Chicago Teachers Union celebrates a cop killer

[Shadowy Man]

As usual, you are not willing to do any fact checking yourself. The police officers were Brian Sicknick,

Stroke

Jeffrey Smith

Suicide

Howard Liebengood,

Suicide

Gunther Hashida,

Suicide

and Kyle DeFreytag.

Suicide

That you try to use people’s tragic deaths for your silly argument is shameful.

What is shameful is that the people who inflicted the trauma which led to one stroke and four suicides have been excused for their crimes because their political views coincide with the current power.

It is an even greater shame to dismiss the loss of these men as irrelevant to this discussion about the treatment of "cop killers". As you have shown, the cops don't matter.

In Tswizzle’s world those four suicides and a stroke are just coincidences with the invasion of the Capitol.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

lol, you can’t name them.

What's that got to do with anything? They were simply cops doing their duty, nothing about their conduct caused their names to be splashed across the news. Names get splashed across the news when they do something that stands out from the ordinary.

We know the J6er that got shot because storming Congress is not exactly normal activity. Cops shooting attackers is part of their job, the events are newsworthy but their names are not.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As usual, you are not willing to do any fact checking yourself. The police officers were Brian Sicknick,

Stroke

Stroke immediately after major trauma is normally due to the trauma. You get injuries, clots form, clots break loose. Stroke, heart attack, and pulmonary embolism can happen.

 

[Gospel]

Joanne Chesimard (alias "Assata Shakur"), a BLA terrorist who was involved in the fatal ambush of police officers in 1973, finally kicked the bucket. It would have been better had she died in prison where she belonged, and not hiding out in Cuba, but it is what it is.

Her birth name was JoAnne Deborah Byron. She later took the name Assata Shakur, Chesimard was just her ex-husband’s surname. But I get it, the details don’t matter to you; in your view she’ll always be a cop killer, even though the evidence for that was shaky at best.

 

[Derec]

Her birth name was JoAnne Deborah Byron. She later took the name Assata Shakur, Chesimard was just her ex-husband’s surname.

That's the name FBI used on their most wanted poster for this domestic terrorist:
JOANNE DEBORAH CHESIMARD
I guess it was her legal name.

But I get it, the details don’t matter to you; in your view she’ll always be a cop killer, even though the evidence for that was shaky at best.

She was duly convicted of that. She was also accused of other crimes, but feds could not get convictions on those - often on technicalities - which does not mean she was not guilty of those as well.
I know her fans say that she could not have pulled the trigger after she was shot herself. But even if that were true - and the jury rejected that argument - she was still an active member of a domestic terrorist organization and she still participated in the deadly ambush of police officers. So, felony murder at the very least.

 

[Derec]

Once you read in the OP "it would have been better had she died in prison...", you know all there is to know about the OP.

She was a domestic terrorist who, with her BLA comrades, ambushed police officers and either shot one herself or at the very least participated in the murder.
Why should she not have died in prison?

 

[Derec]

"Schools should be places of education, not indoctrination," rants area man outraged that teachers are allowed to disagree with his politics.

Where did I say that teachers should not be allowed to have their own political opinions?

What does that have to do with a union expressing support for a domestic terrorist and convicted murderer?

 

[Derec]

Officers died as a result of their injuries.

It's still a whataboutism and an off-topic derail, since it has nothing to do with the Chicago Teachers Union praising and supporting a far-left cop killer and domestic terrorist.

 

[laughing dog]

Once you read in the OP "it would have been better had she died in prison...", you know all there is to know about the OP.

She was a domestic terrorist who, with her BLA comrades, ambushed police officers and either shot one herself or at the very least participated in the murder.
Why should she not have died in prison?

A better question is why is this a big deal to anyone?

 

[laughing dog]

"Schools should be places of education, not indoctrination," rants area man outraged that teachers are allowed to disagree with his politics.

Where did I say that teachers should not be allowed to have their own political opinions?

What does that have to do with a union expressing support for a domestic terrorist and convicted murderer?

Nothing. Just like “Schools should be places of education not indoctrination” has nothing to do with a union expressing any opinion about anything.

 

[Derec]

Are you serious? I know one person who does not think those who assaulted cops, (which resulted in a higher than average short term death rate for law enforcement) deserve to be in prison. You may have heard of him. He's on Fox News all the time.

We are not on Fox News, and your hobby horse is still an off-topic derail in this thread.

https://archives.law.virginia.edu/d...ssata-shakur-tried-murder-and-assault-charges

Whoever wrote this, and there is no author listed, is here writing a rather biased account of what happened.

On May 2, 1973, Shakur participated in a shoot-out on the New Jersey Turnpike that resulted in the death of one state trooper and the wounding of another.

