Hey Bilby I thought Australia had gun control?

[Jarhyn]

an unarmed person who is precluded from owning or carrying any means by which to defend themselves?

<Removed by Moderator>

This utter nonsense always comes up in gun control "debates", and is wrong on every possible level; No non-American ever raises this "point"; It is pure gun-nut US brand grade 'A' propaganda.

<Removed by Moderator> and don't come back until you have grasped at the very least that self defence is not illegal anywhere in the developed world, and that firearms are not, and cannot be, defensive in nature.

The winner of a 'Mexican stand-off' is whoever shoots first; Which is why such things exist only in fiction.

That line of argument is a clear indication that the person making it has exactly zero clue, and has swallowed hook, line, and sinker the daft propaganda claim that a gun is not only a means of defence, but is the only means of defence.

Fuck, not to put too fine a point on it, off.

Every day out on the street I openly carry a very large stick.

I have received numerous comments now about how bad I could fuck someone up with that stick. I mean, more often people compliment me on how pretty and fancy it is, for those whose lives have not been so "hard", but anyone who has seen some shit, and their mind goes the other way.

Of course, the whole purpose of its design and finish and appearance is specifically to make people understand intrinsically that while this is the LAST thing I would want to do with such a pretty stick, it's something people do realize could be done.

Now, it's most certainly not a gun, and it's clearly an object of last resort, but it is also definitely something with which I could defend myself.

Even so, some jurisdictions have "duty to retreat" and an expectation to only commit to self defense actions which are necessary to create an ability to retreat.

I don't necessarily agree with these laws, however the use of "they're coming right for us" as an excuse to shoot people necessitated some kind of response and this was what happened.

But the fact is, carrying something less lethal multifunctional, and more obvious than a gun accomplishes all those self defense purposes for all the people with guns or less in a way that doesn't end in gunshot injuries after the fact.

If people attack someone with a stick clearly not designed for assaulting people, using a gun, it's fairly obvious who attacked who and why.

So if Emily really wants to be able to protect herself, why not just get a nice stick or cane or other such thing that people commonly carry to facilitate their lives? It won't put holes through anyone and people are WAY less likely to attempt to start shit.

 

[laughing dog]

The headline in my paper today - Australia vows stricter gun control. What a contrast with my country.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Yesterday youtube recommended me a half dozen videos by Australians on the Bondi Beach killings, including one from an LNP politician.
Some of the videos were pretty exaggerated, saying it was most important tragedy in Australia's history and will have extremely monumental impact on future of Australia. Personally I can think of many greater tragedies in Australia's history, including the past and still present mistreatment of the indigenous people, and our involvement in the Vietnam War.
The most disturbing thing about these videos were the comments, that included Islamaphobia, blaming the federal government, saying should get rid of the Labor Party, constant mentions of anti-Semitism, and so on, including hatred of gun control (except for Moslems). Many of these people expressed their sorrow for the victims, particularly the ten year old girl, yet in their normal life could be supporters of Trump, MAGA, TPUSA, and dare one say it anti-Semitism. Now it might be said I am being unfair, but their attitudes conveyed this impression.

Of course, what one reads in comments on youtube videos is from only an extremely small part of the population, so it doesn't reflect the majority view.

Josh Frydenberg, a former LNP federal government minister, if we take his words metaphorically is a traitor and terrorist accomplice, because he claimed he knew about the event (yet he didn't inform the AFP). His literal words were that the event was predictable.
The LNP, scum that they are, don't see this as a sad event (though they might say that), but just another opportunity to attack their political opponents, the Labor government. Their chances of becoming the government again in the near future were already small, and this type of talk just makes it smaller.

 

[ZiprHead]

Something pointed out was that both shooters used bolt action rifles that must be cycled between each shot. Semi auto AR type rifles, as I understand, are not legal in Oz. Can you imagine how much more deaths and injuries there would have been if those two assholes had access to ARs?

 

[Tigers!]

The headline in my paper today - Australia vows stricter gun control. What a contrast with my country.

With my decades on this earth I have noticed that you Yanks are "gunnas".
You gunna do this and gunna do that but never actually do much.

