, correct? I would think the state has no business or authority telling federal employees how they must dress, but I could be wrong.

 

[thebeave]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The law applies to all law enforcement officers.

There are real people out there with nefarious intent wearing masks. Some of them are some ICE agents. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong with anonymous law enforcement officers hiding behind masks. Police officers don’t wear typically wear masks and they face real danger all the time.

The notion that signing or enforcing a law legally passed by the state’s legislature is certainly an interesting one. Should President Trump face criminal charges for the wrongful deportations or the deaths of those two detainees?

Afaik, This country does not have a policy of criminally charging the POTUS for wrongful deportations or for when some rando shoots illegal immigrants. Is the Trump administration the first one to wrongly apprehend or deport someone who is here legally? Obama (aka the "deporter in chief") deported 3 million out of the country. If he has a secret for deporting that many people with no errors in 8 years, I wish he would share it with the world so we can all sleep better at night.

This country didn’t have a policy of prosecuting special prosecutors or former FBI directors until now. This country didn’t have a not have a policy of masking ICE agents until now. So your concern about policy is a red herring.

The whataboutism about President Obama is pure evasion.

You’re the one musing about possible criminal charges against a governor for signing and/or enforcing a law legally passed by the legislature. From your response, your concern is driven by partisanship.

Your first sentence is a whataboutism. So just knock it off. You always pull the whataboutism card whenever you don't like the question or can't answer it. Its awfully tedious. Its a serious question. How did Obama manage to do it? We could learn some valuable tips.

 

[bilby]

Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

You have no idea just how much I hope so.

 

[laughing dog]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The law applies to all law enforcement officers.

There are real people out there with nefarious intent wearing masks. Some of them are some ICE agents. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong with anonymous law enforcement officers hiding behind masks. Police officers don’t wear typically wear masks and they face real danger all the time.

The notion that signing or enforcing a law legally passed by the state’s legislature is certainly an interesting one. Should President Trump face criminal charges for the wrongful deportations or the deaths of those two detainees?

Afaik, This country does not have a policy of criminally charging the POTUS for wrongful deportations or for when some rando shoots illegal immigrants. Is the Trump administration the first one to wrongly apprehend or deport someone who is here legally? Obama (aka the "deporter in chief") deported 3 million out of the country. If he has a secret for deporting that many people with no errors in 8 years, I wish he would share it with the world so we can all sleep better at night.

This country didn’t have a policy of prosecuting special prosecutors or former FBI directors until now. This country didn’t have a not have a policy of masking ICE agents until now. So your concern about policy is a red herring.

The whataboutism about President Obama is pure evasion.

You’re the one musing about possible criminal charges against a governor for signing and/or enforcing a law legally passed by the legislature. From your response, your concern is driven by partisanship.

Your first sentence is a whataboutism. So just knock it off. You always pull the whataboutism card whenever you don't like the question or can't answer it. Its awfully tedious. Its a serious question.

It wasn’t an whataboutism. I was pointing out that change in policy - you brought that up- is a rather stupid objection given this administration’s habit of changing longstanding policy.

How did Obama manage to do it? We could learn some valuable tips.

Still evading the question like a kneejerk partisan.

I suggest if you are truly serious, you send President Obama a letter or email.

I’d conjecture it was managed by competent professional civil servants instead of magatard nationalists.

 

[Shadowy Man]

If you mean the new mask law, that has been signed into law, but that does not necessarily mean it is constitutional at the federal level. Or do you have evidence it is?

Out of curiosity, what part of the Constitution might you think this violates? What rights would an ICE agent claim is being violated when he sues the state of California?

Does the federal government, in particular ICE, have a mandated policy that he must wear a mask and wear no uniform or identifying insignia? I could imagine if that were ICE policy then we might have a conflict between federal and state law.

The Supremecy clause in the constitution gives the federal government the upper hand over states. If there is a conflict between federal and state law, the federal wins. If necessary , the federal government could write into law that masks can be worn by ICE agents, and the state law would be nullified, correct? I would think the state has no business or authority telling federal employees how they must dress, but I could be wrong.

Sure, but in that case wouldn’t the feds need to codify the policy and then have it be violated by the state? Have they written this into law? If so would that be legitimizing this idea of “secret police”?