Trump’s attack on DEI may hurt college men, particularly White men

[hurtinbuckaroo]

https://wapo.st/3MH0Qm9

File under “Be careful what you wish for “. Many colleges try to balance male and female enrollment, even though they get significantly more applications from qualified women, in some cases nearly 100% more at top schools. Schools may chose to end any consideration of gender in admissions in order to avoid the wrath of Don the DEI slayer. This would seem to be a self-own for n administration that desperately wants women to be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen making the sandwiches.

It also takes away the advantage enjoyed by white men for quite a few years.

The winning never ends.

 

[Derec]

Not buying it, and the article is behind a paywall. Colleges usually favor female applicants because, even though most college students are female, they are a minority in many majors, and get preferential admissions in e.g. hard sciences and engineering.

In any case, college admissions should not be affected by race and gender one way or the other. Men should not be advantaged, but they should not be disadvantaged either.

 

[scombrid]

Are veterinary medicine, marine science (to include biological oceanography, chemical oceanography, physical oceanography, and geology) fluff? Those are areas where I have direct experience being a marine biologist married to a veterinarian. Last time I checked those are female dominated in the last decade. Must be fluff.

 

[Bomb#20]

I'm not following how this is supposed to hurt college men.

 

[barbos]

Are veterinary medicine, marine science (to include biological oceanography, chemical oceanography, physical oceanography, and geology) fluff? Those are areas where I have direct experience being a marine biologist married to a veterinarian. Last time I checked those are female dominated in the last decade. Must be fluff.

55% (oceanography) is not domination. Try mathematics.
Speaking of which, I remember a girl admitted to math PhD program who had to tutored on .... complex (!!!!) numbers.
That's desperation.

 

[Toni]

My sisters and I all studied hard sciences: cell and molecular biology, biochemistry, physics and mathematics. One sister became a pharmacist. The other earned her masters in physics and dropped out of her Ph.D. Program in physics because of a family situation. She worked with military contractors and later, in IT QA for a major pharmaceutical company.

We are all boomers.

My own education was interrupted a couple of times and I finished my degree 20+ years ago. Most of my fellow students in my chemistry and physics courses were women.

The fact is that women have always been involved in the ‘hard sciences’ despite considerable obstacles, and outright hostility, legal and societal barriers and frankly thievery.

 

[RVonse]

In any case, college admissions should not be affected by race and gender one way or the other. Men should not be advantaged, but they should not be disadvantaged either.

I especially agree with this.

Admissions should be based on ability and metrics only. Then let the chips fall where ever that leads. Society as a whole benefits when the best fit people are placed in the jobs they are best at. Which usually also means the fields of study they are most interested in.

If that means no white men get in or only all white men get in.... that should be an outcome we should all (including liberals) be able to agree with.

I don't always agree with Trump. But this time he is right and DEI is wrong.

 

[laughing dog]

Not buying it, and the article is behind a paywall. Colleges usually favor female applicants because, even though most college students are female, they are a minority in many majors, and get preferential admissions in e.g. hard sciences and engineering.

Citation please.

In any case, college admissions should not be affected by race and gender one way or the other. Men should not be advantaged, but they should not be disadvantaged either.

Since men are no longer advantaged a and haven’t been disadvantaged, there’s no problem.

 

[Elixir]

I don't think sleepy don gives two fux who he hurts - he just likes hurting people, because it momentarily mitigates his vast insecurity.

 

[TV and credit cards]

In any case, college admissions should not be affected by race and gender one way or the other. Men should not be advantaged, but they should not be disadvantaged either.

I especially agree with this.

Admissions should be based on ability and metrics only. Then let the chips fall where ever that leads. Society as a whole benefits when the best fit people are placed in the jobs they are best at. Which usually also means the fields of study they are most interested in.

If that means no white men get in or only all white men get in.... that should be an outcome we should all (including liberals) be able to agree with.

I don't always agree with Trump. But this time he is right and DEI is wrong.

If you ran a marketing firm, would you be satisfied having only white men working for you?

 

[barbos]

My sisters and I all studied hard sciences: cell and molecular biology, biochemistry, physics and mathematics. One sister became a pharmacist. The other earned her masters in physics and dropped out of her Ph.D. Program in physics because of a family situation. She worked with military contractors and later, in IT QA for a major pharmaceutical company.

You realize that you are not helping your case?
Getting into PhD program in Physics then deciding to quit after getting master degree and ending up in IT QA. IT QA means you can't code.

 

[scombrid]

Are veterinary medicine, marine science (to include biological oceanography, chemical oceanography, physical oceanography, and geology) fluff? Those are areas where I have direct experience being a marine biologist married to a veterinarian. Last time I checked those are female dominated in the last decade. Must be fluff.

55% (oceanography) is not domination. Try mathematics.
Speaking of which, I remember a girl admitted to math PhD program who had to tutored on .... complex (!!!!) numbers.
That's desperation.

Break it down by age. I’m in fisheries science. Twenty years ago we were 80 percent white male. I am at a freshwater conference now that is majority female. However, the majority of senior roles are still male as a reflection of the demographics 20 years ago. Things are changing fast and it is upsetting the MAGA. They want discrimination and intimidation back so they can talk dirty at the poker table at the after-hours social.

 

[barbos]

Are veterinary medicine, marine science (to include biological oceanography, chemical oceanography, physical oceanography, and geology) fluff? Those are areas where I have direct experience being a marine biologist married to a veterinarian. Last time I checked those are female dominated in the last decade. Must be fluff.

55% (oceanography) is not domination. Try mathematics.
Speaking of which, I remember a girl admitted to math PhD program who had to tutored on .... complex (!!!!) numbers.
That's desperation.

