How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

make a deal exceptionally favorable to Russia

But the deal is not favorable to Russia.

 

[bilby]

So now the Peace Plan is being roundly condemned by everyone except Russia, the Secretary of State is saying that it was never a US plan at all, and was just a Russian list of demands, that the US passed on to Ukraine in their role as intermediary.

Seems like yet another TACO moment.

The plan itself won't last until Thursday, much less the absurdly evil Trumpian demands for Zelenskyy to accept it "or else".

 

[barbos]

The plan itself won't last until Thursday

I hope so.

 

[bilby]

The plan itself won't last until Thursday

I hope so.

I think you mean that you hope not

It seems that no plan from the US regime survives beyond the inflection point when people stop talking about the plan, and go back to talking about Trump's involvement with Epstein.

 

[barbos]

I think you mean that you hope not

I mean what I wrote.
The "plan" was written by people who had just realized that Elensky had been lying to them about their successes in repelling russian hordes.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Trump said in brief remarks on Saturday that his proposal was not his final offer, signalling potential room for adjustments as Ukraine and its European allies stressed that the plan could serve as a foundation for negotiations but required changes.

So is your ridiculous Thursday deadline gone now?
But you said

Trump said in brief remarks on Saturday that his proposal was not his final offer, signalling potential room for adjustments as Ukraine and its European allies stressed that the plan could serve as a foundation for negotiations but required changes.

And what of those who have to live close to this unhinged nation? Their needs are more closely aligned with Ukraine's.

In a joint statement, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway and Sweden said: "Solutions that respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and that will bring Ukraine and Europe greater security and stability have our full support."

Full support as in the weapons with unrestricted use.

"The initial draft of the 28-point plan includes important elements that will be essential for a just and lasting peace," said the leaders of the EU, Germany, France, Britain, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Finland, Italy, Japan and Norway.

Why would they even make such a statement? To appease the idiot. Is the reality not that much of what Russia passed through Trump should be imposed on Russia? That such a belligerent nation's armed forces should be sized so that they can no longer invade their neighbors? I'm sure the Baltic states would agree with me. This plan is a mad dog wanting the fence removed. We do this and Russia will leave Ukraine alone for awhile and start probing the Baltic states to test NATO's reaction.
We should be probing Russia to test their resolve. We should have been probing Russia as soon as we seen the pathetic state of their military. Unrestriced use of US weapons. US troop buildup in Poland and the Baltics. New permanent bases in Eastern Europe. This is how and where US military might should be deployed.

We'll see. The EU cannot afford to allow Russia to have the means to restrengthen itself. They need to continue on the path of increasing their defense capacity and updating their military. The more Russia is allowed to restrengthen, the more it will cost the EU in the long run.
In allowing a meeting between Kushner, Witkoff, and a sanctioned Russia oligarch, Trump reaffirms who we all know him to be. Any negative public statement about Russia is bullshit. The EU and the rest of the western world needs to make decisions without Trump. Stand united and let the isolation of "America first" sink in. Let those defence contracts go elsewhere. That's language Trump understands.

 

[barbos]

What a load of BS you keep posting over and over again.
Ukraine should be all occupied and integrated back into Russia.
Russia can't afford having nazis in Ukraine.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Trump accuses Ukraine of ingratitude as officials meet in Geneva on US peace plan
It's our job. It's our moral obligation. We do not ask for gratitude for stopping a bully. When we have the best military in the world and the means to finance it, stopping a thug like Putin should be considered a good training exercise. Exercise the troops, evaluate the equipment, put our intel through the paces. Stopping a bully, being the world's cop brings stability and the confidence of other nations.

 

[crazyfingers]

Trump accuses Ukraine of ingratitude as officials meet in Geneva on US peace plan
It's our job. It's our moral obligation. We do not ask for gratitude for stopping a bully. When we have the best military in the world and the means to finance it, stopping a thug like Putin should be considered a good training exercise. Exercise the troops, evaluate the equipment, put our intel through the paces. Stopping a bully, being the world's cop brings stability and the confidence of other nations.

Trump thinks that everything is a zero sum game. He doesn't want to understand that there are benefits besides money for ever doing anything just because it's the right thing to do.

But it's disgusting that he's back to this foolish "haven't shown enough gratitude" shit again. He's such an evil fool.

 

[ZiprHead]

What a load of BS you keep posting over and over again.
Ukraine should be all occupied and integrated back into Russia.
Russia can't afford having nazis in Ukraine.

Maybe you should take care of the nazis in Russia first.

 

[bilby]

I mean what I wrote.

Maybe, but what you wrote doesn't mean what I think you think it means. You were hoping that the plan would not last until
Thursday; What you wrote, in idiomatic English, means you hoped it would last.

It's a strange construction in English and easy to get wrong; Either you got it wrong, or you changed your mind since your previous post on the question.

