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2026 Mid-Term Elections

<perfectly legitimate argument snipped>
Question: Why are you schilling yourself for the massively wealthy? Do you think you will be one of them someday?
Question: Why are you shilling for the Bolsheviks? Do you think they will include you in the Politburo someday?

Question 2: Do leftists have any arguments that are not, ultimately, ad hominem?
Do rightists have any arguments that are not, ultimately, slippery slope?
Yep. That’s the thing. If we’re going to go after a guy hard because he has more than me; how do I know that I’m not next?
We can make laws and set regulations in place. That's a thing.
 
You received an increase in value.
Did you 'recieve' the car as an investment, for it's resale value? Most folk get cars to drive em till they wear-out, you expect them to devalue. Should you get a tax return for it's wear n tear.
Every car has 'value' in it's usefulness. It has monatery value only if sold. Till then any increase in value is just a pipe dream. Just someone's opinion, not an increase in actual money.
Most people do not buy Aston Martins in order to drive them until they wear out. I suspect that most people who buy Aston Martins purchase them assuming their value will hold, long term or perhaps increase.

Now, if you are talking about your average SUV or sedan pick up, you’d likely be correct. People drive them until they feel it is no longer worthwhile to keep them going. That’s what we do in our family.
Actually most luxury cars fall in value a little faster than regular cars. The used market is very small.
 
<perfectly legitimate argument snipped>
Question: Why are you schilling yourself for the massively wealthy? Do you think you will be one of them someday?
Question: Why are you shilling for the Bolsheviks? Do you think they will include you in the Politburo someday?
In case you haven't noticed, there's a helluva lot of Americans that are hurting. Many just one car repair from being homeless. While at the same time the right wants to take away programs that help the average person to finance huge tax cuts for the wealthy and big corp.

Question 2: Do leftists have any arguments that are not, ultimately, ad hominem?
Pretty cheeky of you to accuse me of only using ad hominems when you edited out my other points that were not ad homs. Not a good look on you.
 
She disagrees. I'm hung up on it because it seems painfully obvious to me that people trying for taxation levels sufficient to eliminate billionaires aren't doing it for the sake of extra tax revenue -- a guy who gets to a billion half way through the year and is prohibited from making any more is going to go on vacation rather than agree to work for nothing, so actual tax receipts will go down when the tax rate is hiked up that much. So they're motivated by a wish to hurt their outgroup, not by a wish to accomplish anything positive for anyone. I don't think pure harm is an appropriate goal for government policy.
Tax rates are and should continue to be progressive. Someone who has an income of $1B would still have an income of $90M if they paid 91% income tax without loopholes.

I have zero respect for anyone who cannot manage to get by on that.
Fred Phelps had zero respect for anyone who cannot manage to get by without gay sex. To ban people from doing stuff we should need a better reason than that they can get by without it.

...
THAT undermines our democracy and what is turning our country into a kleptocracy.
In a democracy when the people want a government service they're supposed to vote to tax themselves to pay for it. What's turning our country into a kleptocracy is our culture of getting services by voting to tax someone else to pay for it.
Bullshit. That's not what is happening. It's an incredibly stupid thing to say while the Right is actively working to cut back services to pay for tax breaks for the wealthy and big corp. If you cannot see that I cannot help you.
 
I was pretty clear about my reasons for believing we need to take the wealthy especially the uber wealthy more.
Yes -- you appear to perceive them as your enemy so you'd like the government to treat them as its enemy.
Wow! Taxing someone is treating them as an enemy. There's your whole attitude in a nutshell.

And you criticize other for ad homs.
 
