• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

The Remarkable Progress of Renewable Energy

Heat pump sales rise 17% across Europe in Q1 as energy prices surge – pv magazine International - Residential heat pump sales increased 17% across 11 European countries in the first quarter of 2026, following a sharp rise in gas and oil prices after Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz in March, says the European Heat Pump Association (EHPA).

Heat pumps are good for electric heating.

Solar panels reduce thermal stress in dairy barns during critical afternoon hours – pv magazine International - A study from China shows rooftop PV systems on dairy barns can significantly reduce roof heat flux and improve indoor thermal conditions. Field measurements and simulations found up to a 2.3 C reduction in indoor temperature during peak afternoon heat stress periods.

From solar panels being extra insulation.
 
Solar panels reduce thermal stress in dairy barns during critical afternoon hours – pv magazine International - A study from China shows rooftop PV systems on dairy barns can significantly reduce roof heat flux and improve indoor thermal conditions. Field measurements and simulations found up to a 2.3 C reduction in indoor temperature during peak afternoon heat stress periods.

From solar panels being extra insulation.
Not only insulation, but they absorb some of the incoming energy, not merely slow it's passage.

But, don't worry, they're making sure it doesn't work:

 
Team Trump keeps using tax dollars to scuttle renewable energy projects
In March, the Republican administration announced it had agreed to pay a foreign company almost $1 billion in American taxpayer money to abandon two wind farm projects that would have produced enough electricity to power more than 1.3 million homes and businesses across New York, New Jersey and North Carolina.

...
In April, it happened again, when the Republican administration announced plans to pay energy companies nearly $900 million to abandon plans for two offshore wind farms.

...
The Trump administration said Wednesday it’s buying back another energy company’s U.S. offshore wind leases for four more wind projects, as it seeks to discourage the expansion of wind energy in favor of fossil fuels.

The latest deal brings the total amount spent on these agreements to nearly $2.6 billion.

This latest move, which came with a $765 million price tag, affects plans for planned projects off the coasts of New York, California and Maine.
Instead building natural-gas and geothermal projects.
 
Team Trump keeps using tax dollars to scuttle renewable energy projects
In March, the Republican administration announced it had agreed to pay a foreign company almost $1 billion in American taxpayer money to abandon two wind farm projects that would have produced enough electricity to power more than 1.3 million homes and businesses across New York, New Jersey and North Carolina.

...
In April, it happened again, when the Republican administration announced plans to pay energy companies nearly $900 million to abandon plans for two offshore wind farms.

...
The Trump administration said Wednesday it’s buying back another energy company’s U.S. offshore wind leases for four more wind projects, as it seeks to discourage the expansion of wind energy in favor of fossil fuels.

The latest deal brings the total amount spent on these agreements to nearly $2.6 billion.

This latest move, which came with a $765 million price tag, affects plans for planned projects off the coasts of New York, California and Maine.
Instead building natural-gas and geothermal projects.

Yea, this is why we're going to start dramatically falling behind the Chinese. They make long term decisions based on reason. We make short term decisions based on satisfying crazy people on the fringe to keep their vote.
 
Trump admin abandons fight against wind energy as clean energy output surges
The Trump administration has abandoned its effort to halt wind energy projects across the United States and dropped its challenge to the court ruling that tossed President Donald Trump’s order freezing federal permitting and leasing for wind projects. States that challenged the order hailed the development as one of the most significant legal victories against the Trump White House’s campaign against the energy transition.

...
Monday’s decision affirms the December 8 ruling by US District Court Judge Patti Saris, which concluded that Trump’s January 2025 executive order was unlawful, finding the sweeping ban on wind projects was “arbitrary and capricious” and exceeded the president’s authority.

...
This latest victory in a string of legal setbacks for the administration comes at a time when clean energy production continues to surge despite a slew of policy, permitting, and procedural hurdles imposed by the White House.

According to a recent report from the nonprofit Environmental Defense Fund and Atlas Public Policy, a record 79.7 GW of clean power is projected to come online in the US in 2026, even as roughly 8 GW of clean energy projects were canceled in the first quarter of the year.

The project pipeline remains strong, the report found, with 222 GW of clean energy capacity planned or under construction nationwide as part of 693 GW of power announced through the first quarter. Developers have announced plans to invest an estimated $377 billion in new projects through 2031, the report said in its key findings.