Break it down by age. I’m in fisheries science. Twenty years ago we were 80 percent white male. I am at a freshwater conference now that is majority female. However, the majority of senior roles are still male as a reflection of the demographics 20 years ago. Things are changing fast and it is upsetting the MAGA. They want discrimination and intimidation back so they can talk dirty at the poker table at the after-hours social.

55% is barely majority.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In any case, college admissions should not be affected by race and gender one way or the other. Men should not be advantaged, but they should not be disadvantaged either.

I especially agree with this.

Admissions should be based on ability and metrics only.

Yes! Exactly! And when US colleges are exclusively overachieving Asians and Foreign students, I'm sure the tears in your eyes will be from joy.

Society as a whole benefits when the best fit people are placed in the jobs they are best at. Which usually also means the fields of study they are most interested in.

If that means no white men get in or only all white men get in.... that should be an outcome we should all (including liberals) be able to agree with.

Is there a single professional field that hasn't diversified in the last 100 years once women or people who aren't white were allowed to enter said fields?

I don't always agree with Trump. But this time he is right and DEI is wrong.

WTF? You almost always agree with Trump.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My sisters and I all studied hard sciences: cell and molecular biology, biochemistry, physics and mathematics. One sister became a pharmacist. The other earned her masters in physics and dropped out of her Ph.D. Program in physics because of a family situation. She worked with military contractors and later, in IT QA for a major pharmaceutical company.

You realize that you are not helping your case?
Getting into PhD program in Physics then deciding to quit after getting master degree and ending up in IT QA. IT QA means you can't code.

Read the whole post.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Not buying it, and the article is behind a paywall. Colleges usually favor female applicants because, even though most college students are female, they are a minority in many majors, and get preferential admissions in e.g. hard sciences and engineering.

I don’t know how it is now but when I applied for college I did not have to declare a major in my application. So, how do women get preferential admission in the hard sciences and engineering these days? I could see it for grad schools but how exactly does that work for undergrad admissions?

 

[barbos]

My sisters and I all studied hard sciences: cell and molecular biology, biochemistry, physics and mathematics. One sister became a pharmacist. The other earned her masters in physics and dropped out of her Ph.D. Program in physics because of a family situation. She worked with military contractors and later, in IT QA for a major pharmaceutical company.

You realize that you are not helping your case?
Getting into PhD program in Physics then deciding to quit after getting master degree and ending up in IT QA. IT QA means you can't code.

Read the whole post.

I had read it. None of the sisters work in hard sciences despite "studying" them in university.
In my experience, pretty much everyone who goes to US university takes some undergrad classes in "hard" sciences.
It does not really count. What somewhat counts is majoring and taking advanced undergrad classes.

 

[Toni]

My sisters and I all studied hard sciences: cell and molecular biology, biochemistry, physics and mathematics. One sister became a pharmacist. The other earned her masters in physics and dropped out of her Ph.D. Program in physics because of a family situation. She worked with military contractors and later, in IT QA for a major pharmaceutical company.

You realize that you are not helping your case?
Getting into PhD program in Physics then deciding to quit after getting master degree and ending up in IT QA. IT QA means you can't code.

Read the whole post.

I had read it. None of the sisters work in hard sciences despite "studying" them in university.
In my experience, pretty much everyone who goes to US university takes some undergrad classes in "hard" sciences.
It does not really count. What somewhat counts is majoring and taking advanced undergrad classes.

You sound like so many coders whose knowledge base and areas of expertise —or social life do not extend beyond coding so that you think that’s all that matters and everything else is trivial.

I certainly worked using hard sciences, unless you don’t consider biochemistry or immunology a hard science. In which case you simply are t particularly bright. My sister who studied physics and mathematics used those when she worked for defense contractors, designing various ….things that I won’t mention on the internet. She eventually accepted the classification as engineer although it was academically a step down but paid more, and she was already the lead on projects involving engineers. She took the job as a QA analyst because a) she was sick of the misogyny rife through the military industrial complex, and b) it allowed her to care for our disabled mother whose health was failing. In the US, to become a pharmacist, one completes a Pharm D.

I know plenty of people who code, including a philosopher and my husband whose Ph.D was not in what is typically considered a ‘hard science’ but nonetheless, taught himself programming languages to help with part of his work. Coding isn’t that hard. Boring as hell but difficult? Nope.

 

[Toni]

In any case, college admissions should not be affected by race and gender one way or the other. Men should not be advantaged, but they should not be disadvantaged either.

I especially agree with this.

Admissions should be based on ability and metrics only.

Yes! Exactly! And when US colleges are exclusively overachieving Asians and Foreign students, I'm sure the tears in your eyes will be from joy.

Society as a whole benefits when the best fit people are placed in the jobs they are best at. Which usually also means the fields of study they are most interested in.

If that means no white men get in or only all white men get in.... that should be an outcome we should all (including liberals) be able to agree with.

Is there a single professional field that hasn't diversified in the last 100 years once women or people who aren't white were allowed to enter said fields?

I don't always agree with Trump. But this time he is right and DEI is wrong.

WTF? You almost always agree with Trump.

The truth is that women and persons of color always have contributed significantly to the fields of mathematics even when they were forbidden to attend universities, or even to read and write. Their accomplishments were often stolen or their names erased, but that does not mean they did not exist or make important discoveries or do vital work.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Not buying it, and the article is behind a paywall. Colleges usually favor female applicants because, even though most college students are female, they are a minority in many majors, and get preferential admissions in e.g. hard sciences and engineering.

I don’t know how it is now but when I applied for college I did not have to declare a major in my application. So, how do women get preferential admission in the hard sciences and engineering these days? I could see it for grad schools but how exactly does that work for undergrad admissions?

Fifty years ago, I had to apply to a specific school within the university (engineering in my case), as did every other applicant. My kids had to do the same 10-12 years ago.