We’re all subsidizing Bezos, if you want something to complain about.
Are we? Because buying from a company is not the same as subsidizing the part-owner. You are not subsidizing Piggly Wiggly (or whatever the grocery store you guys have in your neck of the woods - rural areas around here often have Piggly Wiggly) either when you shop there.
And Musk who seems bent on producing as many children he doesn’t raise ( in his case that’s a good thing).
Presumably he does pay a lot of child support for them though. The taxpayer is not subsidizing his kids. Unlike some guy who has 14 kids as well but all his baby mamas are on SNAP and Medicaid.
Well, actually we are subsidizing Musk. SpaceX lives on government contracts, and Tesla would have had a tough time finding a place in the market without electric car and Powerwall subsidies.
We’re also subsidizing Bezos but yes, more baldly, we are subsiding Musk. Not to mention paying him directly Abd giving his little band of minions fee reign to decimate government t agencies and collect the personal data of everyone who pays taxes in the US. Talk about a gift!
 
We’re all subsidizing Bezos, if you want something to complain about.
Are we? Because buying from a company is not the same as subsidizing the part-owner. You are not subsidizing Piggly Wiggly (or whatever the grocery store you guys have in your neck of the woods - rural areas around here often have Piggly Wiggly) either when you shop there.
...
Of course we are. We are subsidizing any employer who pays employees so poorly that they must supplement their income by food stamps, Medicaid, and other poverty relief measures. We are subsidizing them by increased number of children who need to go to subsidized daycares, Head Start programs, be in Medicaid, or free lunch programs, etc.
That's religious catechism, not economic reasoning. If a guy does not have the skill set to increase any employer's revenue enough to cover the cost of supporting himself and his family, he has a problem. When an employer buys the guy's labor at fair market value, she's solving part of his problem for him. If you solve part of somebody's problem, that does not magically make his whole problem your problem. You might as well claim his food stamps are a subsidy to his grocer because the grocer doesn't sell him $500 worth of food for the $200 he can earn himself.

We also are subsidizing all corporations by building infrastructure: roads, water and sewer, utilities, etc.
Corporations pay corporate income taxes that help finance that infrastructure. You haven't shown the tax revenue is less than the cost of providing the service.

We are especially subsidizing corporations every single time they are given tax breaks when they decide to build another store or warehouse in any community.
Corporations, like most other economic actors, shed positive externalities that they don't get paid for into their economic ecosystems by the boatload. The reason local governments offer tax breaks is because they want those externalities. That's only a subsidy if the externalities are insufficient to make up for the lost tax revenue, i.e., if the local government officials made a bad deal. Local officials are sometimes stupid or corrupt, sure, but often they offer tax breaks because it's a good deal for their community.

We are subsidizing them by allowing mega corporations such as Amazon and Walmart to underpay their suppliers and by cornering the market after they’ve drive out more local retailers —at which point they are free to charges they want and supply what they choose. When people have few choices about where and what they can buy because other options have been eliminated, we have helped create that situation by subsidizing corporations that do not, in fact, need the subsidies to survive or thrive.

This is off the top of my head.
:consternation2: Overall, Amazon and Walmart have increased people's choices enormously.
Did you swallow whatever Loren drinks and now must rely on denigrating any argument t against which you cannot defend by calling it religion?

This is ignorant even for you. You can snatch some verbiage off of AI all you want t but that dies t mean you actually understand the terms or their usage or basic economics.

You have not shown how corporations DO pay enough tax to offset their demands for new infrastructure not their use of existing infrastructure.

What is this bullshit elitist corporate worshipping crappoloa about it being workers fault that local entities allow Walmart to wipe out local businesses leaving local people little choice about their employer Abd then criticizing the workers for not offering enough value to the corporations?

Corporations exist to provide goods and services to people—and profits to shareholders, of course. Which would not exist without people wishing to buy what the corporation sells.

People do not exist to benefit corporations, increase their profits or to benefit shareholders.
 
