Split Trans Issues, Split from Roe v Wade is on deck

[Politesse]

I don’t even try to imagine a hierarchy of hate and violence against groups. It’s all evil stuff. I know I’m more attuned to women’s issues because I’m female. I’m more attuned to hate against groups when I know individuals belonging to those groups.

Which is exactly what makes being a trans woman so uniquely dangerous. They are very few in number, so cis women don't see trans women's issues as their issues, even though the exact same men prey on all women. They are on the receiving end of all of society's hatred for women, without any guarantee of female solidarity to create any sense of community or safety.

Yes, we do.

I do not know a single woman who does not abhor sexual violence. Against anyone.

I'm sorry, but that's fucking bullshit. Name a single rape case, a single one, in which the rapist doesn't have female allies defending their innocence or excusing their actions or trying to shift the focus to the conduct of the victim. If we're only talking in the abstract, yes, nearly all women oppose rape. So do nearly all men. But people aren't raped by abstract principles, they are usually raped by dad. Or an uncle. Or a boss. Or a therapist. Or a teacher. Or a pastor. And that person likely has an army of men and women supporting or excusing his behavior, likely for years.

 

[Jarhyn]

I've had my genitals and butt groped against my consent a couple times.

"Why can't women..." Why can't anyone ?!?

Its far from a woman problem.

Which is what I have repeatedly been told is ‘too expensive.’

The difference is that I don't think it's too expensive. In fact, I really really want to see people forced to actually handle that expense. I WANT the economic turmoil involved. I want to see construction and inconvenience for every last damn asshole who shirked doing it for so fucking long.

I want to see piles of money thrown at achool districts with the only caveat that they use the money to update bathroom and shower facilities for privacy.

I want to see small businesses given grants for updating the buildings they own, or given tools to pay rent to escrow in lieu of their landlord fixing their shit.

I don't think it's too expensive. I will fully employ the violence of the state to make it happen.

But I guarantee you "expense" here is what is going to get people crying bloody murder over how all of the above will inconvenience them.

And to whom it may concern on the use of violence:

And I'll note, I don't think I would feel safe as a woman in a women's locker room. But it's not rape I would fear but social injury every time I showed my body in front of women who might be socially violent individuals.

And as to violent response for social attacks... This is 100% how our society is supposed to handle it according to our laws. But understanding how violence is the response to such attacks and how such attacks are violence requires actually understanding violence in an abstract way.

The thing is... Women are violent and violence can as easily be inflicted socially or "indirectly" as it can physical ones. Instead of causing someone to bleed blood, they bleed money or career or friendship, but it's still fuckibg bleeding them.

This is why the response to a verified social assault is a visit from someone just as armed with a fucking gun and badge with the right and strength to haul you down, shove you into handcuffs, and drag your ass into a cage.

I have sent these at people before, and will probably do so again.

The last time someone was so much as unrelentingly rude to me, I saw him physically dragged away, out of a vehicle, and onto the sidewalk.

Do you think that wasn't violent?

I just also think that violence should only be marginally more violent than it absolutely needs to be to be effective.

Do I need to reference another time where the intended violence was much greater to demonstrate how it always comes down to an attempt at violence, however indirect?

All slander is an attempt to get someone else to do violence of some kind and is itself attempted violence.

The response to that... Is more violence that is allowed and let happen without further response in the execution of behavioral modification attempts - which are also violent attempts to kill someone, not into a corpse but into a similar but different-in-one-way person.

 

[Toni]

Yes, Im aware and abhor sexual violence against males, trans individuals, asexual people, queer , etc. It’s despicable.

 

[Toni]

I don’t even try to imagine a hierarchy of hate and violence against groups. It’s all evil stuff. I know I’m more attuned to women’s issues because I’m female. I’m more attuned to hate against groups when I know individuals belonging to those groups.

Which is exactly what makes being a trans woman so uniquely dangerous. They are very few in number, so cis women don't see trans women's issues as their issues, even though the exact same men prey on all women. They are on the receiving end of all of society's hatred for women, without any guarantee of female solidarity to create any sense of community or safety.

Yes, we do.

I do not know a single woman who does not abhor sexual violence. Against anyone.