So far, so good. It does not mention the background that led the trio of domestic terrorists to ambush police officers. I found this contemporary NY Times article:
Woman Captured in Shoot‐Out Called ‘Soul’ Of Black Militants

Joanne Chesimard, who wasI wounded and captured after a shoot‐out on the New Jersey Turnpike yesterday, has been described by the police here as a central figure in an amalgam, of black militants who have been linked to the murders and attempted murders of policemen.
The group, calling itself the Black Liberation Army, also has been linked by lawzenforcement authorities to bank robberies and ambushes in Philadelphia, Atlanta, St. Louis and North Carolina.
Miss Chesimard, described by one former high‐ranking police official here as “the soul of the movement,” has been wanted here for six crimes, including the attempted murder of two policemen.
In the attempted ‐ murder case, she and a companion allegedly threw a hand grenade at a police car that was pursuing them through Maspeth, Queens, on Dec. 20, 1971. The grenade exploded and demolished the car, but the two officers inside were not seriously injured.

So, she was already wanted for serious crimes as part of her BLA terrorist activities. That gave her and her comrades a strong motive to ambush cops on the NJ Turnpike when they were stopped.

Assata Shakur was taken into custody. She conceived a child in prison, and the consideration of her pregnancy resulted in a mistrial. Meanwhile, the City of New York piled charge after charge on Shakur, using weak evidence and the rationale that the BLA had to be stopped. But juries recognized the prosecution’s fragile cases. They dismissed or acquitted, over and over, and as Shakur waited to be tried on the murder and assault charges from the Turnpike shooting, civil rights groups began to see her as a symbol for courage in the face of oppression."

Yeah, a completely biased writeup. But at least it shows so-called "civil rights groups" losing the plot by then. There is nothing "civil rights" about ambushing and murdering cops.

Back to NY Times:

She also is wanted for two bank robberies—one in Queens on Aug. 23, 1971, and one in the Bronx last Sept. 29.
She also has been sought for questioning about the ambush slaying of Officers Gregory Foster and Rocco Laurie, who were shot on the Lower East Side on Jan. 27, 1972.
And last January, after four policemen were wounded in two ambushes of police cars in Brooklyn and in Queens, former Police Commissioner Patrick V. Murphy announced that Miss Chesimard and five men were wanted as the assailants. Mr. Murphy described all six as members of the Black Liberation Army.

BLA were a very violent group opposed to the US, and Chesimard was a very active terrorist within the group. The article goes on in a similar vein, detailing further crimes committed by the group.

It appears she was just involved in a disturbance that resulted in the death of a police officer, which as we heave seen is no longer a crime.

A deadly ambush is hardly just a "disturbance".
Your apologetics for domestic terrorism from the left is as ridiculous as it is disturbing.

 

[Toni]

Officers died as a result of their injuries.

It's still a whataboutism and an off-topic derail, since it has nothing to do with the Chicago Teachers Union praising and supporting a far-left cop killer and domestic terrorist.

Jan. 6 was domestic terrorism and insurrection.

I was pretty young when the killing happened so I don’t remember this event—too much else was going on in my family. I cannot comment on the particulars of who did what and what was/was not justified and who was responsible. I don’t believe you were born yet.

I mention this only because I can easily see similar times coming or maybe worse.

I’m not in favor of capital punishment for a lot of reasons. There are not many circumstances under which I would sentence anybody to life in prison. She has always maintained that she could not have fired the shot of course people lie all the time but it is worth considering that she may have been telling the truth.

You might perhaps consider, in the privacy of your own home or own head, whether you certainty that she murdered a police officer and should have received the death penalty is objective or whether you are influenced because she is black and female and it was a police officer who died. Just as a thought exercise. No need to share your conclusions.

I’m only writing this because I’ve done the same ( considered whether the individuals involved were guilty/culpable based on their characteristics and not the cold facts). Sometimes it’s changed how I think.

In any case, I think it’s important to consider what influences our beliefs.

 

[Derec]

Nothing. Just like “Schools should be places of education not indoctrination” has nothing to do with a union expressing any opinion about anything.

Do you really think that a teachers' union expressing an extremist political position has no effect of what is peddled in the classroom?

A different black nationalist cop killer, but a clear case of indoctrination in the classroom:
Teacher suspended after class write notes to Mumia Abu-Jamal

At least this pos is rotting in prison.

 

[Toni]

Are you serious? I know one person who does not think those who assaulted cops, (which resulted in a higher than average short term death rate for law enforcement) deserve to be in prison. You may have heard of him. He's on Fox News all the time.

We are not on Fox News, and your hobby horse is still an off-topic derail in this thread.

https://archives.law.virginia.edu/d...ssata-shakur-tried-murder-and-assault-charges

Whoever wrote this, and there is no author listed, is here writing a rather biased account of what happened.

On May 2, 1973, Shakur participated in a shoot-out on the New Jersey Turnpike that resulted in the death of one state trooper and the wounding of another.