...
On June 6, the US District Court for the District of Columbia tossed an August 2025 Treasury rule that made it difficult for wind and solar projects to qualify for federal tax credits. The change eliminated the longstanding practice whereby developers locked in tax credits by showing that 5 percent or more of a project’s total cost had been spent. Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly ruled that the administration had not given a sound reason for the change and sent the rule back to the IRS to reconsider.
Noting
AG Campbell Secures Final Victory As Court Dismisses Trump Administration's Appeal In Case Over Federal Offshore Wind Permitting Pause | Mass.gov
Massachusetts Attorney General Andrea Joy Campbell and a coalition of 18 attorneys general today celebrated the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit’s dismissal of the Trump Administration’s appeal of the states’ victory in their lawsuit challenging the federal government’s unlawful order to freeze all federal permitting for wind energy projects.

...
On January 20, President Trump issued a Presidential Memorandum that, among other things, indefinitely froze all federal approvals needed for the development of wind energy projects pending federal review. Pursuant to this directive, federal agencies stopped all permitting and approval activities. In May, the coalition filed a lawsuit challenging those actions and in December, a federal judge in the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts vacated those actions, ruling that they were arbitrary and capricious and contrary to law. The federal government appealed that ruling but subsequently decided to drop that appeal. Today, the Court entered a judgement dismissing the appeal and cementing the states’ victory.
Nice to see some good news about renewable energy.
 
Bill to Allow Plug-In Solar Panels Signed Into Law
Plug-in solar is common in Europe. For example, in Germany, approximately 4 million households have installed plug-in solar. With this law, Colorado joins Utah in becoming early adopters of safe, reliable, plug-in solar in the United States.
Something like half of US states states are now working on legislation for allowing such systems.

The Rise of Plug-In Solar: How States Can Reduce Costs and Streamline Clean Energy Adoption | National Caucus of Environmental Legislators
Plug-in Solar systems are small panels that connect to a standard wall outlet. They require no professional installation, no permits, and no utility agreements. The systems reduce how much electricity a home draws from the grid, thereby lowering a household’s bill. Balcony solar systems are already popular internationally, with over one million registered in Germany alone, where they generate approximately 700 megawatts of power.
Maine also passed a law allowing such systems: Maine Plug-In Solar Law (LD 1730): What It Means
That's the idea!
 
China culturally does not have our hyper sense of the individual.
 
Bill to Allow Plug-In Solar Panels Signed Into Law
Plug-in solar is common in Europe. For example, in Germany, approximately 4 million households have installed plug-in solar. With this law, Colorado joins Utah in becoming early adopters of safe, reliable, plug-in solar in the United States.
Something like half of US states states are now working on legislation for allowing such systems.

The Rise of Plug-In Solar: How States Can Reduce Costs and Streamline Clean Energy Adoption | National Caucus of Environmental Legislators
Plug-in Solar systems are small panels that connect to a standard wall outlet. They require no professional installation, no permits, and no utility agreements. The systems reduce how much electricity a home draws from the grid, thereby lowering a household’s bill. Balcony solar systems are already popular internationally, with over one million registered in Germany alone, where they generate approximately 700 megawatts of power.
Maine also passed a law allowing such systems: Maine Plug-In Solar Law (LD 1730): What It Means
That's the idea!
I'm seeing them on eBay. Considering trying out a set.
 
Bill to Allow Plug-In Solar Panels Signed Into Law
Plug-in solar is common in Europe. For example, in Germany, approximately 4 million households have installed plug-in solar. With this law, Colorado joins Utah in becoming early adopters of safe, reliable, plug-in solar in the United States.
Something like half of US states states are now working on legislation for allowing such systems.

The Rise of Plug-In Solar: How States Can Reduce Costs and Streamline Clean Energy Adoption | National Caucus of Environmental Legislators
Plug-in Solar systems are small panels that connect to a standard wall outlet. They require no professional installation, no permits, and no utility agreements. The systems reduce how much electricity a home draws from the grid, thereby lowering a household’s bill. Balcony solar systems are already popular internationally, with over one million registered in Germany alone, where they generate approximately 700 megawatts of power.
Maine also passed a law allowing such systems: Maine Plug-In Solar Law (LD 1730): What It Means
That's the idea!
I'm seeing them on eBay. Considering trying out a set.
Sounds dangerous to me.

When a solar power system is installed here, the installer has to place a sticker on the meter, so that any electrician working in the building can see that turning off the main switch there is not adequate to ensure that the system is no longer at mains voltage.

A 'plug-in' solar panel has no such protections - and presumably also has a live "prong" on the plug when it is unplugged, which is another big no-no.
 
