Are we now in full blown fascist totalitarianism?

[Jarhyn]

Someone that says Truth Social and Twitter are free speech "extremists" cannot be taken seriously.

How aren't they?

They don't even approximate free speech. It's all about MAGA speech, not free speech for the opposition.

I am aside here, DrZ typifies what I would consider "The European Problem": certain behaviors are so normalized and ubiquitous across Europe that they become unable to see it, much like how I imagine it might be hard for a mideval Londoner to identify quite how bad the smell of shit in the streets was.

They have just been living in that mess so long it just seems normal, and maybe it IS normal.

So while Europe has just as mangled awful history and fairly horrific prejudices, they're all things they blithely fail to notice because they're endemic like shit in the streets of 1700's London.

I heard people in NL taking the same positions that I the US, over the course of my life, became MAGA.

I have no doubt that if when Trump had unlimited has sufficient power he's going to be banning liberal speech, freedom of assembly for liberals, ban liberal leaning press and would will be executing liberals in the streets.

FTFY.

He's not even a year into his (nominal) four year term yet. And his power has been growing very rapidly, and with little effective push-back.

And directly accelerating in the described direction.

And Ems just refuses to see it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What could go wrong?

https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/09/politics/dominion-voting-systems-bought-election-ballots

Also I'm totally for not using electronic voting systems, but seems clear what's happening here.

It's much easier to tamper with paper ballots than with a properly journaling electronic system. Ours had ginormous paper rolls that you could see your vote was printed onto--you can't tamper with the totals without replacing the tapes also.

And it's now renamed Liberty Vote.

https://thehill.com/business/5547784-dominion-voting-systems-liberty-vote/

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Does anyone doubt that they intend to lead the US into full blown fascism, if no one stops them? Does anyone doubt that that may not be possible, given how much power over all branches of government that they now hold?

it’s up to voters to change things.

There won't be another honest election.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Pay more attention. He's gone a long way towards controlling society.

Yet you're able to post here without fear of reprisals. How come you are not afraid the FBI will come for you and make you disappear?

We are little fish. Small board, not a lot of attention.

We've seen pretty severe reactions to people posting things on Facebook.

Oh, stop it. A signifying symptom of fascism is that everyone lives in fear of reprisals if they speak out. They make sure all the fish are afraid. That's what the "total-" in "totalitarianism" is about. The funny thing is that USA is probably the least fascist and totalitarian country on the planet. The latitude of socialy permitted behaviour in USA, as long as it's not sexual, is greater than anywhere else. Especially expressing political opinions. And Americans are very vigilant about it. As this thread demonstrates. Americans are very sensitive about having their right to free expression. So it comes across as a bit humorous when Americans start complaining about living in a fascist totalitarian state. The norm, around the world, is to not have opinions about anything remotely controversial in public. Because doing so is dangerous.

You are describing how America used to be. That doesn't prove things aren't changing.

Don't get me wrong, I can see all the fascist tendencies of Trump. There's a lot of fascist behaviour and tendencies in Trump. Not just behaviour, but framing. A signifier of fascism is that it's the idea that the country has been humiliated somehow and needs to be born again. All that talk is straight up from the fascist playbook.

But it's still not fascism. Right now the "most fascist" side in USA right now is the left. They're extremely intolerant, arrogant of how right they are and not above abusing the law to force their way ahead. As well as using bullying and social pressure to crush anyone who dares to not conform.

So in the American context nitpicking on Trump for showing some fascist tendencies is pretty hilarious. I think the fascism of Trump and MAGA is just them copying the left because the left right now is a very bad influence.

What is needed is for everyone to take a deep breath and remember the context that led to the enlightenment and then democracy and what we need to do to make it work. Namely, to tolerate those who we don't agree with. It would be great if Antifa would stop rioting right now. It's not cool. Occupy wall street was complete bullshit. The Black Lives Matter protests were hardly orderly. I have no problem imagining that American conservatives are sick of that bullshit and start leaning toward fascism right now. It's still not fascism. It's just fermented fish sauce. Not a whole rotting fish.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Pay more attention. He's gone a long way towards controlling society.

