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How should west respond to potential (likely) U.S. invasion of Venezuela?

Empire? Egad, we are going to lose Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands?
 
So far, The West responded with "We need more time to come up with response"
But seriously, how is that different from Syria (Obama), Iraq (Bush) and Libya (Obama)? (all have oil)
The only difference these were muslim countries.
 
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Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
A couple of things to add...

(1) Trump has said of newly sworn in President Rodriguez that she will remain in power so long as "she does what we want."

(2) At least 40 Venezuelans (troops and civilians) were killed during the kidnapping of Maduro. Some 32 Cuban soldiers were also killed. The tally of Venezuelans killed is changing over time as more information is found out about the dead.
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B - Is this in your own words? Have you a quote? I know there was a conversation and dear Delcy came around to Trump's way of thinking. I assume she was made an offer she couldn't refuse but I am, moreover, I know when I am adding color to a comment.

Trump removed what was widely seen as an illegitimate president. The irony is not lost on me. So far, that's it. Venezuela is moving forward IAW their constitution.

The oil companies are waiting for stability before moving forward. I've read nothing further on this matter.

In as far as the legality of what this administration did goes, I will trust the opinion of the United Nations and the collective opinion of what I still consider our European allies. I say collective because Britain has a habit of being a bit overly pro-US administration.
 
barbos said:
So far, The West responded with "We need more time to come up with response"
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It is more like 'we have no idea what Trump is doing, so it is hard to say one thing or the other'.
barbos said:
But seriously, how is that different from Syria (Obama), Iraq (Bush) and Libya (Obama)? (all have oil)
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I'm not certain there are much in the way of similarities are to any of these things. Libya was regime change but just US intel support while on-going. Iraq was regime change via a full blown invasion/occupation and US transition "governance". Syria... that was former ISIS that overthrew Assad. The US didn't quite involve itself in Syria in the same manner regarding any regime change or occupation.

In Venezuela, the only change at the moment is who is serving as President... which is Maduro's VP. The entire Maduro government, except for Maduro is still in some level of power. The conflicting statements by Trump and Rubio have created a ton of confusion as to what is actually going on. We are more looking at what hasn't happened than what is happening. And what hasn't happened is the dissolving of the Venezuelan Government. And certainly no occupation.

What Trump / Rubio are demanding is awkward and how it can be accomodated also seems convoluted... as if somebody made a sudden decision to act... without any viable plan beyond the arrest of Maduro. If Trump said elections would be held in three months, I think the West would be uneasy about the whole thing, but would likely let it be. However, as things stand we don't know where any of this is heading, so condemnation is hard because it isn't known what exactly needs to be condemned.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
The entire Maduro government, except for Maduro is still in some level of power.
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Yup. Trump has simply replaced one corrupt leader (Maduro) with another (himself).
"If there's any stealing to be done I'm going to do it!"
 
Elixir said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The entire Maduro government, except for Maduro is still in some level of power.
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Yup. Trump has simply replaced one corrupt leader (Maduro) with another (himself).
"If there's any stealing to be done I'm going to do it!"
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He isn't in charge though. It is the damnedest thing. He doesn't care what happens in Venezuela and is happy to let the totalitarian Socialist Government do whatever they desire... he just wants a "freely plunder Venezuela as you want" card.

The response from the new President is very much asterisked on conditions as it is conciliatory.
 
TV and credit cards said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
A couple of things to add...

(1) Trump has said of newly sworn in President Rodriguez that she will remain in power so long as "she does what we want."

(2) At least 40 Venezuelans (troops and civilians) were killed during the kidnapping of Maduro. Some 32 Cuban soldiers were also killed. The tally of Venezuelans killed is changing over time as more information is found out about the dead.
Click to expand...
B - Is this in your own words? Have you a quote? I know there was a conversation and dear Delcy came around to Trump's way of thinking. I assume she was made an offer she couldn't refuse but I am, moreover, I know when I am adding color to a comment.
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The Guardian
After the shocking capture and rendition of Maduro on Saturday, Trump said the US would now “run” Venezuela, add that Rodríguez, would remain in power only so long as she “does what we want”.

On Sunday, he warned the US might launch a second strike if remaining members of the administration do not cooperate with his efforts to get the country “fixed”.
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NY Post
Asked by The Post if “US troops [will] be on the ground helping run the country,” Trump said: “No, if Maduro’s vice president — if the vice president does what we want, we won’t have to do that.”

“We’re prepared,” Trump added. “You know, we have a second wave that’s much bigger than the first wave.”
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Of course there is some little bit more nuance to the threat because it isn't clear if he is saying the US will manage it with an occupation or go and arrest her or remove her from power directly without arresting her. But each and every option implies that her power over the country will be removed, i.e., she will be removed from power if she does not do "what we want." And by "we" it isn't clear who that is--him and his friends, him and the MAGAs, oligarchs, ..., ...I don't think he's talking about me and him when he says we, right? You could say that it's quite common for countries' leaders to use the royal we to refer to the countries they lead, but Trump is doing whatever he wants and whomever he means by we probably really means "I." So, I think if I were to color the quote it'd be more like "Quiet Piggy, you better do what I want."
 