China culturally does not have our hyper sense of the individual.
Really? You should see the old Chinese ladies pushing their way onto a crowded bus at Sunnybank.

If they lack the sense of the individual, they hide that fact extremely well.
You would not catch me standing in the way of any old lady in Sunnybank.
 
Bill to Allow Plug-In Solar Panels Signed Into Law
Plug-in solar is common in Europe. For example, in Germany, approximately 4 million households have installed plug-in solar. With this law, Colorado joins Utah in becoming early adopters of safe, reliable, plug-in solar in the United States.
Something like half of US states states are now working on legislation for allowing such systems.

The Rise of Plug-In Solar: How States Can Reduce Costs and Streamline Clean Energy Adoption | National Caucus of Environmental Legislators
Plug-in Solar systems are small panels that connect to a standard wall outlet. They require no professional installation, no permits, and no utility agreements. The systems reduce how much electricity a home draws from the grid, thereby lowering a household’s bill. Balcony solar systems are already popular internationally, with over one million registered in Germany alone, where they generate approximately 700 megawatts of power.
Maine also passed a law allowing such systems: Maine Plug-In Solar Law (LD 1730): What It Means
That's the idea!
I'm seeing them on eBay. Considering trying out a set.
Sounds interesting. Here's a typical one (link below). Not clear how its supposed to be used, though. Are you supposed to leave your outlet power on (making this a power source in parallel with your grid power), or do you turn off the circuit breaker at the panel for that outlet and now that circuit is powered solely by the solar power kit? Or either? As far as it being a money saver, though, its going to take a long time to recover your costs, given this one is over $1300, and its only generating 900 watts (about half of a 15 amp breaker).

Plug-in to save your bill | Plug & play grid-tie solar power kit | power saving
 
Bill to Allow Plug-In Solar Panels Signed Into Law
Plug-in solar is common in Europe. For example, in Germany, approximately 4 million households have installed plug-in solar. With this law, Colorado joins Utah in becoming early adopters of safe, reliable, plug-in solar in the United States.
Something like half of US states states are now working on legislation for allowing such systems.

The Rise of Plug-In Solar: How States Can Reduce Costs and Streamline Clean Energy Adoption | National Caucus of Environmental Legislators
Plug-in Solar systems are small panels that connect to a standard wall outlet. They require no professional installation, no permits, and no utility agreements. The systems reduce how much electricity a home draws from the grid, thereby lowering a household’s bill. Balcony solar systems are already popular internationally, with over one million registered in Germany alone, where they generate approximately 700 megawatts of power.
Maine also passed a law allowing such systems: Maine Plug-In Solar Law (LD 1730): What It Means
That's the idea!
I'm seeing them on eBay. Considering trying out a set.
Sounds interesting. Here's a typical one (link below). Not clear how its supposed to be used, though. Are you supposed to leave your outlet power on (making this a power source in parallel with your grid power), or do you turn off the circuit breaker at the panel for that outlet and now that circuit is powered solely by the solar power kit? Or either? As far as it being a money saver, though, its going to take a long time to recover your costs, given this one is over $1300, and its only generating 900 watts (about half of a 15 amp breaker).

Plug-in to save your bill | Plug & play grid-tie solar power kit | power saving
Saving money using solar is a bit... short-sighted. The cost savings come in when you don't already have distributed electricity lines to your home. That costs a good amount of money to build out. If it is already built out, then you aren't saving much money. Plug-in solar sounds a lot like those new indoor fans that cool off your home for much less, as long as you don't ask what the volume of air it processes is.

In Ohio, half of my bill seems to be a bunch of microtransaction riders.
 
Bill to Allow Plug-In Solar Panels Signed Into Law
Plug-in solar is common in Europe. For example, in Germany, approximately 4 million households have installed plug-in solar. With this law, Colorado joins Utah in becoming early adopters of safe, reliable, plug-in solar in the United States.
Something like half of US states states are now working on legislation for allowing such systems.

