Charlie Kirk shot at (shot?) in Utah

[Bomb#20]

I have to say, this kind of situation really does exemplify what I have been saying about how those who have been apparently merely "rhetorically cheeky" up to now only did so as a pretext to support hate and horrors being visited on people, and that this was always where they were headed.

Yes, you were always Nazis, the word Nazi always applied, and none of it was a Godwin after all (although Godwin himself admitted that sometimes, the guy calling the other a Nazi... Well, sometimes in the current climate they are right!)

We always knew that fascism would come to the world wrapped in the visage of Christianity, but representing utter mal-social selfishness. It was written over 2000 years ago describing the actions of tyrants of the day and humanity at that scale is still the same as it ever was.

The hate will be spun so that it's image confuses people as to whether it is hate; the effects of the hate will be people harmed horribly and tortured all the same, but it will be presented to everyone else confusingly.

And that is what we see... Many words used to confuse the issue that Charlie Kirk was a fascist Nazi who hated gay people and preached that hate.

Any chance your alter ego is Barbos? Sorry, bad inside joke. Kirk wasn't a Nazi. The danger with considering that everyone is a Nazi, is that you'll be continuously at war with everyone, and the real enemy will grow in power. Just a thought...

Kirk was a Nazi.

I will gladly be at continual war with actual Nazis, thanks.

Charlie Kirk isn't "everyone" and for that matter neither is Bomb.

The each have histories of statements and support whether blatant in Kirk's case or cheeky in Bomb's. Either way, they stand for themselves.

I have no such history. You have a history of making false damaging claims about other posters with malice and reckless disregard for the truth.

I'm not at war with "everyone" but I will always be at war with "Nazis" heretics.

FIFY.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This kind of equivocation isn't helping anything. No one compares "everyone" to Nazis. People who know history compare those who espouse Nazi ideology to Nazis. Concepts like scientific racism, eugenics, anti-socialism, Aryan supremacy, and radical nationalism aren't inventions of "the left".

Which of those concepts did Kirk advocate?

I'll give you anti-socialism, perhaps. But the rest seems to be reaching a bit far. You don't have to like the guy, hell you can despise every one of his views as far as I'm concerned. But I'm so incredibly fucking tired of progressives sticking labels on people they don't like as if just calling someone a bigot actually makes it true. Use your damned brain and make a cogent argument once in a while.

I mean, you could stand to do a bit of research of your own. What are you even talking about? Not the real Charlie Kirk, that's certain. Though I imagine you would insist that any and all quotations in which Kirk advocated for race essentialism, European exceptionalism and so forth are all just liberal lies or something? I mean yes, I agree that his ideology "stretched too far" but he's the guy who stretched it. Would I call him a Nazi personally? No. There are intentional Nazi revivalists out there, and giving their label to others confuses things. But it's not like the comparison comes out of nowhere.

"Make a cogent argument"? I've filled the last few pages of evidence of exactly what kind of a man Kirk was, and what he advocated for and against. You present no evidence for your own views whatsoever, but accuse me of lacking a cogent argument? Honestly!

Words mean things. It's not my job to run disingenuous PR for a dead man, who wouldn't even want or appreciate my help were he alive. Nor yours. You claim to be a Democrat and a liberal, yes? You are defending the honor of someone who would have happily seen you committed or jailed, for what reason I cannot imagine.

Imagine, a hardcore feminist covering up for a Christian Dominionist who told teen girls to birth them babies instead of have a career, and if they went to college, only find a dude to be submissive with for life.

 

[Bomb#20]

... You sir are trivalizing hate.

Seriously, you are comparing trans people to Typhoid Mary.

That is sick. ...

Seriously, you are comparing trans people to Typhoid Mary.

smh

That is sick. In fact, your whole post is fucking sick.

I guess B20 ...

... At the end of the day, your argument is clever, but it's evasive. It shifts attention away from the real-world impact of Kirk's words and policies onto a word game about whether "hate" means subjective malice or objective harm. The effect on trans people is what's substantive.

Look at the misrepresented, sanitized, positions of Kirk all to set up straw men. Creationists tend to be less disingenuous. Sure looks like the writing of someone that supports Kirk/Heritage.org or someone that is severely snowed by their propaganda.

You are rearranging the tables and chairs on the Titanic here. Kirk advocated for dark stuff against transgender. It doesn't matter if he "hated" them. ... All that matters is what he did and advocated for. And what he advocated for was returning the US to the 19th Century.

I wouldn't be that charitable. It's just typical conservative denialism/willful ignorance.

