Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Derec]

Ethnic cleansing in the West Bank was documented by a UN report. Supported by video and reporting from the West Bank.

Reporting by who? UN is hopelessly biased against Israel.

Israel has long been condemning Palestinian land, bulldogging it, and issuing building permission to Jews.

West Bank is a complex issue because of historical significance to Israel. What is (pretty antiseptically) called "West Bank" today is really the historic areas of Judea and Samaria which formed the core lands of the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah.

Some time back Israel seized farmland in Gaza on the birder. When questioned Netanyahu said it was just a small piece of land.

[citation needed] When exactly was that? How much land? Was it just a buffer zone seized for security reasons because of incessent attacks against Israel from Gaza.
Of course, things now, after the 10/7 attack, are far worse for Gaza. Some ⅔ of the territory are under IDF control, which is quite a buffer zone, but necessary until Hamas is disarmed.

IDF is also busy demolishing tunnels in the area it controls.
IDF says it razed 5 Hamas tunnels in Israeli-held parts of Gaza
None of this would be necessary had Gazans decided to live in peace after Israel's 2005 withdrawal. Instead, they continued to attack Israel pretty much non stop for almost 20 years culminating in the 10/7 attack and its aftermath.

Netanyahu has aid publicly what was Israel 2000 years ago Jews have a god given right to today.
That is Zionism.

Zionism just means that Jews should have their own country. Why is it ok for Arabs to have a dozen states or so, but so wrong for Jews to have one single state?
And I do not know about "god given", but Israel definitely has a historical connection to the land. Much more than Arabs, as even this Hamas leader admits.

If Palestinians were native to the land, and not settler colonists, they would have a native name for themselves, instead of using a Graeco-Roman colonial name ("Palestinian") that inlcudes a sound they do not even have in their language.

In fact, before the modern State of Israel was founded, the last time that land was governed locally (and not part of a foreign empire) was the Hasmonean Kingdom of Israel.

When Israel prevailed in the first war Arabs outside the self declared boundary were not permuted to return and lost their land without compensation. Jews got primer farm and industrial land for free.

And many Jews were expelled from Arab lands and settled in Israel. What's wrong with Arabs settling in the many Arab states that exist? They could have been easily absorbed into these societies instead of being held in so-called "refugee camps" in perpetuity.

I don;t think there has been any agreement on borders, so wherever Israel says is the border of Israel is the border of Israel.

No. The so-called Green Line is just the armistice line from 1949. The final borders should be negotiated, if there is ever a Palestinian government that wants to renounce terrorism and negotiate in good faith. Starting an Intifada for not getting your way, as happened in 2001, is certainly not negotiating in good faith.

If Palestinians had a state recognized internationally, they would have standing to sue Israel for damages.

Israel should also sue for all the damages, including loss of life, of the decades of Palestinian terrorist attacks.

 

[steve_bank]

If you want proof watch and read global reporting. Of course you can dismiss he UN and any media outlet you please.

Armed Jewish vigilantes pushing Palestinians off their land while the Israeli army watches had been widely reported. In the link recently a congressman witnessed the aftermath of Jewish vigilantes destroying a Palestinian villeinage.


From the start of the war Israel has been systematically destroying Gaza and herding Palestinians into smaller areas. Preventing food from getting in.

In rte West Bank for decades Jewish colonization has pushed Palestinians into smaller isolated enclaves.

Zionism has been he policy of the Netanyahu long running governmntt. From his own mouth Jews have a gd given biblical right to the land.

 

[Arctish]

Ethnic cleansing in the West Bank was documented by a UN report. Supported by video and reporting from the West Bank.

Reporting by who? UN is hopelessly biased against Israel.

Israel has long been condemning Palestinian land, bulldogging it, and issuing building permission to Jews.

West Bank is a complex issue because of historical significance to Israel. What is (pretty antiseptically) called "West Bank" today is really the historic areas of Judea and Samaria which formed the core lands of the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah.

Samaritans were seen as "other" by the Jews of that time. Their religious beliefs are distinctly different:

Samaritans recognize only the Samaritan Torah as sacred scripture, rejecting most of the later Jewish canon as well as rabbinic tradition, and their central theological distinction from Judaism is the belief that Mount Gerizim, not the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, is God's chosen sanctuary. Their religion is centered on the hereditary high priesthood, strict observance of biblical law and festivals, and pilgrimages to Mount Gerizim, most famously the Passover sacrifice.

If you're going to use history to assert a claim by the State of Israel on that part of Palestine the least you can do is admit the Samaritans were subjugated by the Jews of the Kingdom of Judah who did not see them as equals or respect their religious beliefs.