[Though you are quick to bomb other people and gerrymander elections]

 

[Tigers!]

Yesterday youtube recommended me a half dozen videos by Australians on the Bondi Beach killings, including one from an LNP politician.
Some of the videos were pretty exaggerated, saying it was most important tragedy in Australia's history and will have extremely monumental impact on future of Australia. Personally I can think of many greater tragedies in Australia's history, including the past and still present mistreatment of the indigenous people, and our involvement in the Vietnam War.
The most disturbing thing about these videos were the comments, that included Islamaphobia, blaming the federal government, saying should get rid of the Labor Party, constant mentions of anti-Semitism, and so on, including hatred of gun control (except for Moslems). Many of these people expressed their sorrow for the victims, particularly the ten year old girl, yet in their normal life could be supporters of Trump, MAGA, TPUSA, and dare one say it anti-Semitism. Now it might be said I am being unfair, but their attitudes conveyed this impression.

Of course, what one reads in comments on youtube videos is from only an extremely small part of the population, so it doesn't reflect the majority view.

Josh Frydenberg, a former LNP federal government minister, if we take his words metaphorically is a traitor and terrorist accomplice, because he claimed he knew about the event (yet he didn't inform the AFP). His literal words were that the event was predictable.

I could have told you that that an such an event (viz. a mass attack on Jews) was inevitable in Australia. Location, size, method obviously unknown. Does that too make me a metaphorical tratitor and terrorist accomplice? It is just a matter of "reading the room".

We had the arson attack that destroyed the Addas synagoge in Melb. Dec. 2024. In July 2025 there was an arson attack on another synagoge.
Plus other smaller, less well-known events. It has been a slow build up to Bondi.
I do note that rarely does anyone from the Moselm community come out and publically deplore these attacks.

For too many years we have stood by on a state and commonwealth level as speech (gas the Jews, F--- the Jews, destroy Israel, from the river to the sea etc.) that in any other circumstance would be treated as hate speech and treated accordingly has not been done so.
Marchers every weekend since Oct 2023 in our capital city's have marched with ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas flags etc. and nothing was done to stop this display of hatred. They have chanted speech that should be considered hate speech.

We have not been looking after our Jewish brethen.

 

[Tigers!]

Something pointed out was that both shooters used bolt action rifles that must be cycled between each shot. Semi auto AR type rifles, as I understand, are not legal in Oz. Can you imagine how much more deaths and injuries there would have been if those two assholes had access to ARs?

I do not wish to imagine such a thing.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Something pointed out was that both shooters used bolt action rifles that must be cycled between each shot. Semi auto AR type rifles, as I understand, are not legal in Oz. Can you imagine how much more deaths and injuries there would have been if those two assholes had access to ARs?

It still would have been an imperceptible fraction of all deaths in Australia this year so why bother worrying about. Some poor soul has his right to an AR infringed!!1

 

[Patooka]

This was a terrible tragedy and I'm wondering why the killers owned legally registered guns for over 10 years. I heard this morning that Australian government plans to make it even harder to own guns legally. Wish we had such rational leaders in the US. It used to require a background check to obtain a concealed carry permit in Georgia, but our idiot governor dropped that requirement a few years ago, so now any idiot can carry concealed legally, as long as they haven't been convicted of a felony.

I did not know this and thank you for answering my OP. As far as I knew, Australia had gun control meaning that everyone had their guns taken away. Apparently that is not the case.

Makes you wonder how fucking ignorant you are of other things too, right?

 

[Patooka]

Something pointed out was that both shooters used bolt action rifles that must be cycled between each shot. Semi auto AR type rifles, as I understand, are not legal in Oz. Can you imagine how much more deaths and injuries there would have been if those two assholes had access to ARs?

