Do you think any aliens exist in the universe?

[steve_bank]

Understanding Psychosis

This fact sheet presents information on psychosis including causes, signs and symptoms, treatment, and resources for help.

www.nimh.nih.gov

What is psychosis?

Psychosis refers to a collection of symptoms that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. During an episode of psychosis, a person’s thoughts and perceptions are disrupted and they may have difficulty recognizing what is real and what is not.

There are now vast global net communities that mentally dwell almost exclusivity in the fantasy world of video games.

From mental health reporting they can lose the ability to communicate with fellow human beings face to face. Difficulty having simple conversations.

In the the 19th century American west if you could not tell the difference between reality and dreams or fantasy the odds were you died. Unless you had family to take care of you.

You can start calling dreams a simulation alluding to the universes as a simulation, but I call that tripping. Don't know if the word is used any more.

Simulation Theory becomes like a theology. Instead of a god or gods or spirits controlling reality it is advanced beings who creatd a simulation.

Like Christians who use the word god without definition, one imagines advanced creators of the salutation.

If gods are reflections of their human creators, then the imagined creators of a simulation we are part of are also reflections of us humans.

The claim of an unknown creator of a simulation we are in is the same as a claim of a god creating the universe.

Same question as I have in the determinism vs free will threads.

If it is free will or determinism that is true, what do you do when faced with decisions?


And back to the perennial thousands of years old question 'what is reality?'

 

[pood]

I haven’t time to plow through all this right now cuz I am getting ready to watch the simulated World Series. So again to home in on the key question:

You actually believe you are conscious but that most (all?) others are p-zombies?

I mean, holy fuck, dude.

Sorry, I am not a p-zombie. Nor is anyone else.

And we do not live in a simulation.

Like I said I normally have a "suspension of disbelief" like when people just assume a video game or movie is a kind of reality.

You said:

we don’t even know that consciousness can be simulated in the sense that people actually experience consciousness in the simulation

If the Roy game is ever possible then you seem to be saying that people in it might not be conscious since maybe consciousness can't be simulated.

It comes down to whether simulations like the Roy game are possible - even thousands of years in the future... I asked a question about that in post #655

Are you saying that every character in the Roy game must be conscious because you find the concept of p-zombies repulsive?

No. I don’t think any characters in any games are conscious.

I am saying WE are not p-zombies and WE are not in a game or a simulation,

 

[excreationist]

No. I don’t think any characters in any games are conscious.

Including the Roy game?

I am saying WE are not p-zombies and WE are not in a game or a simulation,

Do you think simulations like the Roy game would be possible in the future? If you were in the Roy game it would seem similar to your own life including not thinking that it was a simulation while playing it.

 

[pood]

No. I don’t think any characters in any games are conscious.

Including the Roy game?

Of course they are not conscious.

I am saying WE are not p-zombies and WE are not in a game or a simulation,

Do you think simulations like the Roy game would be possible in the future? If you were in the Roy game it would seem similar to your own life including not thinking that it was a simulation while playing it.

Again: nothing in the Roy game or any other game is conscious. WE are conscious, here in REAL LIFE. And WE do not live in a video game or a simulation.

Don’t know how I can be any clearer.

If you think you are in a simulation and are conscious but everybody else is, or most are, p-zombies, that is frankly delusional.

 

[excreationist]

Again: nothing in the Roy game or any other game is conscious. WE are conscious, here in REAL LIFE. And WE do not live in a video game or a simulation.

Don’t know how I can be any clearer.

If you think you are in a simulation and are conscious but everybody else is, or most are, p-zombies, that is frankly delusional.

Could the Roy game be possible one day? Or is it impossible, even 10,000 years in the future? In the Roy game the player is conscious and their mind exists outside of the game - i.e. the player's consciousness doesn't need to be simulated.
How do you know that you are in reality and not playing something like the Roy game?

It seems your reasoning is that the idea of p-zombies are repulsive - and simulations require p-zombies - therefore simulations are repulsive and can't be possible regarding ourselves.