I'm sorry, but that's fucking bullshit. Name a single rape case, a single one, in which the rapist doesn't have female allies defending their innocence or excusing their actions or trying to shift the focus to the conduct of the victim. If we're only talking in the abstract, yes, nearly all women oppose rape. So do nearly all men. But people aren't raped by abstract principles, they are usually raped by dad. Or an uncle. Or a boss. Or a therapist. Or a teacher. Or a pastor. And that person likely has an army of men and women supporting or excusing his behavior, likely for years.

Oh, I don’t deny that there is denial. There certainly is a lot, and more when the stakes are high. Because it’s so abhorred, it is difficult to accept that someone you know, love, respect is capable.

I kept my mouth shut because I was afraid that I would not be believed. Afraid I’d lose relationships with women and family I loved and adored and needed. Afraid for the repercussions that went beyond me.

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

 

[Politesse]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences. People look at strangers and stereotypes as the "real threat", when they should be looking at the other end of the dinner table, or the town council meeting, if they really want to know who rapes and more importantly who defends rape. It's not trans girls. It just isn't. Rape is a crime of power and ego, and it is committed by those who have it. Making us feel powerless wasn't a side effect of what was done to us, it was the point. Those who have, especially, a small measure of power over others while feeling disempowered in other way. That ain't trans kids, who are at the very bottom of every hierarchy. Or the storytime lady at the library, though a parent is only exercising common sense if they stay for the story.

 

[Jarhyn]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

 

[Toni]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

Sigh.

If people don't like the fact that women are indoctrinated --and for very good reason---to fear unexpected male appearing persons who are naked in women's only spots, then maybe men can start to be better about teaching each other not to violate other people's boundaries and not to touch or leer or make remarks much sexually assault other people.

And tell us exactly HOW IN HELL WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE MOMENT BETWEEN A PERSON WHO IS TRANS AND SAFE (they are not all safe, btw) FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A THREAT? In the moment. When we are extremely vulnerable, not dressed, not expecting anything other than other women.

Quit expecting us not to react to the world around us.

Not every single problem in the world is ours to solve. Like male behavior. That's on you.

Quit attacking us and quit blaming us. We didn't start the fire

 

[Jarhyn]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

Sigh.

If people don't like the fact that women are indoctrinated --and for very good reason---to fear unexpected male appearing persons who are naked in women's only spots, then maybe men can start to be better about teaching each other not to violate other people's boundaries and not to touch or leer or make remarks much sexually assault other people.

And tell us exactly HOW IN HELL WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE MOMENT BETWEEN A PERSON WHO IS TRANS AND SAFE (they are not all safe, btw) FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A THREAT? In the moment. When we are extremely vulnerable, not dressed, not expecting anything other than other women.

Quit expecting us not to react to the world around us.

Not every single problem in the world is ours to solve. Like male behavior. That's on you.

Quit attacking us and quit blaming us. We didn't start the fire

No. There is no excuse for attacking "mannish" women. None.

You shouldn't have to differentiate between folks who are "safe" or not.

I was under the perception that the opinion on the reasonable solution to that lack-of-need was shared between us.

I am pointing out, however, that the propaganda against "insufficiently feminine" women also needs to stop.

Maybe the best way to pivot towards a strong true-feminist outcome rather than a false "MFGA" feminism, is we can just call unisex bathrooms and showers "anti-rape bathrooms" and "anti-rape shower facilities".

Then anyone who stands against the solution gets to be pro-rape. Which they are.

 

[Toni]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

Sigh.

If people don't like the fact that women are indoctrinated --and for very good reason---to fear unexpected male appearing persons who are naked in women's only spots, then maybe men can start to be better about teaching each other not to violate other people's boundaries and not to touch or leer or make remarks much sexually assault other people.

And tell us exactly HOW IN HELL WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE MOMENT BETWEEN A PERSON WHO IS TRANS AND SAFE (they are not all safe, btw) FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A THREAT? In the moment. When we are extremely vulnerable, not dressed, not expecting anything other than other women.

Quit expecting us not to react to the world around us.

Not every single problem in the world is ours to solve. Like male behavior. That's on you.

Quit attacking us and quit blaming us. We didn't start the fire

No. There is no excuse for attacking "mannish" women. None.

You shouldn't have to differentiate between folks who are "safe" or not.

I was under the perception that the opinion on the reasonable solution to that lack-of-need was shared between us.

I am pointing out, however, that the propaganda against "insufficiently feminine" women also needs to stop.

Maybe the best way to pivot towards a strong true-feminist outcome rather than a false "MFGA" feminism, is we can just call unisex bathrooms and showers "anti-rape bathrooms" and "anti-rape shower facilities".