In that regard, not much has changed.

 

[steve_bank]

Look at a regional map and look up the dimensions of the Gaza Strip.

Then look at the tonnage of high explosives dropped on that small area.

Compare to the HE tonnage dropped on Europe by the Brits and Americans on Europe in WWII.

For Israel it is shooing fish in a barrel.

 

[TomC]

Look at a regional map and look up the dimensions of the Gaza Strip.

Then look at the tonnage of high explosives dropped on that small area.

Compare to the HE tonnage dropped on Europe by the Brits and Americans on Europe in WWII.

For Israel it is shooing fish in a barrel.

Take a look at regional map and look up the dimensions of the Gazans military installations. Look at where Gazans put their military infrastructure. Ask yourself, "why do they want a missile launching platform on top of a hospital? Why did they attack Israel?"
The answers aren't difficult.
Tom

ETA ~Which would have been more beneficial to Gazans, power and desalinization plants or massive military apparatus?~

 

[steve_bank]

Gaza is shooting fish in a barrel. The more I think about it the more grotesque it seems.

Why attack Israel? At this point are you really this ignorant?

Palestine Jews declared an independent state taking land owned by Arabs. Arabs formed a coalition and lost the war. Israel denied right of return to non Jews outside the declared boundaries of Israel, they lost land without compensation.

West Bank Pa;intestines were long pushed off their land for Jewish colonization.

As I said before armed mutant Jews opposed te Brits as Hamas opposes Israel.

Israel is not an innocent victim.

 

[TomC]

Gaza is shooting fish in a barrel. The more I think about it the more grotesque it seems.

I agree.
It's called "human shields" and it's grotesque to be charitable about it.
Tom

 

[Arctish]

Look at a regional map and look up the dimensions of the Gaza Strip.

Then look at the tonnage of high explosives dropped on that small area.

Compare to the HE tonnage dropped on Europe by the Brits and Americans on Europe in WWII.

For Israel it is shooing fish in a barrel.

Take a look at regional map and look up the dimensions of the Gazans military installations. Look at where Gazans put their military infrastructure. Ask yourself, "why do they want a missile launching platform on top of a hospital? Why did they attack Israel?"
The answers aren't difficult.
Tom

ETA ~Which would have been more beneficial to Gazans, power and desalinization plants or massive military apparatus?~

Is there any evidence of missile launching platforms on the top of a hospital?

I have seen reports of rockets being fired from the vicinity of hospitals and a report of one falling short of its target and hitting a hospital parking lot, but the reports that Hamas built missile launching pads on top of hospitals and the IDF allowed it, or at the very least failed to notice it, seems ludicrous.

 

[laughing dog]

Look at a regional map and look up the dimensions of the Gaza Strip.

Then look at the tonnage of high explosives dropped on that small area.

Compare to the HE tonnage dropped on Europe by the Brits and Americans on Europe in WWII.

For Israel it is shooing fish in a barrel.

Take a look at regional map and look up the dimensions of the Gazans military installations. Look at where Gazans put their military infrastructure. Ask yourself, "why do they want a missile launching platform on top of a hospital? Why did they attack Israel?"
The answers aren't difficult.
Tom

ETA ~Which would have been more beneficial to Gazans, power and desalinization plants or massive military apparatus?~

Is there any evidence of missile launching platforms on the top of a hospital?

I have seen reports of rockets being fired from the vicinity of hospitals and a report of one falling short of its target and hitting a hospital parking lot, but the reports that Hamas built missile launching pads on top of hospitals and the IDF allowed it, or at the very least failed to notice it, seems ludicrous.

You forget rooftops are dual use!!!!!

 

[Arctish]

Tom

ETA ~Which would have been more beneficial to Gazans, power and desalinization plants or massive military apparatus?~

Do you have any idea how often Israel fired on the power plant, destroying equipment and setting fuel tanks on fire?

Do you have any idea how difficult it is for Gaza to import the diesel necessary to run generators?

Do you have any idea how vulnerable to attack a desalinization plant is? Gaza has more than 150 of them but they need fuel and electricity to operate, and they have become targets just like the rest of Gaza's infrastructure.

I think even you would be ready to take up a shotgun if your neighbors kept cutting off your electricity and water supply. I know the people in my town would.

 

[steve_bank]

Before the war imports were s3verly restricted. Anything potentially of use to Hamas was canned In one case concrete. Sea and land blockade.

Fish in a barrel.