I don’t think B20 would disagree, except maybe about what “culture” he was immersed in. He certainly goes off though, if it is implied that Chuckie in any way brought it on himself by hating or threatening trans people.

Try again dipstick. Typhoid Mary was infecting OTHERS. Transgendered people hurt NO ONE.

Good lord, what a firehose of stupid posts. The garbage you guys are saying about me, you have no right to believe on such evidence as is before you*. Hey, I get that logic isn't any of your strong suits -- if you were logical you wouldn't be leftists in the first place -- but seriously, you've gone off the deep end. Teaching all of you how to stop relying on invalid inference procedures is going to be a problem -- it looks to be a lifetime of work and I don't have that kind of time -- I'm already an old man. But we might as well get started, and just see how far we can get before my clock runs out. Who wants to go first?

(* The Ethics of Belief, Clifford, https://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf )

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

... You sir are trivalizing hate.

Seriously, you are comparing trans people to Typhoid Mary.

That is sick. ...

Seriously, you are comparing trans people to Typhoid Mary.

smh

That is sick. In fact, your whole post is fucking sick.

I guess B20 ...

... At the end of the day, your argument is clever, but it's evasive. It shifts attention away from the real-world impact of Kirk's words and policies onto a word game about whether "hate" means subjective malice or objective harm. The effect on trans people is what's substantive.

Look at the misrepresented, sanitized, positions of Kirk all to set up straw men. Creationists tend to be less disingenuous. Sure looks like the writing of someone that supports Kirk/Heritage.org or someone that is severely snowed by their propaganda.

You are rearranging the tables and chairs on the Titanic here. Kirk advocated for dark stuff against transgender. It doesn't matter if he "hated" them. ... All that matters is what he did and advocated for. And what he advocated for was returning the US to the 19th Century.

I wouldn't be that charitable. It's just typical conservative denialism/willful ignorance.

I don’t think B20 would disagree, except maybe about what “culture” he was immersed in. He certainly goes off though, if it is implied that Chuckie in any way brought it on himself by hating or threatening trans people.

Try again dipstick. Typhoid Mary was infecting OTHERS. Transgendered people hurt NO ONE.

Good lord, what a firehose of stupid posts. The garbage you guys are saying about me, you have no right to believe on such evidence as is before you*. Hey, I get that logic isn't any of your strong suits -- if you were logical you wouldn't be leftists in the first place -- but seriously, you've gone off the deep end. Teaching all of you how to stop relying on invalid inference procedures is going to be a problem -- it looks to be a lifetime of work and I don't have that kind of time -- I'm already an old man. But we might as well get started, and just see how far we can get before my clock runs out. Who wants to go first?

(* The Ethics of Belief, Clifford, https://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf )

That seems about par for the course. Can't defend your opinion, therefore you attack the posters.

Poor Kirk, the misunderstood Christian Dominionist who wanted women not to have careera and go to college to find a husband. Who didn't want a Muslim as mayor. The Future's 19th century man.

 

[laughing dog]

Hey, I get that logic isn't any of your strong suits -- if you were logical you wouldn't be leftists in the first place

Ahem.

 

[Elixir]

I know for sure that I do none of your “somebody” things, and don’t know anyone who does.

Um... you insinuated that I hate women simply because I want to uphold the exact same standards for abortion that existed under RvW.

You can infer whatever idiocy floats your boat, but that’s on you.

 

[Elixir]

... You sir are trivalizing hate.

Seriously, you are comparing trans people to Typhoid Mary.

That is sick. ...

Seriously, you are comparing trans people to Typhoid Mary.

smh

That is sick. In fact, your whole post is fucking sick.

I guess B20 ...

... At the end of the day, your argument is clever, but it's evasive. It shifts attention away from the real-world impact of Kirk's words and policies onto a word game about whether "hate" means subjective malice or objective harm. The effect on trans people is what's substantive.

Look at the misrepresented, sanitized, positions of Kirk all to set up straw men. Creationists tend to be less disingenuous. Sure looks like the writing of someone that supports Kirk/Heritage.org or someone that is severely snowed by their propaganda.

You are rearranging the tables and chairs on the Titanic here. Kirk advocated for dark stuff against transgender. It doesn't matter if he "hated" them. ... All that matters is what he did and advocated for. And what he advocated for was returning the US to the 19th Century.

I wouldn't be that charitable. It's just typical conservative denialism/willful ignorance.