As for how it compares to a billionaire's use, we'd have to take it item by item.
Sure, if you are determined to portray something like equal use.
They use Medicaid, emergency rooms for non-emergency medical problems, social services, food stamps, EITC, and public parks and sidewalks as homes more than a billionaire would.
Billionaires don’t use emergency rooms, they tie up entire wards of hospitals if something ails them. They don’t use public parks. If they so desire they have their own parks and the public is verboten to use them. But that’s not strictly “consumption” so it never enters your equation.
Medicare, could be the same. Roads, less.
See above. Direct use - less. Consumptive use - vastly more.
Public schools and police protection, that's going to depend on how you measure it and I'd expect estimates to vary wildly.
The dynamic in play in ‘Murka conceals billionaires’ consumption of “public” assets, largely by privatizing what was once accessible to the public - but that effect is never accounted for.
Poor people don’t claim thousands of acres as their own, or used”public” airports and associated infrastructure for their private travel, or public harbors for their yachts …
You argument sounds like someone saying Richard Branson is a lot thinner than the obese homeless person on TSwizzle’s doorstep, so he must consume a lot less.
Examples can be constructed but the underlying structure is where the inequality mostly resides.

Billionaires use public assets more through influence, ownership, and tax treatment than through direct day-to-day consumption. They can shape public systems to their advantage, rely on public infrastructure and services at scale, and routinely capture more of the benefits from commons that everyone funds. Of course you can come up with myriad examples of shit poor people consume that rich people don’t, but that’s a distraction, and does not begin to match the scale. Poor people eating all the ramen noodles doesn’t cancel out billionaires getting preferential rates on mega-loans.
 
The dynamic in play in ‘Murka conceals billionaires’ consumption of “public” assets, largely by privatizing what was once accessible to the public - but that effect is never accounted for.
It's been going on for a long time. As described in the well known 18th century quatrain by that prolific author, Anon:

They hang the man and flog the woman,
Who steals a goose from off the common,
But leave the greater rascal loose,
Who steals the common from the goose.
 
<perfectly legitimate argument snipped>
Question: Why are you schilling yourself for the massively wealthy? Do you think you will be one of them someday?
Question: Why are you shilling for the Bolsheviks? Do you think they will include you in the Politburo someday?
In case you haven't noticed, there's a helluva lot of Americans that are hurting. Many just one car repair from being homeless. While at the same time the right wants to take away programs that help the average person to finance huge tax cuts for the wealthy and big corp.

Question 2: Do leftists have any arguments that are not, ultimately, ad hominem?
Pretty cheeky of you to accuse me of only using ad hominems when you edited out my other points that were not ad homs. Not a good look on you.
Nevermind
 
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I was pretty clear about my reasons for believing we need to take the wealthy especially the uber wealthy more.
Yes -- you appear to perceive them as your enemy so you'd like the government to treat them as its enemy.
Wow! Taxing someone is treating them as an enemy. There's your whole attitude in a nutshell.

And you criticize other for ad homs.
Oh for the love of god! I didn't say taxing someone is treating them as an enemy! I said taxing someone not to raise revenue but in order to hurt them -- to tax them so heavily you kill their incentive to produce more wealth and thereby reduce revenue -- is treating them as an enemy. Sanders-style 100% tax brackets and Toni-style billionaire elimination treat the uber-wealthy as an enemy. This isn't rocket science.
 
We’re also subsidizing Bezos but yes, more baldly, we are subsiding Musk.
How exactly are "we" doing that?
Not to mention paying him directly
You mean by buying goods and services he is selling? What's wrong with that if he has, for example, more affordable launch vehicles than the competition?
Abd giving his little band of minions fee reign to decimate government t agencies and collect the personal data of everyone who pays taxes in the US. Talk about a gift!
The DOGE debacle was pretty bad, I agree there. That does not mean that your idea of confiscatory wealth taxes is a good one.
 
We’re also subsidizing Bezos but yes, more baldly, we are subsiding Musk.
How exactly are "we" doing that?
Not to mention paying him directly
You mean by buying goods and services he is selling? What's wrong with that if he has, for example, more affordable launch vehicles than the competition?
Abd giving his little band of minions fee reign to decimate government t agencies and collect the personal data of everyone who pays taxes in the US. Talk about a gift!
The DOGE debacle was pretty bad, I agree there. That does not mean that your idea of confiscatory wealth taxes is a good one.
There is nothing confiscatory about paying one’s fair share.

