Immigration Issues

[Bomb#20]

Why should we trust the government's claims about the legal status of the immigrants they're rounding up when we know they lie? Simple question. You don't have an honest answer though.

Serious question: why do you trump up false, baseless damaging accusations with malice and reckless disregard for the truth against other posters?

Not all other posters. Just certain ones I already know are acting in bad faith.

You know nothing of the sort. You believe I'm acting in bad faith. You're mistaken; and you don't believe it based on any evidence for it. You believe it because you've (correctly) pegged me as an infidel. You've decided I'm acting in bad faith because you're prejudiced against infidels. I'm in your outgroup, and treating outgroup members with justice isn't important to you, because your mind is tribal to the core, so you don't care enough whether the claims you make about me are true to go to the effort of fact-checking them.

Serious question: why do you trump up false, baseless damaging accusations with malice and reckless disregard for the truth against other posters?

Not all other posters. Just certain ones I already know are acting in bad faith.

And they are not baseless or trumped up.

Of course they are. You don't have a reason to believe they aren't. Your opinion of me is the product of your bigotry against unbelievers, not rational inference from anything I said.

Why should we trust the government's claims about the legal status of the immigrants they're rounding up when we know they lie? Simple question. You don't have an honest answer though.

The whole <expletive deleted> point is that we KNOW we we can't trust their claims.

They are going after people here LEGALLY! I have first person (and you have second hand at least, now) knowledge of this.

Bomb can GTFO with that dishonest <expletive deleted>.

That's a trumped-up baseless accusation against me, made with malice and reckless disregard for the truth. So, since apparently you overlooked it the first time, same question to you I already asked GN. Where the hell do you imagine you saw me say we should trust the government's claims? We should not.

To both of you: free your minds. In case you don't know how, the secret is to apply critical thought to yourselves, not just to your enemies.

 

[Bomb#20]

So you have an entirely sufficient explanation for "the enforcement is totally against minorities", making persecution, like God, a hypothesis you have no need of

There is considerable anecdotal evidence of disproportionate arrests of minorities, and not even that to support the hypothesis of even-handed application of the law. So you have an entirely sufficient explanation for "the enforcement is totally predominantly against minorities", making even handed, race-blind enforcement of laws, like God, a hypothesis you have no need of desperately need to lean on, regardless of its merits or lack thereof.

Huh, I don't recall making a hypothesis; I recall giving a reason the previous poster's argument didn't imply his conclusion.

I wouldn't be surprised if enforcement of immigration laws is no more even-handed and race-blind than enforcement of shoplifting laws. If you want to argue biased policing implies persecution, can you walk me through your reasoning? I'm told white thieves are less likely to get caught than black thieves. Do you think this means shoplifting prohibition is persecution of blacks? Seems to me it means the problem is that white people are getting away with it, not that black people aren't.

For Alligator Alcatraz to be an internment camp, the bulk of its inmates would need to be there for being ethnic Latino, rather than for breaking immigration laws. What made Manzanar an internment camp was that the inmates were there for being ethnic Japanese. It wasn't that the government didn't lock up enough white people.

 

[bilby]

For Alligator Alcatraz to be an internment camp, the bulk of its inmates would need to be there for being ethnic Latino, rather than for breaking immigration laws.

If someone is grabbed by ICE on suspicion of breaking immigration laws, and is then denied due process, and denied any opportunity to show that they did not break those laws, then they are there for looking like an illegal immigrant, in the opinion of ICE officers. That's closer to being there "for being ethnic Latino" than it is to being there "for breaking immigration laws".

A person who has been imprisoned and denied due process, is not there for breaking laws at all - at least, not if the principle of the presumption of innocence is still a foundation of the law.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

For Alligator Alcatraz to be an internment camp, the bulk of its inmates would need to be there for being ethnic Latino, rather than for breaking immigration laws.

If someone is grabbed by ICE on suspicion of breaking immigration laws, and is then denied due process, and denied any opportunity to show that they did not break those laws, then they are there for looking like an illegal immigrant, in the opinion of ICE officers. That's closer to being there "for being ethnic Latino" than it is to being there "for breaking immigration laws".

A person who has been imprisoned and denied due process, is not there for breaking laws at all - at least, not if the principle of the presumption of innocence is still a foundation of the law.

It's not even true that internment camps have to be solely about ethnicity, either.

INTERNMENT CAMP Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

INTERNMENT CAMP definition: a prison camp for the confinement of prisoners of war, enemy aliens, political prisoners, etc. See examples of internment camp used in a sentence.

www.dictionary.com

1. a prison camp for the confinement of prisoners of war, enemy aliens, political prisoners, etc.