Then anyone who stands against the solution gets to be pro-rape. Which they are.

But we’ve been told that trans people eschew unisex bathrooms because it ‘outs’ them.

Frankly sometimes it’s nice as a woman to not have to deal with men. Or to have a place that is safe and clean to breastfeed. Not all babies settle well to feed with a lot of people or noise around them. 3 of mine did. One absolutely did not.

 

[Jarhyn]

But we’ve been told that trans people eschew unisex bathrooms because it ‘outs’ them.

Hence the pivot.

In some respects, labeling them as anti-rape bathrooms specifically alleviates the problem: now, instead of the "trans" person using the unisex bathroom to avoid being outed, she can use it to avoid "being raped".

Or maybe, just maybe, the people terrified of penises for whatever reason could deign to use those rooms instead.

If there's always an alternative to what you fear, you have no excuse for the fear doing more than pushing you to the alternative.

 

[Politesse]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

Sigh.

If people don't like the fact that women are indoctrinated --and for very good reason---to fear unexpected male appearing persons who are naked in women's only spots, then maybe men can start to be better about teaching each other not to violate other people's boundaries and not to touch or leer or make remarks much sexually assault other people.

And tell us exactly HOW IN HELL WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE MOMENT BETWEEN A PERSON WHO IS TRANS AND SAFE (they are not all safe, btw) FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A THREAT? In the moment. When we are extremely vulnerable, not dressed, not expecting anything other than other women.

Quit expecting us not to react to the world around us.

Not every single problem in the world is ours to solve. Like male behavior. That's on you.

Quit attacking us and quit blaming us. We didn't start the fire

No. There is no excuse for attacking "mannish" women. None.

You shouldn't have to differentiate between folks who are "safe" or not.

I was under the perception that the opinion on the reasonable solution to that lack-of-need was shared between us.

I am pointing out, however, that the propaganda against "insufficiently feminine" women also needs to stop.

Maybe the best way to pivot towards a strong true-feminist outcome rather than a false "MFGA" feminism, is we can just call unisex bathrooms and showers "anti-rape bathrooms" and "anti-rape shower facilities".

Then anyone who stands against the solution gets to be pro-rape. Which they are.

Frankly sometimes it’s nice as a woman to not have to deal with men. Or to have a place that is safe and clean to breastfeed. Not all babies settle well to feed with a lot of people or noise around them. 3 of mine did. One absolutely did not.

Unless you're a trans girl, and seeking a place of safety gets you attacked by fellow women.

 

[Jarhyn]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

Sigh.

If people don't like the fact that women are indoctrinated --and for very good reason---to fear unexpected male appearing persons who are naked in women's only spots, then maybe men can start to be better about teaching each other not to violate other people's boundaries and not to touch or leer or make remarks much sexually assault other people.

And tell us exactly HOW IN HELL WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE MOMENT BETWEEN A PERSON WHO IS TRANS AND SAFE (they are not all safe, btw) FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A THREAT? In the moment. When we are extremely vulnerable, not dressed, not expecting anything other than other women.

Quit expecting us not to react to the world around us.

Not every single problem in the world is ours to solve. Like male behavior. That's on you.

Quit attacking us and quit blaming us. We didn't start the fire

No. There is no excuse for attacking "mannish" women. None.

You shouldn't have to differentiate between folks who are "safe" or not.

I was under the perception that the opinion on the reasonable solution to that lack-of-need was shared between us.

I am pointing out, however, that the propaganda against "insufficiently feminine" women also needs to stop.

Maybe the best way to pivot towards a strong true-feminist outcome rather than a false "MFGA" feminism, is we can just call unisex bathrooms and showers "anti-rape bathrooms" and "anti-rape shower facilities".

Then anyone who stands against the solution gets to be pro-rape. Which they are.

Frankly sometimes it’s nice as a woman to not have to deal with men. Or to have a place that is safe and clean to breastfeed. Not all babies settle well to feed with a lot of people or noise around them. 3 of mine did. One absolutely did not.

Unless you're a trans girl, and seeking a place of safety gets you attacked by fellow women.

Or just not sufficiently feminine or pure or whatever the standards of the shitheads doing the attacking.

 

[Toni]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

Sigh.

If people don't like the fact that women are indoctrinated --and for very good reason---to fear unexpected male appearing persons who are naked in women's only spots, then maybe men can start to be better about teaching each other not to violate other people's boundaries and not to touch or leer or make remarks much sexually assault other people.