I am a firm believer in properly compensating employees and vendors. Bezos does neither. Instead he creates predatory conditions under which vendors have little choice but to agree to his terms. We do absolutely subsidize Bezos’ employees if they are unable to afford basic necessities such as food and healthcare Abd housing and transportation without taxpayer funded subsidies. Same thing only much worse with Walmart.

Musk obtained sweetheart non-competitive contracts —paid for by you and me—for his various satellites and launches, most of which have failed. Somehow,none carrying any ‘important’ people. The amount of energy and resources expended to satisfy the vanity of a few celebrities could have better been spent on basic necessities for mere mortals.
 
The dynamic in play in ‘Murka conceals billionaires’ consumption of “public” assets, largely by privatizing what was once accessible to the public - but that effect is never accounted for.
Poor people don’t claim thousands of acres as their own,
Is your argument that all land "rightly" belongs to the government and that thus any private land ownership is consuming "public resources"?
or used”public” airports
Plenty of poor and lower middle class people fly at least occasionally. They also buy goods flown by cargo planes.
and associated infrastructure for their private travel, or public harbors for their yachts …
Surely yachts are docked in private marinas, where handsome dock fees are paid (and taxed). I do not see how public resources are consumed here.
You argument sounds like someone saying Richard Branson is a lot thinner than the obese homeless person on TSwizzle’s doorstep, so he must consume a lot less.
The argument was about consumption of public resources. When Branson eats at a restaurant, he is not consuming public resources.
And the argument was not even that somebody like Branson consumes less in absolute terms, but that he consumes fewer (and not more, as was the claim) public resources relative to how much tax he pays. If Branson pays, for example (as I do not know his income or tax burden) 1,000x as much tax as Mr. Average, do you really think he consumes more than 1,000x as many public resources than the average taxpayer?
 
I was pretty clear about my reasons for believing we need to take the wealthy especially the uber wealthy more.
Yes -- you appear to perceive them as your enemy so you'd like the government to treat them as its enemy.
Wow! Taxing someone is treating them as an enemy. There's your whole attitude in a nutshell.

And you criticize other for ad homs.
Oh for the love of god! I didn't say taxing someone is treating them as an enemy! I said taxing someone not to raise revenue but in order to hurt them -- to tax them so heavily you kill their incentive to produce more wealth and thereby reduce revenue -- is treating them as an enemy. Sanders-style 100% tax brackets and Toni-style billionaire elimination treat the uber-wealthy as an enemy. This isn't rocket science.
I don’t regard paying one’s fair share in taxes as punitive. I believe taxing in order to raise re ensue and to encourage what is good for society and discouraging what is bad for society is proper. We give tax breaks to people raising children in order to encourage people to have children. We assess penalties for corporations which pollute, form monopolies, engage in unfair labor practices and a host of other measures to discourage such behavior and to disincentivize behavior that we find harmful.

We have demonstrated over and over again that we are not willing to treat wealth y individuals the same way we treat poor individuals. If we were to treat the merely wealthy and the poor equally, that would be a big step forwards our ideal of justice for all. It would be another large step forward if we quit treating the uber wealthy as an especially privileged class who are exempt from taxes, laws, rules and regulations that the rest of us are subject to.
 