Illegal immigrants have repeatedly been referred to as enemy combatants, enemy aliens, by this administration, an so, this definition fits, regardless of the ethnicity of the interned. Once again, Bomb#20 is just using his own definitions of things and pretending he's correct. He could've just looked up the definition, but again, it requires too much brain power for these types.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Why should we trust the government's claims about the legal status of the immigrants they're rounding up when we know they lie? Simple question. You don't have an honest answer though.

Serious question: why do you trump up false, baseless damaging accusations with malice and reckless disregard for the truth against other posters?

Not all other posters. Just certain ones I already know are acting in bad faith.

You know nothing of the sort. You believe I'm acting in bad faith. You're mistaken; and you don't believe it based on any evidence for it. You believe it because you've (correctly) pegged me as an infidel. You've decided I'm acting in bad faith because you're prejudiced against infidels. I'm in your outgroup, and treating outgroup members with justice isn't important to you, because your mind is tribal to the core, so you don't care enough whether the claims you make about me are true to go to the effort of fact-checking them.

No, this is how I know you're acting in bad faith. Because you assume I've "pegged you as an infidel", when by your own reasoning you know nothing of the sort either. I just despise those who use lazy arguments, like yourself. That's about it really.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For Alligator Alcatraz to be an internment camp, the bulk of its inmates would need to be there for being ethnic Latino, rather than for breaking immigration laws. What made Manzanar an internment camp was that the inmates were there for being ethnic Japanese. It wasn't that the government didn't lock up enough white people.

What provides Alligator Alcatraz the consideration of being considered a concentration camp is the image they were attempting to imply with it. A purpose made holding facility in an inhospitable swamp. It was created to instill a sick sense of fear in people that the alt-right could enjoy. Fear that it didn't matter why you were here or the legal justifications that did (asylum candidate, temporary visa, student visa) or didn't (undocumented) exist. We built this so you could suffer in it.

Which in a sense makes it much worse than the Japanese (and Italian) internment camps. That was paranoia. Alligator Alcatraz was about a psychopathic level desire to make people suffer.

 

[Jarhyn]

I didn't read the article, but opened the link and searched for the word antifa. I could not find it.

The left gets accused of "throwing around the word Nazi" but the right throws around the word "Antifa" so much it loses all meaning.

I mean, there's video of people walking around with SS tattoos. That's who they recruited for ICE. There's video documentation of the actual fucking Nazis in ICE being Nazis.

It's not a metaphor.

It's not hyperbole.

It is actual literal truth that ICE are Nazis.

The only way you live and work and interact with people who are openly Nazi in any way that is not in direct resistance to all that they stand for is if you are a Nazi yourself.

These folks are revealing themselves to be exactly the thing they accuse 'antifa' of being.

I have family and friends living in the Minneapolis metropolitan area, including in Minneapolis itself. People I know, care about and love attend protests, are part of rapid response teams, buy groceries and other necessities for those who need it. People I know who have been naturalized citizens for decades now carry passports whenever they leave their homes. The murders of Renée Good and Alex Pretti were in the neighborhoods of people I love. The stress is extreme, even for those of us who do not live in the metropolitan area.

And of course TSwizz rolls their eyes at the idea that people are kind of terrified of Nazis on our streets abducting our friends and co-workers, people who are members of communities and have been for many years.

Roll your eyes at the roll-in of it all?

For Alligator Alcatraz to be an internment camp, the bulk of its inmates would need to be there for being ethnic Latino, rather than for breaking immigration laws.

If someone is grabbed by ICE on suspicion of breaking immigration laws, and is then denied due process, and denied any opportunity to show that they did not break those laws, then they are there for looking like an illegal immigrant, in the opinion of ICE officers. That's closer to being there "for being ethnic Latino" than it is to being there "for breaking immigration laws".

A person who has been imprisoned and denied due process, is not there for breaking laws at all - at least, not if the principle of the presumption of innocence is still a foundation of the law.

Also, why would the "bulk" of its inmates need to be? If even a few people are being interned in the camp, it's an internment camp.

It's not zero-sum. Something can be a "prison" for most, and still be an "internment camp" even for a tiny minority being interned there.

It's a filthy, bald, No-true-scotsman.

 

[ZiprHead]

Sorry. No. I will not play your semantic games. Goodbye.

I.e., it had nothing to do with my dispute. You could have perfectly well posted your quick facts without trying to involve me, and should have. Until next time...

I posted that in response to Elixir, not you.

True; but your post had nothing to do with Elixir's side of our dispute either. You didn't have a good reason to involve either of us.

Already addressed why posting of the statistic was pertinent.. You are wrong.

 

[Elixir]

I wouldn't be surprised if enforcement of immigration laws is no more even-handed and race-blind than enforcement of shoplifting laws.