Technically, they are legal. It's just they are so heavily regulated it's easier to say they are banned to a foreigner than to explain in legalese. Same with pistols.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Yesterday youtube recommended me a half dozen videos by Australians on the Bondi Beach killings, including one from an LNP politician.
Some of the videos were pretty exaggerated, saying it was most important tragedy in Australia's history and will have extremely monumental impact on future of Australia. Personally I can think of many greater tragedies in Australia's history, including the past and still present mistreatment of the indigenous people, and our involvement in the Vietnam War.
The most disturbing thing about these videos were the comments, that included Islamaphobia, blaming the federal government, saying should get rid of the Labor Party, constant mentions of anti-Semitism, and so on, including hatred of gun control (except for Moslems). Many of these people expressed their sorrow for the victims, particularly the ten year old girl, yet in their normal life could be supporters of Trump, MAGA, TPUSA, and dare one say it anti-Semitism. Now it might be said I am being unfair, but their attitudes conveyed this impression.

Of course, what one reads in comments on youtube videos is from only an extremely small part of the population, so it doesn't reflect the majority view.

Josh Frydenberg, a former LNP federal government minister, if we take his words metaphorically is a traitor and terrorist accomplice, because he claimed he knew about the event (yet he didn't inform the AFP). His literal words were that the event was predictable.

I could have told you that that an such an event (viz. a mass attack on Jews) was inevitable in Australia. Location, size, method obviously unknown. Does that too make me a metaphorical tratitor and terrorist accomplice? It is just a matter of "reading the room".

We had the arson attack that destroyed the Addas synagoge in Melb. Dec. 2024. In July 2025 there was an arson attack on another synagoge.
Plus other smaller, less well-known events. It has been a slow build up to Bondi.
I do note that rarely does anyone from the Moselm community come out and publically deplore these attacks.

For too many years we have stood by on a state and commonwealth level as speech (gas the Jews, F--- the Jews, destroy Israel, from the river to the sea etc.) that in any other circumstance would be treated as hate speech and treated accordingly has not been done so.
Marchers every weekend since Oct 2023 in our capital city's have marched with ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas flags etc. and nothing was done to stop this display of hatred. They have chanted speech that should be considered hate speech.

We have not been looking after our Jewish brethen.

I'm not sure if you understood my point. That such an event would happen is predictable. However, Josh in his criticism of the government implied that they should have been able to predict the time and place of this attack in detail. Therefore, if he is claiming to have this ability, which he obviously did not, then he would be negligent.
How do we know if the Moslem community deplored the attacks or not? It depends on the media. There was soon after the attack a video that I watched where a prominent Moslem did criticize the event.
There has also been hate speech from radical members of the Jewish community. There is also massive Islamophobia from too many Australians, in addition to their racism towards aborigines and Asians (especially the Chinese).
The way to look after our "Jewish brethren" is to look after everyone.

 

[ZiprHead]

Something pointed out was that both shooters used bolt action rifles that must be cycled between each shot. Semi auto AR type rifles, as I understand, are not legal in Oz. Can you imagine how much more deaths and injuries there would have been if those two assholes had access to ARs?

Technically, they are legal. It's just they are so heavily regulated it's easier to say they are banned to a foreigner than to explain in legalese. Same with pistols.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As I have said before 1/3 of my class of 25 are Muslim, and they are such beautiful kindhearted people.

So the Islamic takeover is very advanced in Australia as well then. It is certainly helped along by hypernatalism among Muslims.

IMO, to lump muslims together because of one idiotic radical is like saying all Germans are evil because of what Hitler did.

It's not just "one radical". Terrorism is very common in Islam, as is the desire to make the entire world subservient to Islam (which means "submission", btw). Just look at the thwarted Christmas Market attack plot in Bavaria, Germany.

Not very common. Just it's Iran is pouring billions into terrorism. Of course the result is terrorism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I would be in favour of Australia reintroducing the death penalty for those who cause tradegy like at Bondi.

No point to it--mass shooters typically expect to die in the process. Thus the death penalty is not a deterrent.

There are two factors involved, neither of which I think anything realistically can be done:

1) The notoriety. Some people would prefer to be infamous rather than a nobody. And we reward mass shootings with worldwide publicity.