BTW how do you know that consciousness can't be simulated? Is it like a soul which only a god can create? And can a brain one day be hooked up to a simulation?

 

[pood]

Again: nothing in the Roy game or any other game is conscious. WE are conscious, here in REAL LIFE. And WE do not live in a video game or a simulation.

Don’t know how I can be any clearer.

If you think you are in a simulation and are conscious but everybody else is, or most are, p-zombies, that is frankly delusional.

Could the Roy game be possible one day? Or is it impossible, even 10,000 years in the future? In the Roy game the player is conscious and their mind exists outside of the game - i.e. the player's consciousness doesn't need to be simulated.

I see no reason to believe any of this possible, ever

How do you know that you are in reality and not playing something like the Roy game?

Did you read the PZ Myers links I gave? I have no burden to prove this bullshit is false. You have the burden to prove it is true.

It seems your reasoning is that the idea of p-zombies are repulsive - and simulations require p-zombies - therefore simulations are repulsive and can't be possible regarding ourselves.

Bullshit. That is not my reasoning. Stop misrepresenting what I write. What I wrote is that we have not the slightest reason to believe that most of us in REAL LIFE are p-zombies, or even that p-zombies are possible in principle. It has got nothing to do with finding them “repulsive.”

However, in ACTUAL SIMULATIONS, video games and the like, I suppose you could characterize the simulations as p-zombies. But it does not follow such exist in REAL LIFE, which is all that I am interested in.

BTW how do you know that consciousness can't be simulated? Is it like a soul which only a god can create? And can a brain one day be hooked up to a simulation?

View attachment 52545

What do you mean by “simulated consciousness?” We can already do that, and have been able to do that for a long time. Superman comic books “simulate” a consciousness for Superman, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olson, etc. It does not folllow that those comic books characters in ink on paper are ACTUALLY CONSCIOUS.

A SIMULATION of consciousness does not imply ACTUAL CONSCIOUSNESS,

A map can SIMULATE a PHYSICAL TERRITORY, But they are not the SAME THING.

 

[excreationist]

I see no reason to believe any of this possible, ever

Well I've got to work up to it step by step. Firstly, do you think it would ever be possible for a brain to be hooked up to a simulation like this:

Did you read the PZ Myers links I gave?

See post #656. It seems he definitely only got his information about Musk's arguments from a comic book which incorrectly summed up Musk's main argument in a single panel.

I have no burden to prove this bullshit is false. You have the burden to prove it is true.

I did show many examples of what generative AI is capable of. But we need to start from the basics - like brains in vats.

It seems your reasoning is that the idea of p-zombies are repulsive - and simulations require p-zombies - therefore simulations are repulsive and can't be possible regarding ourselves.

Bullshit. That is not my reasoning. Stop misrepresenting what I write.

I wrote "it seems" (I mean "it seems to me"). And PZ Myers and that comic book creator misrepresented Musk. (which I explained in post #656)

What I wrote is that we have not the slightest reason to believe that most of us in REAL LIFE are p-zombies, or even that p-zombies are possible in principle. It has got nothing to do with finding them “repulsive.”

However, in ACTUAL SIMULATIONS, video games and the like, I suppose you could characterize the simulations as p-zombies. But it does not follow such exist in REAL LIFE, which is all that I am interested in.

In case you didn't realise, I don't think I'm in "real life". I believe I'm probably in a simulation. I never meant to claim that p-zombies exist in a physical world that isn't simulated.

What do you mean by “simulated consciousness?” We can already do that, and have been able to do that for a long time. Superman comic books “simulate” a consciousness for Superman, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olson, etc. It does not folllow that those comic books characters in ink on paper on are ACTUALLY CONSCIOUS.

Like I said I'm not arguing that consciousness can be simulated.

A SIMULATION of consciousness does not imply ACTUAL CONSCIOUSNESS,

A map can SIMULATE a PHYSICAL TERRITORY, But they are not the SAME THING.

If it isn't actual consciousness then it is a p-zombie. I think those are the only possibilities.