Yet you're able to post here without fear of reprisals. How come you are not afraid the FBI will come for you and make you disappear?

We are little fish. Small board, not a lot of attention.

We've seen pretty severe reactions to people posting things on Facebook.

Oh, stop it. A signifying symptom of fascism is that everyone lives in fear of reprisals if they speak out. They make sure all the fish are afraid. That's what the "total-" in "totalitarianism" is about. The funny thing is that USA is probably the least fascist and totalitarian country on the planet. The latitude of socialy permitted behaviour in USA, as long as it's not sexual, is greater than anywhere else. Especially expressing political opinions. And Americans are very vigilant about it. As this thread demonstrates. Americans are very sensitive about having their right to free expression. So it comes across as a bit humorous when Americans start complaining about living in a fascist totalitarian state. The norm, around the world, is to not have opinions about anything remotely controversial in public. Because doing so is dangerous.

You are describing how America used to be. That doesn't prove things aren't changing.

Don't get me wrong, I can see all the fascist tendencies of Trump. There's a lot of fascist behaviour and tendencies in Trump. Not just behaviour, but framing. A signifier of fascism is that it's the idea that the country has been humiliated somehow and needs to be born again. All that talk is straight up from the fascist playbook.

But it's still not fascism. Right now the "most fascist" side in USA right now is the left. They're extremely intolerant, arrogant of how right they are and not above abusing the law to force their way ahead. As well as using bullying and social pressure to crush anyone who dares to not conform.

So in the American context nitpicking on Trump for showing some fascist tendencies is pretty hilarious. I think the fascism of Trump and MAGA is just them copying the left because the left right now is a very bad influence.

What is needed is for everyone to take a deep breath and remember the context that led to the enlightenment and then democracy and what we need to do to make it work. Namely, to tolerate those who we don't agree with. It would be great if Antifa would stop rioting right now. It's not cool. Occupy wall street was complete bullshit. The Black Lives Matter protests were hardly orderly. I have no problem imagining that American conservatives are sick of that bullshit and start leaning toward fascism right now. It's still not fascism. It's just fermented fish sauce. Not a whole rotting fish.

The statement where I have bolded the word left would become correct if you replaced the word left with right. The right are the ones with the power to abuse the law.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Chris Christie Accuses Trump of Using DoJ Like a Mob Boss: 'Executes Hits' on Political Enemies

Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) accused President Donald Trump of using the Justice Department like a mafia crime boss would — to execute "hits" against his political enemies.

www.mediaite.com

“We know why this was done: it was done because Donald Trump told the Justice Department to prosecute Letitia James. And when the professionals there wouldn’t do it, he put somebody in who would just follow his instruction — whose previous jobs was reviewing exhibits at the Smithsonian.”

He continued: “Here’s the difference between Trump II and Trump I… this is no longer, the Department of Justice, is no longer the premier prosecuting office in America. What it is now is a capo regime who goes out and executes hits when directed by the Don to do so. That’s what it is.”

 

[DrZoidberg]

Pay more attention. He's gone a long way towards controlling society.

Yet you're able to post here without fear of reprisals. How come you are not afraid the FBI will come for you and make you disappear?

We are little fish. Small board, not a lot of attention.

We've seen pretty severe reactions to people posting things on Facebook.

Oh, stop it. A signifying symptom of fascism is that everyone lives in fear of reprisals if they speak out. They make sure all the fish are afraid. That's what the "total-" in "totalitarianism" is about. The funny thing is that USA is probably the least fascist and totalitarian country on the planet. The latitude of socialy permitted behaviour in USA, as long as it's not sexual, is greater than anywhere else. Especially expressing political opinions. And Americans are very vigilant about it. As this thread demonstrates. Americans are very sensitive about having their right to free expression. So it comes across as a bit humorous when Americans start complaining about living in a fascist totalitarian state. The norm, around the world, is to not have opinions about anything remotely controversial in public. Because doing so is dangerous.

You are describing how America used to be. That doesn't prove things aren't changing.

Don't get me wrong, I can see all the fascist tendencies of Trump. There's a lot of fascist behaviour and tendencies in Trump. Not just behaviour, but framing. A signifier of fascism is that it's the idea that the country has been humiliated somehow and needs to be born again. All that talk is straight up from the fascist playbook.