I don’t think B20 would disagree, except maybe about what “culture” he was immersed in. He certainly goes off though, if it is implied that Chuckie in any way brought it on himself by hating or threatening trans people.

Try again dipstick. Typhoid Mary was infecting OTHERS. Transgendered people hurt NO ONE.

Good lord, what a firehose of stupid posts. The garbage you guys are saying about me, you have no right to believe on such evidence as is before you*. Hey, I get that logic isn't any of your strong suits -- if you were logical you wouldn't be leftists in the first place -- but seriously, you've gone off the deep end. Teaching all of you how to stop relying on invalid inference procedures is going to be a problem -- it looks to be a lifetime of work and I don't have that kind of time -- I'm already an old man. But we might as well get started, and just see how far we can get before my clock runs out. Who wants to go first?

(* The Ethics of Belief, Clifford, https://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf )

Nice bunch of personal invectives.
Your lofty opinion of yourself is belied by a stunning inability to address the points that have been laid out.
Your clock could tick on forever at this rate and you’d still just be an old redneck ranting semi- coherently about the intellectual shortcomings of anyone who isn’t a lockstep conservotard. I thought you could do better, and that’s on me.
Who wants to go first?
I’ll go first. Show me the golden wisdom of blaming your shortcomings on libtards!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Take as a premise that Kirk genuinely believed that transgender people are mentally ill, and that they represent a social danger. YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH THAT SENTIMENT YOU NUMBSKULLS - JUST TAKE IT AS THE PREMISE FOR THE ARGUMENT

From there, believing that mentally ill people who represent a social danger should be institutionalized is not hatred.

Indeed, it is not necessarily hatred. It could just be flat out ignorance or simply willful ignorant apathy.

But you did need to presume it wasn't hatred, in order to conclude it wasn't hatred (or apathy).

It's protection for them and for everyone else. It's just like institutionalizing a paranoid schizophrenic who can't be managed. There's no hatred involved.

Just early 20th century mental health practices. Indeed, it doesn't need to matter if he was saying all of this because he hated them or whether he was incredibly stupid for him to be utterly wrong.

Goddamn, I kind of feel like several of you desperately want a civil war.

That is okay, I feel like you only feign being feminist.

 

[Elixir]

Just early 20th century mental health practices.

Zackly. Bleeding heart conservatives call it “caring”. Slaves don’t have to run through the jungle and scuff up their feet, they are happy on the plantation. Likewise, people we consider crazy are much happier among their own in the big old “care facility” that we generously provide them*.

* WE will tell you who “they” are.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Hey, I get that logic isn't any of your strong suits -- if you were logical you wouldn't be leftists in the first place

Ahem.

In Bomb#20's defense, maybe he isn't insulting us. Maybe he cares about us in the same way Charlie Kirk cared about trans people--calling us defective for our own good.

And when the kangaroo court phase of our current fascism begins, perhaps he'll care so much that he'll volunteer as a witness to make sure we're safely institutionalized. All out of concern for all parties involved, of course.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

"If you were logical you wouldn't be leftists in the first place" yeah because the right wing has been known for its focus on incredible logical reasoning lately.

 

[Jarhyn]

When the options are to tolerate fascism or put down a coup, I would desperately choose civil war to return our constitutional freedoms.

This is quite the point.

If you would rather not have a civil war when Nazis stand in the halls of government to do Nazi things, that makes you a Nazi; it means you prefer Nazis in government.

I don't like the idea of a civil war.

I in fact hate it.

But I hate Nazis more than I hate wars.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

This past weekend an ex of mine called me. She's been doxxed from posts she made on FB regarding Kirk being a monstrous asshole. Death threats followed, her home address was publicly posted, and she's been put on leave from her job. She's almost certainly going to end up fired. There is no practical legal remedy for her. That made her furious with me, but that's why she's an ex.

Anyway, maybe someone can enlighten me. People are being concretely and measurably harmed for their speech by hundreds of thousands of private citizens on behalf of the government.

Is this a new thing?

There have usually been paramilitary organizations to do the dirty work, but private citizens doing the dirty work without direction or compensation from the government seems really strange.

ICE has become and will continue to grow as a paramilitary outfit, but again, that's a government organization.

Teach me some history.

 

[crazyfingers]

This past weekend an ex of mine called me. She's been doxxed from posts she made on FB regarding Kirk being a monstrous asshole. Death threats followed, her home address was publicly posted, and she's been put on leave from her job. She's almost certainly going to end up fired. There is no practical legal remedy for her. That made her furious with me, but that's why she's an ex.

