More sexist double standards

[Metaphor]

In this particular case, according to journalists who viewed the exchange, it is certainly possible that Molitor was defending herself.

During what is apparently a contentious exchange of words, Molitor pushes Mixon away. We don't know why: there is no audio on the videotape. It is possible that she is the aggressor in pushing Mixon. It is also possible that he says something threatening to her and she pushes him away, defending herself. Mixon turns and lunges at her. Was it reasonable for her to feel his lunging was a physical threat? In other words, was she justified in slapping him to defend herself? The slap did not hit his face but rather his neck. He punches her hard enough that she drops to the floor and is unconscious and bleeding. He is 6'2, 216 lbs and extremely muscular and fit. She (if I have the right person) weighs more than 85 lbs less than he does and is 7 inches shorter. To the best of my knowledge, she is not an athlete.

The comments/tweets made by the journalists who were allowed to view the video tape is that the punch was really stunning, hard, shocking, etc.


Reading this, even if I remove gender, it is hard for me to say that the person who pushed/slapped at the other person was not justifiably trying to defend themselves. A lot would hinge on audio. There were lots of witnesses but I haven't found any testimony about what was said. The push/slapper could have been the aggressor or could have been defending themselves, as far as what we actually know. The person punching the other person seems, according to viewers of the video, to be acting far out of scale of what would be a reasonable response. Perhaps they are wrong. Perhaps she said she had a gun and would shoot him. That might be ample justification. But other wise, I cannot see how there was justification in the punch.

No-one's saying the proportion of the punch was justified. No-one.

But shoving someone, unless it's in self-defense or an accident, is both violent and an assault. Calling shoving 'not violent', calling a slap 'not violent' is doing violence to the English language.

Australia has recently seen a wave of one punch assaults that have resulted in brain damage and death. People need to stop shoving, slapping, and punching others. It doesn't matter if you're weaker than the other party.

 

[Toni]

In this particular case, according to journalists who viewed the exchange, it is certainly possible that Molitor was defending herself.

During what is apparently a contentious exchange of words, Molitor pushes Mixon away. We don't know why: there is no audio on the videotape. It is possible that she is the aggressor in pushing Mixon. It is also possible that he says something threatening to her and she pushes him away, defending herself. Mixon turns and lunges at her. Was it reasonable for her to feel his lunging was a physical threat? In other words, was she justified in slapping him to defend herself? The slap did not hit his face but rather his neck. He punches her hard enough that she drops to the floor and is unconscious and bleeding. He is 6'2, 216 lbs and extremely muscular and fit. She (if I have the right person) weighs more than 85 lbs less than he does and is 7 inches shorter. To the best of my knowledge, she is not an athlete.

The comments/tweets made by the journalists who were allowed to view the video tape is that the punch was really stunning, hard, shocking, etc.


Reading this, even if I remove gender, it is hard for me to say that the person who pushed/slapped at the other person was not justifiably trying to defend themselves. A lot would hinge on audio. There were lots of witnesses but I haven't found any testimony about what was said. The push/slapper could have been the aggressor or could have been defending themselves, as far as what we actually know. The person punching the other person seems, according to viewers of the video, to be acting far out of scale of what would be a reasonable response. Perhaps they are wrong. Perhaps she said she had a gun and would shoot him. That might be ample justification. But other wise, I cannot see how there was justification in the punch.

No-one's saying the proportion of the punch was justified. No-one.

But shoving someone, unless it's in self-defense or an accident, is both violent and an assault. Calling shoving 'not violent', calling a slap 'not violent' is doing violence to the English language.

Australia has recently seen a wave of one punch assaults that have resulted in brain damage and death. People need to stop shoving, slapping, and punching others. It doesn't matter if you're weaker than the other party.

I kinda get the impression that Derec thinks the punch was proportional and justified.

As far as pushing, shoving being violence: that is normal horseplay among friends and not 'violence.' As far as equating a smack with violence: look at football players after a game, smacking each other's butts. Context is important.

 

[credoconsolans]

Woman hits man, man defends himself by hitting her. He gets punished, she gets off scot-free.
OU football: Joe Mixon tape shows freshman running back punch female after she pushed, slapped him

Even if you think he overreacted while defending himself, the unassailable fact is still that she instigated the violence. So why wasn't she charged with assault and battery? Obviously because, in our sexist society, women are considered the more equal animals.

So...what did he say to her that instigated all of this?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

He dressed provocatively and perhaps drank too much, so it really is all his fault.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Legally, the woman has gotten off scot-free, which is wrong considering that she physically assaulted someone.