But it's still not fascism. Right now the "most fascist" side in USA right now is the left. They're extremely intolerant, arrogant of how right they are and not above abusing the law to force their way ahead. As well as using bullying and social pressure to crush anyone who dares to not conform.

So in the American context nitpicking on Trump for showing some fascist tendencies is pretty hilarious. I think the fascism of Trump and MAGA is just them copying the left because the left right now is a very bad influence.

What is needed is for everyone to take a deep breath and remember the context that led to the enlightenment and then democracy and what we need to do to make it work. Namely, to tolerate those who we don't agree with. It would be great if Antifa would stop rioting right now. It's not cool. Occupy wall street was complete bullshit. The Black Lives Matter protests were hardly orderly. I have no problem imagining that American conservatives are sick of that bullshit and start leaning toward fascism right now. It's still not fascism. It's just fermented fish sauce. Not a whole rotting fish.

The statement where I have bolded the word left would become correct if you replaced the word left with right. The right are the ones with the power to abuse the law.

I was talking about events prior to the latest election. Events which, no doubt, helped Trump to power. It's the behaviour of the left that the current Trump administration is reacting against.

There are paralells in history. Without the Russian revolution and revolutionary communist movements spreading like wildfire in Europe and the world, we never would have gotten fascism. The authoritarian fascism movement was very much a reaction against the authoritarian and totalitarian movement. Most people who voted for the Nazis were not Nazis and were for democracy. They just thought the extremely aggressive communists needed to be stopped.

The lesson we can learn from history is that it's a bad idea to be intolerant and authoritarian, even when you've got the ideological wind in your sails. I recall the trans debate on this forum. It quickly went into extremism where I was called all kinds of things just for trying to insert some sanity. So it's not like we're immune. I think we are probably all bad at spotting intolerance and authoritarian tendencies in our own side.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Documents Allege a Federal Agent at Portland ICE Threatened to Shoot an Ambulance Driver

Feds delayed medics who had come to pick up an injured protester. Then, according to confidential incident reports, the agents became aggressive.

www.wweek.com

The incident described in the crew members’ two reports suggests that such hostility has been directed not only at demonstrators, but at first responders who were asked by the feds to assist. The ambulance was eventually allowed to leave the building with the patient. But the crew’s written reports of the preceding minutes offer a small but revealing sign of how on edge some federal agents working in the ICE facility are feeling—and how quick they are to take an aggressive posture when they perceive a physical threat, even from a fellow emergency worker.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Does anyone doubt that they intend to lead the US into full blown fascism, if no one stops them? Does anyone doubt that that may not be possible, given how much power over all branches of government that they now hold?

it’s up to voters to change things.

There won't be another honest election.

Agreed. I still get upset sometimes, but largely I'm resigned to it. It's like an alt-fiction book come to life, which are supposed to be fun and interesting, but instead we have scary and stupid. There's not going to be any Trump voter regrets, but even if that were to happen, they wouldn't be able to do jack shit about it anyway. In many ways we'll all be in the same idiotic boat.

 

[lostone]

Pay more attention. He's gone a long way towards controlling society.

Yet you're able to post here without fear of reprisals. How come you are not afraid the FBI will come for you and make you disappear?

We are little fish. Small board, not a lot of attention.

We've seen pretty severe reactions to people posting things on Facebook.

Oh, stop it. A signifying symptom of fascism is that everyone lives in fear of reprisals if they speak out. They make sure all the fish are afraid. That's what the "total-" in "totalitarianism" is about. The funny thing is that USA is probably the least fascist and totalitarian country on the planet. The latitude of socialy permitted behaviour in USA, as long as it's not sexual, is greater than anywhere else. Especially expressing political opinions. And Americans are very vigilant about it. As this thread demonstrates. Americans are very sensitive about having their right to free expression. So it comes across as a bit humorous when Americans start complaining about living in a fascist totalitarian state. The norm, around the world, is to not have opinions about anything remotely controversial in public. Because doing so is dangerous.