AI Overview
Yes, there is a sea embargo on the Gaza Strip. Israel has enforced a strict naval blockade on the territory for nearly two decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

During te war hereinafter aide blocked because some of it might go to Hamas.

 

[TomC]

I think even you would be ready to take up a shotgun if your neighbors kept cutting off your electricity and water supply. I know the people in my town would.

If the neighbors had been killing my kids for years and were currently holding a bunch hostage, I would consider shooting up their water and electricity a peaceful response.

I wouldn't give a whit about what their friends and relatives thought about it either. Especially since they were unwilling to help rescue the victims.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I think even you would be ready to take up a shotgun if your neighbors kept cutting off your electricity and water supply. I know the people in my town would.

If the neighbors had been killing my kids for years and were currently holding a bunch hostage, I would consider shooting up their water and electricity a peaceful response.

I wouldn't give a whit about what their friends and relatives thought about it either. Especially since they were unwilling to help rescue the victims.
Tom

You’d fit in well with Hamas and Bebe.

 

[TomC]

I think even you would be ready to take up a shotgun if your neighbors kept cutting off your electricity and water supply. I know the people in my town would.

If the neighbors had been killing my kids for years and were currently holding a bunch hostage, I would consider shooting up their water and electricity a peaceful response.

I wouldn't give a whit about what their friends and relatives thought about it either. Especially since they were unwilling to help rescue the victims.
Tom

You’d fit in well with Hamas and Bebe.

As opposed to, "You are wrong and here is why."
Sorry but a lot of people seem determined to justify murder and kidnapping because Gazans are unhappy with the results of Palestinian leadership.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I think even you would be ready to take up a shotgun if your neighbors kept cutting off your electricity and water supply. I know the people in my town would.

If the neighbors had been killing my kids for years and were currently holding a bunch hostage, I would consider shooting up their water and electricity a peaceful response.

I wouldn't give a whit about what their friends and relatives thought about it either. Especially since they were unwilling to help rescue the victims.
Tom

You’d fit in well with Hamas and Bebe.

As opposed to, "You are wrong and here is why."

I didn't say you were wrong. I know this is hard for you, but please try to focus. I said you'd fit in well with either crowd. Both Hamas and the current gov't of Israel are fine with killing their neighbors. Hamas kidnapped Israeli citizens. The gov't of Israel imprisons Palestinians without charges (which is effective kidnapping).

Look, if that is the way you feel, then that is the way you feel. I happen to think it is pretty barbaric, but that's my problem, not yours.

Have a nice day.

 

[Derec]

The gov't of Israel imprisons Palestinians without charges (which is effective kidnapping).

The "administrative detention" is based on a law that was left over from the British Mandate. The detention still needs to be authorized by a judge and is reviewed by a judge every six months.

And those held in administrative detention are affiliated with terrorist groups and often have previously been convicted of terrorism charges. So it's not at all akin to Hamas and allied groups grabbing random civilians from a music festival and from their homes, including small children.

Israelis brace to learn the fate of Hamas' youngest hostage, taken captive as a baby

 

[laughing dog]

The gov't of Israel imprisons Palestinians without charges (which is effective kidnapping).

The "administrative detention" is based on a law that was left over from the British Mandate. The detention still needs to be authorized by a judge and is reviewed by a judge every six months.

And those held in administrative detention are affiliated with terrorist groups and often have previously been convicted of terrorism charges. So it's not at all akin to Hamas and allied groups grabbing random civilians from a music festival and from their homes, including small children.

Israelis brace to learn the fate of Hamas' youngest hostage, taken captive as a baby

Holding people against their will without charges on suspicion of terrorism and sometimes torturing them is “akin” to kidnapping.

 

[Derec]

Before the war imports were s3verly restricted. Anything potentially of use to Hamas was canned In one case concrete. Sea and land blockade.

And for a good reason: anything potentially of use to Hamas was actually used by Hamas to help them attack Israel. Including concrete for hundreds of miles of tunnels and water pipes for thousands of rocket fuselages.

 

[Derec]

Holding people against their will without charges on suspicion of terrorism and sometimes torturing them is “akin” to kidnapping.

How is this different from Gitmo?

And again, I have already shown why it is very different than the kidnappings by Gazan terrorists.

 

[Derec]

I think even you would be ready to take up a shotgun if your neighbors kept cutting off your electricity and water supply. I know the people in my town would.

You are confusing cause and effect. We are dealing with somebody who has taken up the proverbial shotgun (i.e. unguided rockets, mortars, even incendiary balloons and kites intended to set forests and fields in Israel on fire) a long time ago, and for no reason other than that they want to kill their neighbors and take over their house.