I was homeless for three months in 2021. I mean homeless, not sleeping in my car, or riding some friend's couch. Before my money ran out, it wasn't bad at all. But even when the money ran out, it was still do-able. Where I live (Mohave Desert) the weather is very forgiving in the winter time, and the coldest night got to around 40 F. As long as I stayed bundled up I was fine at night; during the day it was fine even without a jacket.
Yeah, when I'm out hiking (normally desert, but not Mohave) I always consider what would the situation be if I got stuck out there overnight. Doesn't take a lot of extra gear to be confident that I could last the night. Other than the summer heat the only conditions out there that are a possible issue is wind.
The cops here will talk to you if they see you sleeping on a bench, or on the ground, but by and large they are sympathetic and will leave you alone, as long as you aren't being a dick, basically.
Which is the general situation--the problem people have with the homeless is actually a dick problem. I'm pretty sure there are a few that live around here spending the night behind the transformers. (We have underground utilities, no poles means no transformers on poles, so they're in boxes which always have a wall on all sides not facing the street and always have a concrete pad--no mud, walled on three sides so the wind is considerably reduced.) I have never seen any problems from them, I haven't heard of any problems, I haven't heard of anyone complaining. The dick ones are another matter.
After I got my shit together and an apartment again, I missed being outside at first. I missed the fresh air and sunshine, and the hustle-bustle of other people. I met a lot of homeless people, mostly middle aged men like me. A few were truly down and out, obviously with some mental problem, or serious addiction, either meth or alcohol. But there were several who actually had a job, or SS, or Disability, and chose to live in their car, or a tent, to save all the money that would go to rent and utilities. Not having to pay rent and electric gave them more money for coffee shops, or restaurants, even clubs. Some of these guys paid for a membership at a gym so they could use the showers.
That's my understanding--car + gym membership takes care of most issues.
 
There is nothing confiscatory about paying one’s fair share.
Depends on how you define "fair share".
Do you really think "taxing [billionaires] down to size" that would result in "eliminating" them is "fair share"?
I am a firm believer in properly compensating employees and vendors. Bezos does neither. Instead he creates predatory conditions under which vendors have little choice but to agree to his terms.
They have a lot of market power, yes. Does not mean that it is not a winning scenario for vendors to have access to a sale portal with such market power.
We do absolutely subsidize Bezos’ employees if they are unable to afford basic necessities such as food and healthcare Abd housing and transportation without taxpayer funded subsidies. Same thing only much worse with Walmart.
If they did not have a job at all, they'd cost the government even more. Amazon has a lot of employees, and only some of them are the low-end warehouse employees. And I have shown that even those get paid $18-20 per hour in MCOL city like Atlanta. Of course it is impossible for any company to guarantee pay, especially for their low end employees, that completely eliminates the possibility of them being eligible for government services. That's because eligibility for these programs rises with household size. A family of five is eligible for SNAP up to ~48k. Does that mean that every job should pay at least that much? And what about family of 6? 7?
Musk obtained sweetheart non-competitive contracts —paid for by you and me—for his various satellites and launches, most of which have failed.
You are conflating at least three different things. There are a number of test flights that failed, but you don't have contracts with customers for those. Paid SpaceX launches (for both private and government clients like NASA) have been very successful, and relatively affordable.
Somehow,none carrying any ‘important’ people.
What is that supposed to mean? Afaik there have not been any deaths on SpaceX flights, important or not. And last year SpaceX managed to rescue astronauts Sunita Williams and Butch Wilmore when Boeing, the original contractor, could not.
There is nothing wrong with providing services to the government and getting paid for it.
The amount of energy and resources expended to satisfy the vanity of a few celebrities could have better been spent on basic necessities for mere mortals.
Now you have shifted to space tourism. That's more Blue Origin than SpaceX. In any case, they pay their own money for a suborbital experience. A lot of people pay a lot of money for expensive vacations. Why do some people hate it when it involves spaceflight? Did you also hate Dennis Tito when he paid $20M to Russians for a week in space in 2001?
 
That's why people like Bezos do take capital gains and pay hundreds of millions in capital gains taxes. While borrowing against stock does happen, it is not nearly as widely used as polemics suggest.
DC FPI is not exactly the most trustworthy source here, given their biases. And that page is very superficial and does not go into any detail as to how that is supposed to work in practice.
Some years ago I tried to work out the economics--didn't take very many years for it to go into the red.

However, there's one case it works for: if the stock is growing well above the margin loan rate. Note Amazon is purely about stock growth, last I knew they paid no dividends. But note that that strategy makes sense even if you don't look at the tax deferral: if you can make appreciably above the margin loan rate and are willing to take the risk it's advantageous anyway.
 