You are describing how America used to be. That doesn't prove things aren't changing.

Don't get me wrong, I can see all the fascist tendencies of Trump. There's a lot of fascist behaviour and tendencies in Trump. Not just behaviour, but framing. A signifier of fascism is that it's the idea that the country has been humiliated somehow and needs to be born again. All that talk is straight up from the fascist playbook.

But it's still not fascism. Right now the "most fascist" side in USA right now is the left. They're extremely intolerant, arrogant of how right they are and not above abusing the law to force their way ahead. As well as using bullying and social pressure to crush anyone who dares to not conform.

So in the American context nitpicking on Trump for showing some fascist tendencies is pretty hilarious. I think the fascism of Trump and MAGA is just them copying the left because the left right now is a very bad influence.

What is needed is for everyone to take a deep breath and remember the context that led to the enlightenment and then democracy and what we need to do to make it work. Namely, to tolerate those who we don't agree with. It would be great if Antifa would stop rioting right now. It's not cool. Occupy wall street was complete bullshit. The Black Lives Matter protests were hardly orderly. I have no problem imagining that American conservatives are sick of that bullshit and start leaning toward fascism right now. It's still not fascism. It's just fermented fish sauce. Not a whole rotting fish.

The statement where I have bolded the word left would become correct if you replaced the word left with right. The right are the ones with the power to abuse the law.

I was talking about events prior to the latest election. Events which, no doubt, helped Trump to power. It's the behaviour of the left that the current Trump administration is reacting against.

There are paralells in history. Without the Russian revolution and revolutionary communist movements spreading like wildfire in Europe and the world, we never would have gotten fascism. The authoritarian fascism movement was very much a reaction against the authoritarian and totalitarian movement. Most people who voted for the Nazis were not Nazis and were for democracy. They just thought the extremely aggressive communists needed to be stopped.

The lesson we can learn from history is that it's a bad idea to be intolerant and authoritarian, even when you've got the ideological wind in your sails. I recall the trans debate on this forum. It quickly went into extremism where I was called all kinds of things just for trying to insert some sanity. So it's not like we're immune. I think we are probably all bad at spotting intolerance and authoritarian tendencies in our own side.

The American Right Wing fear of socialism and immigrants has much deeper roots that that, long before anyone could accuse those proto-socialists of intolerance. Consider this famous example from 1886:

Haymarket affair - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Pay more attention. He's gone a long way towards controlling society.

Yet you're able to post here without fear of reprisals. How come you are not afraid the FBI will come for you and make you disappear?

We are little fish. Small board, not a lot of attention.

We've seen pretty severe reactions to people posting things on Facebook.

Oh, stop it. A signifying symptom of fascism is that everyone lives in fear of reprisals if they speak out. They make sure all the fish are afraid. That's what the "total-" in "totalitarianism" is about. The funny thing is that USA is probably the least fascist and totalitarian country on the planet. The latitude of socialy permitted behaviour in USA, as long as it's not sexual, is greater than anywhere else. Especially expressing political opinions. And Americans are very vigilant about it. As this thread demonstrates. Americans are very sensitive about having their right to free expression. So it comes across as a bit humorous when Americans start complaining about living in a fascist totalitarian state. The norm, around the world, is to not have opinions about anything remotely controversial in public. Because doing so is dangerous.

You are describing how America used to be. That doesn't prove things aren't changing.

Don't get me wrong, I can see all the fascist tendencies of Trump. There's a lot of fascist behaviour and tendencies in Trump. Not just behaviour, but framing. A signifier of fascism is that it's the idea that the country has been humiliated somehow and needs to be born again. All that talk is straight up from the fascist playbook.

But it's still not fascism. Right now the "most fascist" side in USA right now is the left. They're extremely intolerant, arrogant of how right they are and not above abusing the law to force their way ahead. As well as using bullying and social pressure to crush anyone who dares to not conform.

So in the American context nitpicking on Trump for showing some fascist tendencies is pretty hilarious. I think the fascism of Trump and MAGA is just them copying the left because the left right now is a very bad influence.