So far, so good. It does not mention the background that led the trio of domestic terrorists to ambush police officers. I found this contemporary NY Times article:
Woman Captured in Shoot‐Out Called ‘Soul’ Of Black Militants

Joanne Chesimard, who wasI wounded and captured after a shoot‐out on the New Jersey Turnpike yesterday, has been described by the police here as a central figure in an amalgam, of black militants who have been linked to the murders and attempted murders of policemen.
The group, calling itself the Black Liberation Army, also has been linked by lawzenforcement authorities to bank robberies and ambushes in Philadelphia, Atlanta, St. Louis and North Carolina.
Miss Chesimard, described by one former high‐ranking police official here as “the soul of the movement,” has been wanted here for six crimes, including the attempted murder of two policemen.
In the attempted ‐ murder case, she and a companion allegedly threw a hand grenade at a police car that was pursuing them through Maspeth, Queens, on Dec. 20, 1971. The grenade exploded and demolished the car, but the two officers inside were not seriously injured.

So, she was already wanted for serious crimes as part of her BLA terrorist activities. That gave her and her comrades a strong motive to ambush cops on the NJ Turnpike when they were stopped.

Assata Shakur was taken into custody. She conceived a child in prison, and the consideration of her pregnancy resulted in a mistrial. Meanwhile, the City of New York piled charge after charge on Shakur, using weak evidence and the rationale that the BLA had to be stopped. But juries recognized the prosecution’s fragile cases. They dismissed or acquitted, over and over, and as Shakur waited to be tried on the murder and assault charges from the Turnpike shooting, civil rights groups began to see her as a symbol for courage in the face of oppression."

Yeah, a completely biased writeup. But at least it shows so-called "civil rights groups" losing the plot by then. There is nothing "civil rights" about ambushing and murdering cops.

Back to NY Times:

She also is wanted for two bank robberies—one in Queens on Aug. 23, 1971, and one in the Bronx last Sept. 29.
She also has been sought for questioning about the ambush slaying of Officers Gregory Foster and Rocco Laurie, who were shot on the Lower East Side on Jan. 27, 1972.
And last January, after four policemen were wounded in two ambushes of police cars in Brooklyn and in Queens, former Police Commissioner Patrick V. Murphy announced that Miss Chesimard and five men were wanted as the assailants. Mr. Murphy described all six as members of the Black Liberation Army.

BLA were a very violent group opposed to the US, and Chesimard was a very active terrorist within the group. The article goes on in a similar vein.

It appears she was just involved in a disturbance that resulted in the death of a police officer, which as we heave seen is no longer a crime.

A deadly ambush is hardly just a "disturbance".
Your apologetics for domestic terrorism from the left is as ridiculous as it is disturbing.

You skipped the part about her being raped in prison.

 

[Derec]

This tells everyone that you have no real awareness of what happened that day. Several police personnel died as a result of the event.

Who is "several"? I know one (Brian Sicknick) suffered a stroke, probably as an effect of what happened. Who are the others though?

For the record, I do think everybody involved in things like assaulting cops should serve substantial prison sentences. Those who were merely trespassing, not so much.
And this is still a derail here.

But you don't care about that. To say "a female protester was killed by a cop" misrepresents what actually happened - she was attempting to illegally enter the building for the purpose of enabling more of the insurrectionists to enter. She was a former member of the military, so she was violating her oath. Her death was the result of her own actions. She was not a "protester".

Funny how the same people who think killing an unarmed white woman for trespassing is justified also think that killing an unarmed black man who assaulted a police officer is not only unjustified, but also justifies violent riots and arson (aka, "burn this bitch down").

 

[Derec]

You skipped the part about her being raped in prison.

Is there any evidence of that?
And even if it were true, that would not justify what she did, nor would it justify her being broken from prison and not serving her sentence.

 

[Toni]

You skipped the part about her being raped in prison.

Is there any evidence of that?
And even if it were true, that would not justify what she did, nor would it justify her being broken from prison and not serving her sentence.

She conceived a child in prison. It’s in the NYT snippet you posted. I doubt that there were conjugal visits. And while the laws of the day did not necessarily recognize that sex between a prison guard and an inmate could not possibly be consensual, that’s how it is understood today.

 

[laughing dog]

Nothing. Just like “Schools should be places of education not indoctrination” has nothing to do with a union expressing any opinion about anything.

Do you really think that a teachers' union expressing an extremist political position has no effect of what is peddled in the classroom?

As a retired member of a teachers’ union, I know so.

 

[laughing dog]

Funny how the same people who think killing an unarmed white woman for trespassing is justified also think that killing an unarmed black man who assaulted a police officer is not only unjustified, but also justifies violent riots and arson (aka, "burn this bitch down").

Who are you talking about? It isn’t Ashley Babbitt because she was part of a bloodthirsty insurrectionist mob. And you cannot be talking about George Floyd, because he didn’t assault anyone.

 

[Emily Lake]

My argument is solid. I said that their deaths were a result of J6. I never said that they occurred at the event itself.

Do you also take the position with respect to any police who were involved in riots after Floyd's death, and who subsequently committed suicide, or died from stroke, heart attack, or other stress-related event? Or is this attribution of responsibility related solely to this one event, and not applicable to any other similar civil unrest?