I said taxing someone not to raise revenue but in order to hurt them -- to tax them so heavily you kill their incentive to produce more wealth and thereby reduce revenue -- is treating them as an enemy. Sanders-style 100% tax brackets and Toni-style billionaire elimination treat the uber-wealthy as an enemy.
But Eisenhower’s ~91% top marginal rate didn’t seem to create a lot of enmity, or inhibit innovation, or keep the Uber wealthy from becoming even wealthier.
In fact, in that quaint era, it was considered patriotic to be able to contribute so much to the commons.
Billionaires are not the problem now, it’s the race between them that urges them to minimize any such contribution, and eliminate it entirely if possible.

The first American billionaires (JD Rockefeller, Henry Ford) had died by Eisenhower’s time. No new billionaires were created during the Eisenhower administration* and yet, that era is still widely held out as the most prosperous in American history, and was inarguably a more egalitarian society than the one that had spawned the previous billionaires.

I keep harping on that model because I think it was superior in every regard, to what’s going on now. I admit that other things have changed - most notably, all the easily extracted natural resources in America had not been tapped. But the economic stratification that the high marginal tax rate tended to mitigate, was a GOOD thing IMO.

* possible exception, JP Getty whose wealth was estimated at over 700m in 1957
 
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Question: Why are you schilling yourself for the massively wealthy? Do you think you will be one of them someday?
Question: Why are you shilling for the Bolsheviks? Do you think they will include you in the Politburo someday?
In case you haven't noticed, there's a helluva lot of Americans that are hurting. Many just one car repair from being homeless. While at the same time the right wants to take away programs that help the average person to finance huge tax cuts for the wealthy and big corp.
What's your point? Are you trying to prove you aren't shilling for Bolsheviks? I was being sarcastic. Derec wasn't shilling for the massively wealthy either.

Question 2: Do leftists have any arguments that are not, ultimately, ad hominem?
Pretty cheeky of you to accuse me of only using ad hominems when you edited out my other points that were not ad homs. Not a good look on you.
Well hey, if we're going for hyper-literalism here, let's have a look at your other points.

Income is money or value received by an individual or business in exchange for goods, services, labor, or investments. It is the total consumption and saving opportunity gained within a specified timeframe, and serves as the foundation for measuring economic growth, assigning tax burdens, and evaluating wealth. [1, 2, 3, 4] - Legal Information Institute
It was a political decision to exempt stock gains from income.
Note the verb "received". You do not receive "money or value" from an increase of an asset until you sell it or receive periodic payments such as interest and dividends.
That is completely wrong. It ignores the second sentence.
That's not an argument; that's proof by blatant assertion. The second sentence, "It is the total consumption and saving opportunity gained within a specified timeframe, and serves as the foundation for measuring economic growth, assigning tax burdens, and evaluating wealth.", was asserted without argument or evidence. Why would anyone believe such brain-damaged idiocy? If that definition were correct, then if you have a rare tissue type and consequently some oligarch in a country where it's legal offers you a million dollars for your kidney, it would mean you have a million dollars of income even if you don't sell it to him and that million dollars serves as the foundation for assigning your tax burden. That is evidently not what anyone actually means by "income".

Word definitions are itty-bitty scientific theories. But people persist in pulling them out of their asses and believing them without subjecting them to the most elementary tests.

But you are right, any taxing decisions are inherently political. It was a political decision to pass the 16th Amendment which authorized the income tax to begin with. But there is a reason why unrealized gains are generally not taxable worldwide. For one, what happens if an asset goes down in value? Do you get a tax refund?
If I win a car on a game show. I am taxed at its full sticker price as income. As soon as I drive the car off the lot it loses 25% of its value. Do I get a tax refund? No. Neither should the person in your situation.
Still not seeing an argument there. Why the bejesus should you be taxed on the full sticker price of the car? The manufacturer can slap on any sticker it pleases. If you didn't pay that much for it and the game show didn't pay the manufacturer that much for it and you can't sell it for that much, what basis is there for believing that's a measure of how much value you received?
 
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