 

[barbos]

I mean what I wrote.

Maybe, but what you wrote doesn't mean what I think you think it means. You were hoping that the plan would not last until
Thursday; What you wrote, in idiomatic English, means you hoped it would last.

It's a strange construction in English and easy to get wrong; Either you got it wrong, or you changed your mind since your previous post on the question.

I think you are trying to BS me.

 

[barbos]

What a load of BS you keep posting over and over again.
Ukraine should be all occupied and integrated back into Russia.
Russia can't afford having nazis in Ukraine.

Maybe you should take care of the nazis in Russia first.

We took care of them just fine.

 

[barbos]

I mean what I wrote.

Maybe, but what you wrote doesn't mean what I think you think it means. You were hoping that the plan would not last until
Thursday; What you wrote, in idiomatic English, means you hoped it would last.

It's a strange construction in English and easy to get wrong; Either you got it wrong, or you changed your mind since your previous post on the question.

OK, How about "I hope it would not" ?
I still think "I hope so" means the same. If not then it should.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Trump hints at 'big progress' in Ukraine talks as Zelensky warns against giving away territory

After weekend US-Ukraine talks in Geneva, President Zelensky says: "Putin wants legal recognition to what he has stolen...that's the main problem."

www.bbc.com

My reading of this peace proposal is Ukraine admitting defeat. Does anyone disagree?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Trump accuses Ukraine of ingratitude as officials meet in Geneva on US peace plan
It's our job. It's our moral obligation. We do not ask for gratitude for stopping a bully. When we have the best military in the world and the means to finance it, stopping a thug like Putin should be considered a good training exercise. Exercise the troops, evaluate the equipment, put our intel through the paces. Stopping a bully, being the world's cop brings stability and the confidence of other nations.

Trump thinks that everything is a zero sum game. He doesn't want to understand that there are benefits besides money for ever doing anything just because it's the right thing to do.

But it's disgusting that he's back to this foolish "haven't shown enough gratitude" shit again. He's such an evil fool.

I think Trump just wants peace at any cost. From his perspective war anywhere in the world is bad for business. I think he sees it as, from USA's perspective who rules Ukraine is irrelevant. It's not his problem. I don't think Trump cares about morality or justice.

That's how I read it.

USA's presidents have always been vacilating between getting militarily involved in global politics or staying out of it. Trump is the latter category.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Trump hints at 'big progress' in Ukraine talks as Zelensky warns against giving away territory

After weekend US-Ukraine talks in Geneva, President Zelensky says: "Putin wants legal recognition to what he has stolen...that's the main problem."

www.bbc.com

My reading of this peace proposal is Ukraine admitting defeat. Does anyone disagree?

Yep. And if Ukraine accepts this agreement, Russia will reinvade again in 6 months. And Ukraine will be in a weaker position then.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I think you mean that you hope not

I mean what I wrote.
The "plan" was written by people who had just realized that Elensky had been lying to them about their successes in repelling russian hordes.

The "plan" was written by Utin! He gave it to Trump. Trump dutifully gave it to Zelensky like a good dog. Now Utin is rejecting the plan that he composed. It's a charade to fool the foolish. Russia wants war. Period. I've been saying this since day one. No amount of compromise will satisfy the Russians. Ukraine is just the first country. More will come.

 

[barbos]

I think you mean that you hope not

I mean what I wrote.
The "plan" was written by people who had just realized that Elensky had been lying to them about their successes in repelling russian hordes.

The "plan" was written by Putin! He gave it to Trump. Trump dutifully gave it to Zelensky like a good dog. Now Utin is rejecting the plan that he composed. It's a charade to fool the foolish. Russia wants war. Period. I've been saying this since day one. No amount of compromise will satisfy the Russians. Ukraine is just the first country. More will come.

Putin has already said that he does not like that plan but if Kiev Regime signs on it he is willing to work on it.
He is playing along, understanding that Elensky gang will refuse to sign it.
You are clearly incapable of learning anything.
The plan is utter shit.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I think you mean that you hope not

I mean what I wrote.
The "plan" was written by people who had just realized that Elensky had been lying to them about their successes in repelling russian hordes.

The "plan" was written by Putin! He gave it to Trump. Trump dutifully gave it to Zelensky like a good dog. Now Utin is rejecting the plan that he composed. It's a charade to fool the foolish. Russia wants war. Period. I've been saying this since day one. No amount of compromise will satisfy the Russians. Ukraine is just the first country. More will come.

Putin has already said that he does not like that plan but if Kiev Regime signs on it he is willing to work on it.
He is playing along, understanding that Elensky gang will refuse to sign it.
You are clearly incapable of learning anything.
The plan is utter shit.

Agreed. Utin will violate the plan within 6 months. Any plan that limits Ukraine right to defensive weapons will incite the imperialists.