However, I'd say the multiple fractures in her face serve as more than enough punishment for her stupidity. Crude street justice.

Assuming she has no financial recourse against him I would agree.

 

[Ford]

He dressed provocatively and perhaps drank too much, so it really is all his fault.

He's guilty of nothing more than living in a twisted society where women - and black women in particular - have all the power. Perhaps he drinks because of his inability to cope with such an unfair system where men can be slapped and falsely accused of rape at the drop of a hat?

Perhaps he'd get along better in life if he adopted radical feminist ideals in exchange for sex. Still an example of how men are treated so horribly unfairly. Sex should be free, not determined at the whims of womyn!

 

[RavenSky]

I find it interesting that the OP says

Joe Mixon tape shows freshman running back punch female after she pushed, slapped him

but leaves out these parts:

Mixon looks as if he’s going to walk away, but looks like he says something as he turns. Molitor then pushes Mixon

So did he say something that caused her to push him? Probably not a justifiable reason to push him. Or did he get into her space, and that is what caused her to push him, which would be justifiable on her part.

Either way, the OP also conveniently leaves out this part, too:

Mixon reacts to the push by lunging at Molitor with a closed fist at his side. She reacts by slapping Mixon

He LUNGED at her WITH A CLOSED FIST before she hit him.

That is a very tiny, but crucial little detail Derec is leaving out of the story.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

He dressed provocatively and perhaps drank too much, so it really is all his fault.

He's guilty of nothing more than living in a twisted society where women - and black women in particular - have all the power. Perhaps he drinks because of his inability to cope with such an unfair system where men can be slapped and falsely accused of rape at the drop of a hat?

Perhaps he'd get along better in life if he adopted radical feminist ideals in exchange for sex. Still an example of how men are treated so horribly unfairly. Sex should be free, not determined at the whims of womyn!

Exactly. When you force womyn to have you be nice to them in order to get sex, you're basically turning them into prostitutes.

 

[RavenSky]

In this particular case, according to journalists who viewed the exchange, it is certainly possible that Molitor was defending herself.

During what is apparently a contentious exchange of words, Molitor pushes Mixon away. We don't know why: there is no audio on the videotape. It is possible that she is the aggressor in pushing Mixon. It is also possible that he says something threatening to her and she pushes him away, defending herself. Mixon turns and lunges at her. Was it reasonable for her to feel his lunging was a physical threat? In other words, was she justified in slapping him to defend herself? The slap did not hit his face but rather his neck. He punches her hard enough that she drops to the floor and is unconscious and bleeding. He is 6'2, 216 lbs and extremely muscular and fit. She (if I have the right person) weighs more than 85 lbs less than he does and is 7 inches shorter. To the best of my knowledge, she is not an athlete.

The comments/tweets made by the journalists who were allowed to view the video tape is that the punch was really stunning, hard, shocking, etc.


Reading this, even if I remove gender, it is hard for me to say that the person who pushed/slapped at the other person was not justifiably trying to defend themselves. A lot would hinge on audio. There were lots of witnesses but I haven't found any testimony about what was said. The push/slapper could have been the aggressor or could have been defending themselves, as far as what we actually know. The person punching the other person seems, according to viewers of the video, to be acting far out of scale of what would be a reasonable response. Perhaps they are wrong. Perhaps she said she had a gun and would shoot him. That might be ample justification. But other wise, I cannot see how there was justification in the punch.

^^^ That

 

[laughing dog]

But shoving someone, unless it's in self-defense or an accident, is both violent and an assault.

Friends do that too each other all the time.

Calling shoving 'not violent', calling a slap 'not violent' is doing violence to the English language.

No, it isn't. Neither a shove nor a slap is necessarily violent. It may be violent, but it may not.

 

[bigfield]

I find it interesting that the OP says



but leaves out these parts:

Mixon looks as if he’s going to walk away, but looks like he says something as he turns. Molitor then pushes Mixon

So did he say something that caused her to push him? Probably not a justifiable reason to push him. Or did he get into her space, and that is what caused her to push him, which would be justifiable on her part.

Either way, the OP also conveniently leaves out this part, too:

Mixon reacts to the push by lunging at Molitor with a closed fist at his side. She reacts by slapping Mixon

He LUNGED at her WITH A CLOSED FIST before she hit him.

That is a very tiny, but crucial little detail Derec is leaving out of the story.

With those details in mind, it's likely that Mixon was the one who escalated the confrontation, and the shove and slap were defensive/reactive. It doesn't justify her reaction (she should have de-escalated the confrontation instead) but it is much more understandable, and wouldn't warrant assault charges.