I would be surprised if you have a reliable “even handed, race-blind” quotient for shoplifting enforcement, so that is a meaningless-but-safe conjecture.

If you want to argue biased policing implies persecution, can you walk me through your reasoning?

If you want to tell me what I am arguing, go ahead and indulge yourself -it is/was a free country as long as you don’t get Trump’s attention for criticizing him.

I'm told white thieves are less likely to get caught than black thieves. Do you think this means shoplifting prohibition is persecution of blacks?

More likely the racism of those in charge of surveillance systems and enforcement personnel rather than conscious ideological anti black bias. When such reflexive racism predominates, yeah. As a sociological feature, it becomes persecution.

Seems to me it means the problem is that white people are getting away with it, not that black people aren't.

Don’t ask yourself WHY whitey skates while the nigga gets busted.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Do you think this means shoplifting prohibition is persecution of blacks? Seems to me it means the problem is that white people are getting away with it, not that black people aren't.

Congratulations, you just argued against something nobody is arguing, and is irrelevant to what's being argued. You know how you accuse others of irrelevant arguments all the time? This is what you're doing now.

 

[crazyfingers]

For Trump and Miller, cruelty is the goal

‘I’m dead.’ As Haitian temporary protected status ends tomorrow, it’s unknown how people will survive.​

For tens of thousands of Haitians in Massachusetts, this week brings a multitude of concerns and questions, the answers to which could be life-altering.

How will they find legal work? Could they gain asylum status? Will they be sent back to Haiti, a country torn apart by gang violence? What will become of their children, some of whom are American citizens?

They have lived here under Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, a legal protection that shields immigrants from deportation and grants them work permits. It is reserved for those fleeing countries in the midst of upheaval.

But such protection will cease for Haitians on Tuesday, per an order by the Trump administration. In Massachusetts, an estimated 45,000 Haitian TPS holders are being thrown into limbo, stripped of their ability to work and paralyzed by a fear they will be sent back to a country in violent chaos that some of them have not visited for decades.

‘I’m dead.’ As Haitian temporary protected status ends tomorrow, it’s unknown how people will survive. - The Boston Globe

TPS, a legal status reserved for those fleeing countries in upheaval, is slated to end for Haitians on Tuesday.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[TSwizzle]

Animals



The baying mob are screaming "punch her". The cowardly thug then goes on to drop kick her from behind knocking her to the ground.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Animals



The baying mob are screaming "punch her". The cowardly thug then goes on to drop kick her from behind knocking her to the ground.

Then they should go to jail for whatever duration the judge decides within the legal parameters. However, not executed in the street.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Literally agreeing with Tswizzle, and he still eye rolls. Lmao.

 

[Gospel]

Animals



The baying mob are screaming "punch her". The cowardly thug then goes on to drop kick her from behind knocking her to the ground.

While it makes me angry to imagine one of my loved ones being treated that way, I’m not going to dehumanize them in return (call them animals). That kind of thinking is exactly what allows people to stop seeing someone as an individual and treat her that way in the first place.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Animals



The baying mob are screaming "punch her". The cowardly thug then goes on to drop kick her from behind knocking her to the ground.

While it makes me angry to imagine one of my loved ones being treated that way, I’m not going to dehumanize them in return (call them animals). That kind of thinking is exactly what allows people to stop seeing someone as an individual and treat her that way in the first place.

This requires too much forethought for some.

 

[TSwizzle]

Animals



The baying mob are screaming "punch her". The cowardly thug then goes on to drop kick her from behind knocking her to the ground.

While it makes me angry to imagine one of my loved ones being treated that way, I’m not going to dehumanize them in return (call them animals). That kind of thinking is exactly what allows people to stop seeing someone as an individual and treat her that way in the first place.

If they behave like wild animals, then that is what they are.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Animals



The baying mob are screaming "punch her". The cowardly thug then goes on to drop kick her from behind knocking her to the ground.

While it makes me angry to imagine one of my loved ones being treated that way, I’m not going to dehumanize them in return (call them animals). That kind of thinking is exactly what allows people to stop seeing someone as an individual and treat her that way in the first place.

If they behave like wild animals, then that is what they are.

Well no, they would still just be *like* wild animals. Being *like* a wild animal is not the same thing as being a wild animal.

 

[Gospel]

Animals



The baying mob are screaming "punch her". The cowardly thug then goes on to drop kick her from behind knocking her to the ground.

While it makes me angry to imagine one of my loved ones being treated that way, I’m not going to dehumanize them in return (call them animals). That kind of thinking is exactly what allows people to stop seeing someone as an individual and treat her that way in the first place.

If they behave like wild animals, then that is what they are.

Call yourself whatever makes you feel better.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Children are often *like* wild animals, but they are not themselves wild animals.