And tell us exactly HOW IN HELL WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE MOMENT BETWEEN A PERSON WHO IS TRANS AND SAFE (they are not all safe, btw) FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A THREAT? In the moment. When we are extremely vulnerable, not dressed, not expecting anything other than other women.

Quit expecting us not to react to the world around us.

Not every single problem in the world is ours to solve. Like male behavior. That's on you.

Quit attacking us and quit blaming us. We didn't start the fire

No. There is no excuse for attacking "mannish" women. None.

You shouldn't have to differentiate between folks who are "safe" or not.

I was under the perception that the opinion on the reasonable solution to that lack-of-need was shared between us.

I am pointing out, however, that the propaganda against "insufficiently feminine" women also needs to stop.

Maybe the best way to pivot towards a strong true-feminist outcome rather than a false "MFGA" feminism, is we can just call unisex bathrooms and showers "anti-rape bathrooms" and "anti-rape shower facilities".

Then anyone who stands against the solution gets to be pro-rape. Which they are.

Frankly sometimes it’s nice as a woman to not have to deal with men. Or to have a place that is safe and clean to breastfeed. Not all babies settle well to feed with a lot of people or noise around them. 3 of mine did. One absolutely did not.

Unless you're a trans girl, and seeking a place of safety gets you attacked by fellow women.

Why is it the responsibility of women to ignore our fears? Which are well founded?

Why is it not the responsibility of men to quit attacking others?

If you are looking to me to find a solution, I’ve offered the best I can

 

[Toni]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

Sigh.

If people don't like the fact that women are indoctrinated --and for very good reason---to fear unexpected male appearing persons who are naked in women's only spots, then maybe men can start to be better about teaching each other not to violate other people's boundaries and not to touch or leer or make remarks much sexually assault other people.

And tell us exactly HOW IN HELL WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE MOMENT BETWEEN A PERSON WHO IS TRANS AND SAFE (they are not all safe, btw) FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A THREAT? In the moment. When we are extremely vulnerable, not dressed, not expecting anything other than other women.

Quit expecting us not to react to the world around us.

Not every single problem in the world is ours to solve. Like male behavior. That's on you.

Quit attacking us and quit blaming us. We didn't start the fire

No. There is no excuse for attacking "mannish" women. None.

You shouldn't have to differentiate between folks who are "safe" or not.

I was under the perception that the opinion on the reasonable solution to that lack-of-need was shared between us.

I am pointing out, however, that the propaganda against "insufficiently feminine" women also needs to stop.

Maybe the best way to pivot towards a strong true-feminist outcome rather than a false "MFGA" feminism, is we can just call unisex bathrooms and showers "anti-rape bathrooms" and "anti-rape shower facilities".

Then anyone who stands against the solution gets to be pro-rape. Which they are.

Frankly sometimes it’s nice as a woman to not have to deal with men. Or to have a place that is safe and clean to breastfeed. Not all babies settle well to feed with a lot of people or noise around them. 3 of mine did. One absolutely did not.

Unless you're a trans girl, and seeking a place of safety gets you attacked by fellow women.

Or just not sufficiently feminine or pure or whatever the standards of the shitheads doing the attacking.

You think that doesn’t happen to cis women? Cis straight women and girls?

It’s happened to me and I look feminine. Much worse has happened to female friends who were too good at sports, for example. I was just too good at math and science. Fir a girl, that is.

 

[Politesse]

You think that doesn’t happen to cis women? Cis straight women and girls?

Of course it does. I'm not the one pretending that trans kids are the only or most significant threat to womens' safety.

 

[Politesse]

Why is it the responsibility of women to ignore our fears? Which are well founded?

Adults are responsible for both their safety and for their actions. No one should be specially condemned nor get some special pass on account of their gender.

 

[Politesse]

Why is it not the responsibility of men to quit attacking others?

It absolutely is. I support the illegalization of sexual assault 100%, no exceptions. But a girl using a restroom stall is not committing sexual assault, just because she is trans.