The Rise of Plug-In Solar: How States Can Reduce Costs and Streamline Clean Energy Adoption | National Caucus of Environmental Legislators
Plug-in Solar systems are small panels that connect to a standard wall outlet. They require no professional installation, no permits, and no utility agreements. The systems reduce how much electricity a home draws from the grid, thereby lowering a household’s bill. Balcony solar systems are already popular internationally, with over one million registered in Germany alone, where they generate approximately 700 megawatts of power.
Maine also passed a law allowing such systems: Maine Plug-In Solar Law (LD 1730): What It Means
That's the idea!
I'm seeing them on eBay. Considering trying out a set.
Sounds interesting. Here's a typical one (link below). Not clear how its supposed to be used, though. Are you supposed to leave your outlet power on (making this a power source in parallel with your grid power), or do you turn off the circuit breaker at the panel for that outlet and now that circuit is powered solely by the solar power kit? Or either? As far as it being a money saver, though, its going to take a long time to recover your costs, given this one is over $1300, and its only generating 900 watts (about half of a 15 amp breaker).

Plug-in to save your bill | Plug & play grid-tie solar power kit | power saving
Saving money using solar is a bit... short-sighted. The cost savings come in when you don't already have distributed electricity lines to your home. That costs a good amount of money to build out. If it is already built out, then you aren't saving much money. Plug-in solar sounds a lot like those new indoor fans that cool off your home for much less, as long as you don't ask what the volume of air it processes is.

In Ohio, half of my bill seems to be a bunch of microtransaction riders.
Right. The ad shows it connected to a home in an urban area, and says its purpose is to save on your electric bill. Its doubtful you will have recovered your cost by the end of the solar panel lifetime, though. It also says that it will shut off automatically in the event of a power outage (for safety reasons), so its of no value when you need it most. I was also thinking it would be useful for a detached, garage/workshop/methlab but it sounds like it won't work for an off-grid, unpowered building. :shrug: Soooooo, nevermind I guess??!
 
Bill to Allow Plug-In Solar Panels Signed Into Law
Plug-in solar is common in Europe. For example, in Germany, approximately 4 million households have installed plug-in solar. With this law, Colorado joins Utah in becoming early adopters of safe, reliable, plug-in solar in the United States.
Something like half of US states states are now working on legislation for allowing such systems.

The Rise of Plug-In Solar: How States Can Reduce Costs and Streamline Clean Energy Adoption | National Caucus of Environmental Legislators
Plug-in Solar systems are small panels that connect to a standard wall outlet. They require no professional installation, no permits, and no utility agreements. The systems reduce how much electricity a home draws from the grid, thereby lowering a household’s bill. Balcony solar systems are already popular internationally, with over one million registered in Germany alone, where they generate approximately 700 megawatts of power.
Maine also passed a law allowing such systems: Maine Plug-In Solar Law (LD 1730): What It Means
That's the idea!
I'm seeing them on eBay. Considering trying out a set.
Sounds dangerous to me.

When a solar power system is installed here, the installer has to place a sticker on the meter, so that any electrician working in the building can see that turning off the main switch there is not adequate to ensure that the system is no longer at mains voltage.

A 'plug-in' solar panel has no such protections - and presumably also has a live "prong" on the plug when it is unplugged, which is another big no-no.
The way it's supposed to work is safe--the panel must use the line signal to seed it's inverter. No line power coming in, no source for the 60hz cycle, no power out. The plug isn't hot just because the panel is in the sun. Same setup for whole-house units--the inverter is driven by the line and can't put out power without it. You want your panels to work in an outage, you have to install a transfer switch and at least some battery capacity.

Would I trust a Chinesium solar panel to actually follow this spec? No.
 
I'm seeing them on eBay. Considering trying out a set.
Sounds interesting. Here's a typical one (link below). Not clear how its supposed to be used, though. Are you supposed to leave your outlet power on (making this a power source in parallel with your grid power), or do you turn off the circuit breaker at the panel for that outlet and now that circuit is powered solely by the solar power kit? Or either? As far as it being a money saver, though, its going to take a long time to recover your costs, given this one is over $1300, and its only generating 900 watts (about half of a 15 amp breaker).

Plug-in to save your bill | Plug & play grid-tie solar power kit | power saving
You leave the line on. It syncs itself to the grid, pushes power onto your wiring.
 
Sounds interesting. Here's a typical one (link below). Not clear how its supposed to be used, though. Are you supposed to leave your outlet power on (making this a power source in parallel with your grid power), or do you turn off the circuit breaker at the panel for that outlet and now that circuit is powered solely by the solar power kit? Or either? As far as it being a money saver, though, its going to take a long time to recover your costs, given this one is over $1300, and its only generating 900 watts (about half of a 15 amp breaker).

Plug-in to save your bill | Plug & play grid-tie solar power kit | power saving
Saving money using solar is a bit... short-sighted. The cost savings come in when you don't already have distributed electricity lines to your home. That costs a good amount of money to build out. If it is already built out, then you aren't saving much money. Plug-in solar sounds a lot like those new indoor fans that cool off your home for much less, as long as you don't ask what the volume of air it processes is.