Anyway, maybe someone can enlighten me. People are being concretely and measurably harmed for their speech by hundreds of thousands of private citizens on behalf of the government.

Is this a new thing?

There have usually been paramilitary organizations to do the dirty work, but private citizens doing the dirty work without direction or compensation from the government seems really strange.

ICE has become and will continue to grow as a paramilitary outfit, but again, that's a government organization.

Teach me some history.

Yes there was a time when the government used local snitches to turn in their neighbors for not being the right type of "patriotic". I suggest watching:

The Great War | American Experience | PBS

Discover how WWI transformed America through the stories of those whose participation in the war to “make the world safe for democracy” has been largely forgotten.

www.pbs.org

President Woodrow Wilson steered the nation through years of neutrality, only to reluctantly lead America into the bloodiest conflict the world had ever seen, thereby transforming the United States into a dominant player on the international stage; and how the ardent patriotism and determination to support America’s crusade for liberty abroad led to one of the most oppressive crackdowns on civil liberties at home in U.S. history.

You'll end up despising Woodrow Wilson.

 

[Toni]

I have to say, this kind of situation really does exemplify what I have been saying about how those who have been apparently merely "rhetorically cheeky" up to now only did so as a pretext to support hate and horrors being visited on people, and that this was always where they were headed.

Yes, you were always Nazis, the word Nazi always applied, and none of it was a Godwin after all (although Godwin himself admitted that sometimes, the guy calling the other a Nazi... Well, sometimes in the current climate they are right!)

We always knew that fascism would come to the world wrapped in the visage of Christianity, but representing utter mal-social selfishness. It was written over 2000 years ago describing the actions of tyrants of the day and humanity at that scale is still the same as it ever was.

The hate will be spun so that it's image confuses people as to whether it is hate; the effects of the hate will be people harmed horribly and tortured all the same, but it will be presented to everyone else confusingly.

And that is what we see... Many words used to confuse the issue that Charlie Kirk was a fascist Nazi who hated gay people and preached that hate.

Any chance your alter ego is Barbos? Sorry, bad inside joke. Kirk wasn't a Nazi. The danger with considering that everyone is a Nazi, is that you'll be continuously at war with everyone, and the real enemy will grow in power. Just a thought...

This kind of equivocation isn't helping anything. No one compares "everyone" to Nazis. People who know history compare those who espouse Nazi ideology to Nazis. Concepts like scientific racism, eugenics, anti-socialism, Aryan supremacy, and radical nationalism aren't inventions of "the left".

Seriously, you are comparing trans people to Typhoid Mary.

smh

That is sick. In fact, your whole post is fucking sick.

I guess B20 thinks I have made a giant unwarranted leap of faith, to believe that a guy in a relationship with a trans person killed someone who evinces hate for trans people, leaving an apologetic note for his trans partner … and making the unwarranted conjecture that these things could be related.
SHEESH!!

But it’s not a leap of faith for him to imply that since we don’t know that he’s not a boilerplate liberal gunslinger, (common as such folk are) he might well have been a Hillary-loving lib’rul murderer.

Ooookay, dude.

I think I must be missing something; B20 isn’t usually so reactionary.

Something SURELY unrelated, but to feed his confirmation bias, the MI shooter’s lifted pickup truck flying its dual ‘Murkin flags, - tha guy was probably another lib.
But we wouldn’t want to jump to conclusions, right?

JFC, did you guys smoke too much?

Bomb didn't compare transgender people to typhoid mary, get your damned brains checked. Seriously, this is not difficult.

Take as a premise that Kirk genuinely believed that transgender people are mentally ill, and that they represent a social danger. YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH THAT SENTIMENT YOU NUMBSKULLS - JUST TAKE IT AS THE PREMISE FOR THE ARGUMENT

From there, believing that mentally ill people who represent a social danger should be institutionalized is not hatred. It's protection for them and for everyone else. It's just like institutionalizing a paranoid schizophrenic who can't be managed. There's no hatred involved.

And again - you don't have to agree with the sentiment to understand the viewpoint. In fact, understanding the viewpoint and where it's coming from is the only way you can possibly change anyone's mind. Otherwise all you're left with is your own personal pogrom killing heretics.

Goddamn, I kind of feel like several of you desperately want a civil war.

Please enlighten us because I don't 'understand where it's coming from' if my understanding that it comes from a place of ignorance and bigotry and hatred is incorrect.

Which it may be.