Mixon is lucky: had he done threatened a man of his own size and temperament, he could well be the one in hospital with a smashed face.

 

[Rhea]

But shoving someone, unless it's in self-defense or an accident, is both violent and an assault. Calling shoving 'not violent', calling a slap 'not violent' is doing violence to the English language.
.

As far as pushing, shoving being violence: that is normal horseplay among friends and not 'violence.' [...] Context is important.

I disagree with this. I think we would benefit from continuing to consider shoving and slapping to be "violence." We would benefit from that when it's a matter of a marriage wherein the abuser shoves and slaps frequently, but never outright "hits." It needs to be considered violence.

And yes, context matters. Such as the context of a much smaller person doing it in a situation where they were just menaced/threatened. But it should still be considered violence because of all the other contexts. The smaller person scenario described mitigates the violence perhaps, or even justifies it in some cases as self-defense perhaps.

But I think our civilization is better off if we continue to call it violence and call for violence to always be avoided and shunned.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But I think our civilization is better off if we continue to call it violence and call for violence to always be avoided and shunned.

Yes. And we will beat the living shit out of anyone who's against that.

 

[Derec]

So...what did he say to her that instigated all of this?

Or maybe she said something. His lawyers says that she used a racial slur when she attacked him.

 

[Metaphor]

As far as pushing, shoving being violence: that is normal horseplay among friends and not 'violence.' As far as equating a smack with violence: look at football players after a game, smacking each other's butts. Context is important.

Okay, context is important. Violence is the use of physical force intended to cause harm, or it's likely to cause harm and you're recklessly indifferent to whether it causes harm or not (e.g. if I shove someone out of the way).

So, yes, shoving and slapping are violence unless it's obviously a friendly action. Slapping someone on the face almost never is, and I cannot imagine it was intended to be in the situation described.

Or, let's talk about context again: we don't (or shouldn't) tolerate children who shove or slap another child. We'd call it wrong, whether or not you want to use the word 'violence'. (I would).

 

[Derec]

I kinda get the impression that Derec thinks the punch was proportional and justified.

I did not say it was proportional. I said self defense doesn't necessarily have to be proportional. I do however think a case can be made that his response was so disproportionate as to warrant a misdemeanor charge. What I think is definitely not ok is that she wasn't charged with something as well.

As far as pushing, shoving being violence: that is normal horseplay among friends and not 'violence.' As far as equating a smack with violence: look at football players after a game, smacking each other's butts. Context is important.

They aren't friends and they weren't horse-playing. Serious punching can be ok too, among participants in a boxing match. So yes, context is important but such context is not given here.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He LUNGED at her WITH A CLOSED FIST before she hit him.

That is a very tiny, but crucial little detail Derec is leaving out of the story.

But after she shoved him.

I can't think of anything that could have justified that. A shove isn't meaningful self-defense in this sort of situation even if somehow his words were a threat. Thus she is the aggressor. (This does not absolve him--he applied more force than the threat warranted.) I think a lot of us accept her lack of criminal punishment based on the notion that she suffered enough already. A no-punishment conviction might be good here to make it clear her actions were unacceptable, though.

 

[Metaphor]

Friends do that too each other all the time.

Do they slap each other on the face all the time, too?

I don't shove my friends unless I'm angry. When I do the shoving, I'm being violent.

No, it isn't. Neither a shove nor a slap is necessarily violent. It may be violent, but it may not.

Violence is the use of physical force intended to harm. Slapping someone on the face that you are arguing with is definitely physical force and it is definitely intended to harm the slapped person.

 

[Derec]

So did he say something that caused her to push him? Probably not a justifiable reason to push him. Or did he get into her space, and that is what caused her to push him, which would be justifiable on her part.

His lawyers said that she used a racial slur. And in any case it was her who initiated the physical confrontation, not him.

Mixon reacts to the push by lunging at Molitor with a closed fist at his side. She reacts by slapping Mixon

So he had hands balled up in fists but at his side, not raised. She slapped him. Which of those two acts is assault and battery?

He LUNGED at her WITH A CLOSED FIST before she hit him.

And after she pushed him. Besides, what do they mean by "lunged" anyway. I'd really like to see that video.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Assault can be verbal. Whether or not a shove could be considered self defense following a verbal assault, I don't know.

Without knowing exactly what transpired it's impossible to say.

But whatever started it, his response was all out of proportion. No need to put someone in the hospital over a slap. The cops made the right call.