In Ohio, half of my bill seems to be a bunch of microtransaction riders.
Not insane here.

Local irradiance gives 26.25% efficiency. (Remember where I live! Expect lower numbers!)

It's hard to tell from that listing but it looks like 4 x 190W panels for a nameplate 760W, averaging 199.5W over time given local conditions. Local power is 14 cents/kWh. Thus 2.793 cents/hour = 67.032 cents/day = $244.6668/yr. Payback is 5.579 years. This does not include any losses in the inverter--I'm not sure what the listing is saying, looks like maybe 4% loss.

This has a gotcha, though. Solar is unreliable power, laws making it equivalent to reliable power mess with the market. Our local energy company is trying to get a measure through the utility commission that allows them to charge a certain amount for the peak 15 minutes in the day. No word yet on how big it will be, but I expect it will bite the solar people. Whatever the local rules currently say, expect the utilities to fight back in some fashion if solar becomes widespread. The status quo of drawing from the grid when the sun isn't shining is not sustainable at current rates.
 
Last edited:
Right. The ad shows it connected to a home in an urban area, and says its purpose is to save on your electric bill. Its doubtful you will have recovered your cost by the end of the solar panel lifetime, though. It also says that it will shut off automatically in the event of a power outage (for safety reasons), so its of no value when you need it most. I was also thinking it would be useful for a detached, garage/workshop/methlab but it sounds like it won't work for an off-grid, unpowered building. :shrug: Soooooo, nevermind I guess??!
Very much won't work off grid. If it did--in the electrical world it's known as a suicide plug.

And it's not very practical even if you have an off-grid inverter. You need a bit of battery buffer. Especially with something like a workshop where you have tools with motors that draw high startup current.
 
Bill to Allow Plug-In Solar Panels Signed Into Law
Plug-in solar is common in Europe. For example, in Germany, approximately 4 million households have installed plug-in solar. With this law, Colorado joins Utah in becoming early adopters of safe, reliable, plug-in solar in the United States.
Something like half of US states states are now working on legislation for allowing such systems.

The Rise of Plug-In Solar: How States Can Reduce Costs and Streamline Clean Energy Adoption | National Caucus of Environmental Legislators
Plug-in Solar systems are small panels that connect to a standard wall outlet. They require no professional installation, no permits, and no utility agreements. The systems reduce how much electricity a home draws from the grid, thereby lowering a household’s bill. Balcony solar systems are already popular internationally, with over one million registered in Germany alone, where they generate approximately 700 megawatts of power.
Maine also passed a law allowing such systems: Maine Plug-In Solar Law (LD 1730): What It Means
That's the idea!
I'm seeing them on eBay. Considering trying out a set.
Sounds interesting. Here's a typical one (link below). Not clear how its supposed to be used, though. Are you supposed to leave your outlet power on (making this a power source in parallel with your grid power), or do you turn off the circuit breaker at the panel for that outlet and now that circuit is powered solely by the solar power kit? Or either? As far as it being a money saver, though, its going to take a long time to recover your costs, given this one is over $1300, and its only generating 900 watts (about half of a 15 amp breaker).

Plug-in to save your bill | Plug & play grid-tie solar power kit | power saving
Saving money using solar is a bit... short-sighted. The cost savings come in when you don't already have distributed electricity lines to your home. That costs a good amount of money to build out. If it is already built out, then you aren't saving much money. Plug-in solar sounds a lot like those new indoor fans that cool off your home for much less, as long as you don't ask what the volume of air it processes is.

In Ohio, half of my bill seems to be a bunch of microtransaction riders.
Right. The ad shows it connected to a home in an urban area, and says its purpose is to save on your electric bill. Its doubtful you will have recovered your cost by the end of the solar panel lifetime, though. It also says that it will shut off automatically in the event of a power outage (for safety reasons), so its of no value when you need it most.
At less than one circuit breaker worth of power, it wouldn't do squat when you needed it most. The thing is merely meant to provide supplemental power to reduce you electricity usage.

Of course, I despise electricity because it is 105% magic and -5% science. I hated E-Systems in college.

So my question is this, is the panel actually supplying electricity to the house? There is voltage coming from the Panel. Is this similar to putting a water tank on your house to save money on water use, when all you are doing is adding pressure, not water. I could be absolutely wrong.
 
Back
Top Bottom