2) The Islamist money that keeps pushing, finding people they can radicalize. They find people that for some reason have failed in life, feed them hate, feed them a perceived enemy. A few lash out. And it's not just Islam, we are seeing the same thing from the reich wing stirring up hate.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you are a felon carrying or trying to buy a gun in the US, you will get an extremely long sentence, at least in most cases.

Well, you will if you are caught and identified.

The point is that in the US, if you see a gun in somebody's home or car, (or even see someone carrying a gun in public in some states) that is not (on its own) cause for police action.

In the UK or Australia, if a person so much as sees a gun (other than in an obviously lawful context, say at a shooting range or in a hunting party), particularly in an urban or suburban setting, they will call the cops, and the cops take that report very seriously as a threat to the public.

But how many threats are actually discovered this way?

Many if not most of those who commit violent crimes in the US have no history of criminal activity. The guys in your country had no history of committing crimes, at least that's what I read in two different sources of news.

Yeah, I heard that the older gunman had a licence, which he couldn't have if he had a criminal record more serious than an unpaid parking ticket.

Which is the fundamental problem with mass shooters. They aren't criminals in the usual sense.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We understand it. We also understand that strict gun laws don't always work the way you think they ought to. For example... the vast majority of gun violence occurs in cities, but there's a higher per capita gun ownership in rural areas and outside of metropolitan areas. Many of those big cities that have big gun violence also have stricter gun laws. Many of the big cities that have big gun violence have big gang and drug-related issues as well.

Yup--substantial inverse relationship between guns per capita and crime. I don't think this is evidence of guns preventing crime but I do think it makes the notion of guns causing crime very problematic.

Note, also, that the numbers are distorted by gun "violence" counting suicide. Very different problem, can't use a one-size-fits-all solution. And the suicide rate goes up dramatically with age--how many of them are people not fighting health problems to the end? I have yet to see any data on this

Something that many europeans (including australia and new zealand for simplicity here) appear incapable of understanding is that we have a large land border across which the major source of cartel-based drugs are smuggled, distributed predominantly by gangs. Some of the absolute highest gun-related homicide rates in the world are in central and south america, and that spills over into the US.

Bear in mind that the US is BIG. We're 40 times bigger than the entire UK, 36 times bigger than NZ, and 28% bigger than AU (not including Alaska, by the way). And we share a large and fairly porous border with one of the world's largest producers of heroin, fentanyl, and meth, and which acts as a hands-off conduit for the world's largest producer of cocaine.

You're right that the US needs to figure out some sort of reasonable and sensible means to mitigate gun violence. But you're wrong if you think that citizen gun ownership is even remotely the biggest problem.

Yup, a big land border and land borders are always permeable. And there are enough guns in criminal hands already that cutting the flow isn't going to do much. Most of those murders are criminal on criminal and of little threat to anyone not living in a bad neighborhood. And a bad neighborhood isn't safe anywhere.

Want to take a big bite out of murders and crime in general? Take the drug war out and shoot it. And anyone in law enforcement who was working on the drug war is forever forbidden to have a position involving any sort of prohibition. Don't repeat the mistake of the repeal of Prohibition and put the cops to work on another forbidden substance!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The vast majority of gun violence in the US is committed by criminals, not by law abiding citizens.

How could it possibly be otherwise?

That you consider this a point worth making shows just how hopelessly lost you are.

No, the point is that those guns aren't a serious threat to the law abiding.

Whereas the severely limited self defense options of places like Australia strongly favor the criminals.

 

[laughing dog]

The vast majority of gun violence in the US is committed by criminals, not by law abiding citizens.

How could it possibly be otherwise?

That you consider this a point worth making shows just how hopelessly lost you are.

No, the point is that those guns aren't a serious threat to the law abiding.

Whereas the severely limited self defense options of places like Australia strongly favor the criminals.

I am under the impression that Australian crime rates are much lower than the USA’s in most categories. If my impression is accurate, your observation seems at odds with the data.

 

[Tigers!]