 

[Politesse]

If you are looking to me to find a solution, I’ve offered the best I can

The only solution you've offered is your desire for more single use, sex-neutral stalls. I agreed that those are a good idea. They do not solve the problem of either anti-trans persecution or rape. Partly because very few parties are actually building such stalls, partly because shared bathrooms and stalls don't increase the likelihood of rape, and partly because while that inaction is happening, explicitly anti-trans rhetoric, policy, and laws grow crueler and more widespread by the day, and these do increase the likelihood of sexal assault. Saying, "your problems aren't my problems, but I would support a half-measure to solve them if someone else were proposing it" is a position that puts you squarely in line with pretty much all moderate Democrats today, very much the dominant position in the so called liberal states. How's it working out so far? Do you feel safe now, as a woman?

 

[Toni]

That doesn’t mean that any of those people did not abhor sexual violence. They just did not want to or know how to deal with the actual fact that it involved a family member/someone they knew and not a big scary black stranger.

Like... the media portrayal of trans women in bathrooms. A terrifying, hulking rapist in a bad muumuu, leering at the passersby.

Which is why I see anti-trans hysteria as the opposite of protecting women. It's making a scapegoat of innocent, scared teenage girls, while actual rapists seldom face serious consequences.

And now every woman who is large, hairy, or wears a mumu will now feel less safe going to the bathroom.

Its almost like these "women" who back such efforts are really just judgemental assholes encouraging stochastic violence against insufficiently "feminine" women.

Sigh.

If people don't like the fact that women are indoctrinated --and for very good reason---to fear unexpected male appearing persons who are naked in women's only spots, then maybe men can start to be better about teaching each other not to violate other people's boundaries and not to touch or leer or make remarks much sexually assault other people.

And tell us exactly HOW IN HELL WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE MOMENT BETWEEN A PERSON WHO IS TRANS AND SAFE (they are not all safe, btw) FROM SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY A THREAT? In the moment. When we are extremely vulnerable, not dressed, not expecting anything other than other women.

Quit expecting us not to react to the world around us.

Not every single problem in the world is ours to solve. Like male behavior. That's on you.

Quit attacking us and quit blaming us. We didn't start the fire

No. There is no excuse for attacking "mannish" women. None.

You shouldn't have to differentiate between folks who are "safe" or not.

I was under the perception that the opinion on the reasonable solution to that lack-of-need was shared between us.

I am pointing out, however, that the propaganda against "insufficiently feminine" women also needs to stop.

Maybe the best way to pivot towards a strong true-feminist outcome rather than a false "MFGA" feminism, is we can just call unisex bathrooms and showers "anti-rape bathrooms" and "anti-rape shower facilities".

Then anyone who stands against the solution gets to be pro-rape. Which they are.

Frankly sometimes it’s nice as a woman to not have to deal with men. Or to have a place that is safe and clean to breastfeed. Not all babies settle well to feed with a lot of people or noise around them. 3 of mine did. One absolutely did not.

Unless you're a trans girl, and seeking a place of safety gets you attacked by fellow women.

Why is it the responsibility of women to ignore our fears? Which are well founded?

Why is it not the responsibility of men to quit attacking others?

If you are looking to me to find a solution, I’ve offered the best I can.

I have never suggested that trans women and girls do not belong in women only spaces. I’ve pointed out that some women might have an experience based PTSD reaction to being confronted with some naked stranger with a penis in a women’s only space. They might experience panic, fear, that’s just a fact.

I’ve stated repeatedly that all people deserve to feel safe and secure especially in locker rooms, dressing rooms, restrooms, etc.

That means all persons

 

[Toni]

If you are looking to me to find a solution, I’ve offered the best I can

The only solution you've offered is your desire for more single use, sex-neutral stalls. I agreed that those are a good idea. They do not solve the problem of either anti-trans persecution or rape. Partly because very few parties are actually building such stalls, partly because shared bathrooms and stalls don't increase the likelihood of rape, and partly because while that inaction is happening, explicitly anti-trans rhetoric, policy, and laws grow crueler and more widespread by the day, and these do increase the likelihood of sexal assault. Saying, "your problems aren't my problems, but I would support a half-measure to solve them if someone else were proposing it" is a position that puts you squarely in line with pretty much all moderate Democrats today, very much the dominant position in the so called liberal states. How's it working out so far? Do you feel safe now, as a woman?

Do you feel safe?

Your suggestion is that cis females just get over it and to accept the lack of privacy …because it botany bother you personally. Or most men.

I know that women’s feelings and needs do not matter to men. That is exactly why some women want to have women’s only spaces

Having everything be all open to everyone with no privacy stalls will force women to choose between violating their own boundaries or staying home.

All gender no privacy facilities will not reduce instances of rape or increase security for trans people.