What is needed is for everyone to take a deep breath and remember the context that led to the enlightenment and then democracy and what we need to do to make it work. Namely, to tolerate those who we don't agree with. It would be great if Antifa would stop rioting right now. It's not cool. Occupy wall street was complete bullshit. The Black Lives Matter protests were hardly orderly. I have no problem imagining that American conservatives are sick of that bullshit and start leaning toward fascism right now. It's still not fascism. It's just fermented fish sauce. Not a whole rotting fish.

The statement where I have bolded the word left would become correct if you replaced the word left with right. The right are the ones with the power to abuse the law.

I was talking about events prior to the latest election. Events which, no doubt, helped Trump to power. It's the behaviour of the left that the current Trump administration is reacting against.

There are paralells in history. Without the Russian revolution and revolutionary communist movements spreading like wildfire in Europe and the world, we never would have gotten fascism. The authoritarian fascism movement was very much a reaction against the authoritarian and totalitarian movement. Most people who voted for the Nazis were not Nazis and were for democracy. They just thought the extremely aggressive communists needed to be stopped.

The lesson we can learn from history is that it's a bad idea to be intolerant and authoritarian, even when you've got the ideological wind in your sails. I recall the trans debate on this forum. It quickly went into extremism where I was called all kinds of things just for trying to insert some sanity. So it's not like we're immune. I think we are probably all bad at spotting intolerance and authoritarian tendencies in our own side.

The bolded sentence seems like an attempt to justify Trump's behaviour. Trump isn't simply reacting; he is imposing whole new sets of ideas - some from Project 2025, others from his own demented mind, yet many others suggested by people close to him. His unlawful actions can't be blamed on others.
Are you aware that in the early 1930s there were massive street fights between Nazis and socialists? Or that motivations for Germans to elect Hitler were not communism but grievances about their defeat in WW1 and their perceived unjust treatment?

As to who is being intolerant and authoritarian - the right has a lock on that. There is also an old saying about not being tolerant of intolerance, which means that there are limits to how tolerant one can be, and that sometimes the powerful and bigoted push too hard, and they must be pushed back against.

 

[Swammerdami]

Oh, stop it. A signifying symptom of fascism is that everyone lives in fear of reprisals if they speak out. They make sure all the fish are afraid. That's what the "total-" in "totalitarianism" is about. The funny thing is that USA is probably the least fascist and totalitarian country on the planet.

Dr. Z asks "Has fear of reprisals limited objections to Trump's fascist agenda?"

CERTAINLY YES, if one considers the most important type of objection -- the votes by Republican Congressmen and Senators that have enacted fascist programs. Many of these Congressmen have told their colleagues, both D and R, that they have voted AGAINST their conscience, and knowingly advanced the fascist agenda because they feared violent reprisals against themselves and their families if they failed to vote as Trump dictated.

Just as the "Brownshirts" were not an official organ of the German government, so it is not necessary for ICE or other criminals reporting directly to fascist leaders to perform the violence. Trump and other top fascists sit back laughing while crazed MAGGOTs do the violence. Consider all the jokes made by Fox Liars, MAGA leaders and even the Trump family about the bludgeoning of Paul Pelosi. Jokes. Failing to call these thugs "fascists" can make sense only if you're looking for a stronger word.

 

[RVonse]

Does anyone doubt that they intend to lead the US into full blown fascism, if no one stops them? Does anyone doubt that that may not be possible, given how much power over all branches of government that they now hold?

it’s up to voters to change things.

There won't be another honest election.

There never has been an honest election its more a matter of how corrupt and noticed they were; how many electronic machines with no trail used, and how clean they got away not noticed

The Republicans did nothing but copy the same absent balloting scam the Democrats invented when they stole their election against Trump in 2020. Yet your side has now revealed there will never be an another honest election!

Now that is rich....

How about admitting both sides have and will cheat because there is an incentive. And then discover a more secure vote (probably including ID card unless your idea is better) that will inspire more confidence with the public (for both sides)?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Does anyone doubt that they intend to lead the US into full blown fascism, if no one stops them? Does anyone doubt that that may not be possible, given how much power over all branches of government that they now hold?

it’s up to voters to change things.

There won't be another honest election.