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So, Trump had Maduro arrested for Narco-terrorism.

Didn't Trump like pardon some other former Latin American leader who was convicted of narco-terrorism?

If I didn't know better, Trump's actions might indicate he isn't principled. :eek:
 
DrZoidberg said:
They won't attack Colombia. For all it's problems, Colombia is doing fine.
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What do you imagine "doing fine" has to do with it? The question is whether beating them up will benefit Donald J Trump, or help satisfy his unslakeable thirst for causing people pain. I suspect that he will leave them alone, or put Don Junior in charge so Dad doesn't have to keep paying for his cocaine habit. (/sarcasm)
WAB said:
barbos said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Empire? Egad, we are going to lose Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands?
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Hawaii too.
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Hawaii is a state. Like Canada and Greenland.


:rimshot:
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Only warmer. It would make a great "Trump Island Chain Resort."
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
So, Trump had Maduro arrested for Narco-terrorism.

Didn't Trump like pardon some other former Latin American leader who was convicted of narco-terrorism?

If I didn't know better, Trump's actions might indicate he isn't principled. :eek:
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Clearly all of the murdering people on boats was a smoke screen for OIL. He had over 100 people murdered for a reason that does not exist.
 
Our beloved President pardoned the former president of Honduras, who'd been convicted of sending 400 tons of cocaine to the US. He pardoned another drug trafficker who was serving two life sentences plus 40 years. I assume Trump's base doesn't hear about this, and if they do, they couldn't care less.
The Prez went on social media last night/early morning, posting multiple heavy-duty sacks of fertilizer, including the conspiracy theory that Tim Walz was behind the murder of the Hortmans in Minnesota. Their children have issued a plea for Trump to take down those posts. You know, like people have done before, to, approximately, zero other Presidents. Deranged, evil, ignorant, the DEI of Trumpdom.
I can't bring myself to read more about our new Venezuela adventure, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the administration seems to have no plans for occupation. No boots on the ground. We're going to run the place by issuing threats, is that it? Or is even that much established?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Colonel Sanders said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Colonel Sanders said:
The U.S. would come to Taiwan's aid. There's no question about it. It's not a question worth taking seriously. There's also zero evidence that Trump traded Venezuela for Ukraine. Venezuela is in our sphere of influence, which is far, far away from Russian interests. Meanwhile, NATO, along with U.S. support, will continue to aid in Russia's pathetic military failure in Ukraine.

Stop with the paranoia, hyperbole, and wild speculation. It's a waste of bandwidth.
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Dude, you aren't reading between the lines. This Venezuela action crossed a line... well several of them. It is too early to tell just how bad this is, but it appears to be pretty bad. It is apparently clear the Trump Admin threw Maduro out of Venezuela without a fucking plan on who or what would replace him. At least the Neocons had that fraud Chalabi in mind. There is no plan for Venezuela, this appears to have just happened on a relative whim.
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I said myself that there doesn't appear to be a plan in place.

You quoted a post of mine that had nothing to do with that. In the above-quoted post, I addressed the unfounded hysteria about potential outcomes in other situations.
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True, I'd say I didn't finish my thoughts well.

This action and the language coming out of Rubio is indicative of a massive shift in US governance on a global scale. While I wouldn't immediately say Taiwan is doomed, I would say Trump has possibly enacted a brazenly radical Monroe Doctrine. If it is in the Western Hemisphere, it can be ours.

Rubio notes the oil in Venezuela is in "quarantine". That is a remarkably strong statement to make. Especially when the US presumably lacks any military capacity to control the oil at the source.

I'm also curious what the oil companies are thinking as well.
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Whatever the oil companies are thinking, we as U.S. citizens will never see any benefit from it. If that were the case, control of Iraqi oil fields would have us at about $1.00 per gallon at the pump.

Anyway, we threw trillions of military dollars at Iraq and if necessary, we'll do the same thing now.

As for Taiwan, it won't happen. It'd be a costly affair, no doubt about it, but China wouldn't be able to get the job done. They'd be at 50% capacity before they approached Taiwanese shores; and at 50% capacity no military force is viable. They're not going to risk their economy and a potential and even likely widening of the war to Korea, let alone the potential for nuclear war.

I've seen and read the scenario gamed out several different times. Sometimes China prevails, usually it doesn't, but what they all have to allow for is no preemptive attack by the U.S. and its allies in order for China to win. There would have to be a massive buildup of troops and equipment without anyone noticing and that's not going to happen.

Their equipment, soldiers, tactics, and logistics are 100% untested in real combat. Whatever they have gamed out on paper would be shredded in an hour.
 
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