You know that I do have concerns about MtF trans individuals in women's and girls' sports. It may be less a concern than I sometimes worry about--I very well remember the sports scene for girls and women prior to Title IX which has not erased all of the inequalities. I do have a difficult time believing that men and boys would fake being trans in order to participate but it's possible. And I do have some concerns about MtF trans individuals in women's private spaces such as locker rooms. Again, it's probably only rarely an issue and in almost all cases there's not a problem. But there are occasionally individuals who use the cover of being MtF in order to have easier access to their preferred victims. We need to find a way to safeguard against this.

 

[Jarhyn]

I have to say, this kind of situation really does exemplify what I have been saying about how those who have been apparently merely "rhetorically cheeky" up to now only did so as a pretext to support hate and horrors being visited on people, and that this was always where they were headed.

Yes, you were always Nazis, the word Nazi always applied, and none of it was a Godwin after all (although Godwin himself admitted that sometimes, the guy calling the other a Nazi... Well, sometimes in the current climate they are right!)

We always knew that fascism would come to the world wrapped in the visage of Christianity, but representing utter mal-social selfishness. It was written over 2000 years ago describing the actions of tyrants of the day and humanity at that scale is still the same as it ever was.

The hate will be spun so that it's image confuses people as to whether it is hate; the effects of the hate will be people harmed horribly and tortured all the same, but it will be presented to everyone else confusingly.

And that is what we see... Many words used to confuse the issue that Charlie Kirk was a fascist Nazi who hated gay people and preached that hate.

Any chance your alter ego is Barbos? Sorry, bad inside joke. Kirk wasn't a Nazi. The danger with considering that everyone is a Nazi, is that you'll be continuously at war with everyone, and the real enemy will grow in power. Just a thought...

This kind of equivocation isn't helping anything. No one compares "everyone" to Nazis. People who know history compare those who espouse Nazi ideology to Nazis. Concepts like scientific racism, eugenics, anti-socialism, Aryan supremacy, and radical nationalism aren't inventions of "the left".

Seriously, you are comparing trans people to Typhoid Mary.

smh

That is sick. In fact, your whole post is fucking sick.

I guess B20 thinks I have made a giant unwarranted leap of faith, to believe that a guy in a relationship with a trans person killed someone who evinces hate for trans people, leaving an apologetic note for his trans partner … and making the unwarranted conjecture that these things could be related.
SHEESH!!

But it’s not a leap of faith for him to imply that since we don’t know that he’s not a boilerplate liberal gunslinger, (common as such folk are) he might well have been a Hillary-loving lib’rul murderer.

Ooookay, dude.

I think I must be missing something; B20 isn’t usually so reactionary.

Something SURELY unrelated, but to feed his confirmation bias, the MI shooter’s lifted pickup truck flying its dual ‘Murkin flags, - tha guy was probably another lib.
But we wouldn’t want to jump to conclusions, right?

JFC, did you guys smoke too much?

Bomb didn't compare transgender people to typhoid mary, get your damned brains checked. Seriously, this is not difficult.

Take as a premise that Kirk genuinely believed that transgender people are mentally ill, and that they represent a social danger. YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH THAT SENTIMENT YOU NUMBSKULLS - JUST TAKE IT AS THE PREMISE FOR THE ARGUMENT

From there, believing that mentally ill people who represent a social danger should be institutionalized is not hatred. It's protection for them and for everyone else. It's just like institutionalizing a paranoid schizophrenic who can't be managed. There's no hatred involved.

And again - you don't have to agree with the sentiment to understand the viewpoint. In fact, understanding the viewpoint and where it's coming from is the only way you can possibly change anyone's mind. Otherwise all you're left with is your own personal pogrom killing heretics.

Goddamn, I kind of feel like several of you desperately want a civil war.

Please enlighten us because I don't 'understand where it's coming from' if my understanding that it comes from a place of ignorance and bigotry and hatred is incorrect.

Which it may be.

You know that I do have concerns about MtF trans individuals in women's and girls' sports. It may be less a concern than I sometimes worry about--I very well remember the sports scene for girls and women prior to Title IX which has not erased all of the inequalities. I do have a difficult time believing that men and boys would fake being trans in order to participate but it's possible. And I do have some concerns about MtF trans individuals in women's private spaces such as locker rooms. Again, it's probably only rarely an issue and in almost all cases there's not a problem. But there are occasionally individuals who use the cover of being MtF in order to have easier access to their preferred victims. We need to find a way to safeguard against this.

Gonna focus on that last sentence: how deep is this need you profess?