Agreed. I still get upset sometimes, but largely I'm resigned to it. It's like an alt-fiction book come to life, which are supposed to be fun and interesting, but instead we have scary and stupid. There's not going to be any Trump voter regrets, but even if that were to happen, they wouldn't be able to do jack shit about it anyway. In many ways we'll all be in the same idiotic boat.

Who knows. If there is anything to worry about, I'm nervous about California's referendum and the GOP trying to keep those new seats from being seated. It is possible this election happens fair-ish and square-ish. But the outcome might not matter if it isn't favorable to the GOP. Or maybe the GOP doesn't go all out on this and only tries to fix the election through the gerrymandering. North Carolina is looking at it again, but they already messed up their map so much, not much left. Ohio is willing to give is dystopian go and limit the Democrats to 2 or so seats, netting three by committing some egregious gerrymandering (something they already tried, but the 4-3 GOP Ohio Supreme Court ruled against it. That court is now 6-1.

 

[RVonse]

Oh, stop it. A signifying symptom of fascism is that everyone lives in fear of reprisals if they speak out. They make sure all the fish are afraid. That's what the "total-" in "totalitarianism" is about. The funny thing is that USA is probably the least fascist and totalitarian country on the planet.

Dr. Z asks "Has fear of reprisals limited objections to Trump's fascist agenda?"

CERTAINLY YES, if one considers the most important type of objection -- the votes by Republican Congressmen and Senators that have enacted fascist programs. Many of these Congressmen have told their colleagues, both D and R, that they have voted AGAINST their conscience, and knowingly advanced the fascist agenda because they feared violent reprisals against themselves and their families if they failed to vote as Trump dictated.

Just as the "Brownshirts" were not an official organ of the German government, so it is not necessary for ICE or other criminals reporting directly to fascist leaders to perform the violence. Trump and other top fascists sit back laughing while crazed MAGGOTs do the violence. Consider all the jokes made by Fox Liars, MAGA leaders and even the Trump family about the bludgeoning of Paul Pelosi. Jokes. Failing to call these thugs "fascists" can make sense only if you're looking for a stronger word.

You think fascism did not happened under Biden's regime? What about Biden's brownshirts forcing twitter to become his mouthpiece?

 

[Elixir]

And Ems just refuses to see it.

At this point I wonder.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The Republicans did nothing but copy the same absent balloting scam the Democrats invented when they stole their election against Trump in 2020. Yet your side has now revealed there will never be an another honest election!

So, you’re admitting that Trump won in 2024 by cheating, yes? Using the same method than leaves no trace like the Democrats did in 2020?

 

[RVonse]

The Republicans did nothing but copy the same absent balloting scam the Democrats invented when they stole their election against Trump in 2020. Yet your side has now revealed there will never be an another honest election!

So, you’re admitting that Trump won in 2024 by cheating, yes? Using the same method than leaves no trace like the Democrats did in 2020?

I have no proof of anything. My claim is that neither side trusts the integrity of our voting system I base this on Loren's comment above and the rhetoric coming from the right.

And if neither side trusts the integrity of our voting system, what do you believe should be done?

Complaining that you know the Republicans are cheating? Do you think that strategy will go anywhere? Or would better ideas improving the way votes are counted help so that both sides would have more confidence?

You can either complain about being cheated or voice your concern that more fairness and integrity needs to be built into the system to prevent cheats. This should be a non partisan issue but somehow it isn't on this board.

 

[Elixir]

Or maybe the GOP doesn't go all out on this and only tries to fix the election through the gerrymandering. North Carolina is looking at it again, but they already messed up their map so much, not much left. Ohio is willing to give is dystopian go and limit the Democrats to 2 or so seats, netting three by committing some egregious gerrymandering (something they already tried, but the 4-3 GOP Ohio Supreme Court ruled against it. That court is now 6-1.

Fuck it. Let them gerrymander everything they can as badly as possible. It could backfire massively as it necessarily puts existing districts at greater risk, and without a major 2026 electoral backlash (required for Dems to re-gain control there will be nothing further to be done anyway.

 

[Jarhyn]

And Ems just refuses to see it.

At this point I wonder.

So do I, honestly.