Yesterday youtube recommended me a half dozen videos by Australians on the Bondi Beach killings, including one from an LNP politician.
Some of the videos were pretty exaggerated, saying it was most important tragedy in Australia's history and will have extremely monumental impact on future of Australia. Personally I can think of many greater tragedies in Australia's history, including the past and still present mistreatment of the indigenous people, and our involvement in the Vietnam War.
The most disturbing thing about these videos were the comments, that included Islamaphobia, blaming the federal government, saying should get rid of the Labor Party, constant mentions of anti-Semitism, and so on, including hatred of gun control (except for Moslems). Many of these people expressed their sorrow for the victims, particularly the ten year old girl, yet in their normal life could be supporters of Trump, MAGA, TPUSA, and dare one say it anti-Semitism. Now it might be said I am being unfair, but their attitudes conveyed this impression.

Of course, what one reads in comments on youtube videos is from only an extremely small part of the population, so it doesn't reflect the majority view.

Josh Frydenberg, a former LNP federal government minister, if we take his words metaphorically is a traitor and terrorist accomplice, because he claimed he knew about the event (yet he didn't inform the AFP). His literal words were that the event was predictable.

I could have told you that that an such an event (viz. a mass attack on Jews) was inevitable in Australia. Location, size, method obviously unknown. Does that too make me a metaphorical tratitor and terrorist accomplice? It is just a matter of "reading the room".

We had the arson attack that destroyed the Addas synagoge in Melb. Dec. 2024. In July 2025 there was an arson attack on another synagoge.
Plus other smaller, less well-known events. It has been a slow build up to Bondi.
I do note that rarely does anyone from the Moselm community come out and publically deplore these attacks.

For too many years we have stood by on a state and commonwealth level as speech (gas the Jews, F--- the Jews, destroy Israel, from the river to the sea etc.) that in any other circumstance would be treated as hate speech and treated accordingly has not been done so.
Marchers every weekend since Oct 2023 in our capital city's have marched with ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas flags etc. and nothing was done to stop this display of hatred. They have chanted speech that should be considered hate speech.

We have not been looking after our Jewish brethen.

I'm not sure if you understood my point. That such an event would happen is predictable.

Just re-inforcing my point that antisemitism is not being taken seriously enough in Australia at present.

However, Josh in his criticism of the government implied that they should have been able to predict the time and place of this attack in detail. Therefore, if he is claiming to have this ability, which he obviously did not, then he would be negligent.

I have read as much as I could of Josh's comments. I did not see where he claimed that he knew precisely where/when the attack occurred nor accused the authorities of knowing such. Where exactly did he say those words?

How do we know if the Moslem community deplored the attacks or not? It depends on the media. There was soon after the attack a video that I watched where a prominent Moslem did criticize the event.

Criticise the event? Such a mild term. He should have condemned the évent' (as you call it) and its perpartraters. Do you have a link to that video?

There has also been hate speech from radical members of the Jewish community. There is also massive Islamophobia from too many Australians, in addition to their racism towards aborigines and Asians (especially the Chinese).
The way to look after our "Jewish brethren" is to look after everyone.

Yes we need to.

 

[Tigers!]

If you are a felon carrying or trying to buy a gun in the US, you will get an extremely long sentence, at least in most cases.

Well, you will if you are caught and identified.

The point is that in the US, if you see a gun in somebody's home or car, (or even see someone carrying a gun in public in some states) that is not (on its own) cause for police action.

In the UK or Australia, if a person so much as sees a gun (other than in an obviously lawful context, say at a shooting range or in a hunting party), particularly in an urban or suburban setting, they will call the cops, and the cops take that report very seriously as a threat to the public.

But how many threats are actually discovered this way?

The 1st 2 victims at Bodi were an elderly couple who saw the killed (sic) terrorist take out an IS flag and gun. The man tackled the terrorist and tried to get the gun off him but he and his wife were shot.
They discovered the threat but did not have the time to tell the police.

Many if not most of those who commit violent crimes in the US have no history of criminal activity. The guys in your country had no history of committing crimes, at least that's what I read in two different sources of news.

Yeah, I heard that the older gunman had a licence, which he couldn't have if he had a criminal record more serious than an unpaid parking ticket.

Which is the fundamental problem with mass shooters. They aren't criminals in the usual sense.