Do we need to find ways to safeguard "women" from predator "women" who use their shared "woman" status as cover to predate?

I would argue that MtF incidents are even less of a concern than CIS women doing such things or that they are similarly prevalent occurrences...

So how much do we need this?

Do we need it so much that we tear up sports, or do we allow the sports leagues to maintain whatever sanity needs be maintained through internal policy decided by those whose interests in the result lie in the interest that led them to be pivotal in said internal regulating body?

Because it looks to me like the people most obsessed about trans people have never been Democrats.

What would normally be a few pages of quiet discussion about something obscure ends up being reams of posts denying the existence of us at all.

Do we need to do it so badly that we tear apart our country, burning it down to end trans healthcare at all?

I really question at this point how much we really need that.

 

[Elixir]

Even if “Nazi” only applies to people who support Nazi ideology like Trump does, Charlie was a full on proponent.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There have been several more "incidents" lately, some that can be pinned to the left and some that can be pinned to the right. So far it seems everyone is engaged in "look what your side just did" instead of any sort of bigger picture.

The violence is accelerating.

I used to watch Tim Pool until he kept going on and on about upcoming civil war. Now I'm beginning to think he was on to something.

Look at this quote from Jahryn for example.

I don't like the idea of a civil war.

I in fact hate it.

But I hate Nazis more than I hate wars.

I'm beginning to think Jahryn actually believes Trump is a Nazi.

Even if “Nazi” only applies to people who support Nazi ideology like Trump does, Charlie was a full on proponent.

I am certain Elixir believes it. Perhaps that explains Elixir's fascination with gas ovens - maybe Elixir would like one in which to put the "nazis" into gas ovens.

Once you dehumanize the "other" side, you no longer have to treat them like people.

Trump is a disappointment to me, but then all presidents have been. His crime is rising to the top outside of the standard pathways. A person is supposed to start in lower offices, work their way up, and then jump from either governor or senator to president. Eisenhower was the allowable exception because he rose through the military, but he did rise through the system.

By the time anyone else is in a position to run there is so much dirt on them and dirt on their hands that they go along and get along. Doesn't matter which party, there isn't as much difference as people pretend.

Trumps position on the border is the same as that of Clinton. He failed to get rid of support for Ukraine. He's a 1990's New York City Democrat through and through. He's particularly scary because he now has in his tool kit the weapons prepared by the Democrats to bring him down. Every time, every damn time, I say "be careful the powers you give to your guy, the other guy will eventually wield them." I've been right every time I've said that.

You can call him Hitler or Nazi, or you can try to arrest this trend towards civil war. You can't have both. Which do you want? Do you want civil war? If you don't want it, what are you doing to defuse the current atmosphere?

 

[crazyfingers]

This past weekend an ex of mine called me. She's been doxxed from posts she made on FB regarding Kirk being a monstrous asshole. Death threats followed, her home address was publicly posted, and she's been put on leave from her job. She's almost certainly going to end up fired. There is no practical legal remedy for her. That made her furious with me, but that's why she's an ex.

Anyway, maybe someone can enlighten me. People are being concretely and measurably harmed for their speech by hundreds of thousands of private citizens on behalf of the government.

Is this a new thing?

There have usually been paramilitary organizations to do the dirty work, but private citizens doing the dirty work without direction or compensation from the government seems really strange.

ICE has become and will continue to grow as a paramilitary outfit, but again, that's a government organization.

Teach me some history.

Yes there was a time when the government used local snitches to turn in their neighbors for not being the right type of "patriotic". I suggest watching:

The Great War | American Experience | PBS

Discover how WWI transformed America through the stories of those whose participation in the war to “make the world safe for democracy” has been largely forgotten.

www.pbs.org

President Woodrow Wilson steered the nation through years of neutrality, only to reluctantly lead America into the bloodiest conflict the world had ever seen, thereby transforming the United States into a dominant player on the international stage; and how the ardent patriotism and determination to support America’s crusade for liberty abroad led to one of the most oppressive crackdowns on civil liberties at home in U.S. history.

You'll end up despising Woodrow Wilson.

If you want to start with the repression of civil liberties, go to part 2

 

[Jarhyn]

I'm beginning to think Jahryn actually believes Trump is a Nazi.

He is.

When the only thing you read is Hitler's speeches, when that's what is on your nightstand, that means whoever you are, you are a Nazi...

That describes Trump, therefore Trump is a Nazi.

We don't need to go on about all the Nazi things and Nazi laws and Nazi positions he takes, though we could.