Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[laughing dog]

The question remains what viable paths did they have? Remember, there are a lot of highly trained military leaders in the world that are hostile to Israel. If they saw a better strategy do you think they would not have pointed it out to make Israel look bad?? You think you know more about military strategy than the vast majority of people whose job it is do evaluate such things??

Ah, the argument of authority.

There are a lot of people that would have liked making Israel look bad. None did. Why?

Plenty of alternatives. Targeted assignations of leadership.

I guess it must have slipped your mind that they tried that?

And they got told off by Trump for trying. The Hamas leaders live in Qatar

They didn’t try targeted killings in Gaza. And bombing the crap out of Gaza doesn’t affect Hamas in Qatar.

Of course they didn't try targeted killings. It's a fantasy answer with no connection to what can actually be done.

Since the IDF did targeted killings outside of Gaza, I'd say your response is a fantasy answer.

Look at how much time goes into setting up such things. It's not a viable wartime strategy.

First, you dispute IDF findings on a regular basis. Second, Ami Alyalon (former head of Shin Bet), Tamir Pardo, (former chief of Mossad), Matan Vilnai (former deputy of Israeli army chief), Ehud Barak (former Israeli PM and IDF General), and Moshe Ya'alon (former Defense Minister and IDF Chief of Staff) are examples of Israelis with extensive experience who disagreed with the prosecution of the war. You think you more than those highly trained and experienced people?

Viability depends on a number of factors - goals, timeline and methods - are but 3 of the influences. But if viability is your metric, clearly bombing the shit out of Gaza to eliminate Hamas and get the hostages back alive wasn't viable.

I'm not arguing details of how they go about it. I'm talking about whether they have an alternative substantially different than what they did. Remember, the media is going to report any slight disagreement as big because that's what drives news. (Not specific to Israel--just news need controversy. Things get reported in the way that makes the most controversy. "Nothing that matters happened" doesn't get eyeballs.)

FFS, you argue details ad nauseum. I debunked your argument from authority.

Your criterion of “substantially” different is ill defined and perfect for your MO of nitpicking and straw men.

 

[robnisch]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?
Fuck BiBi and his supporters!

 

[laughing dog]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

 

[Gospel]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

Loren's argument rejects Israel's stated end goal of eventually returning governance to a Palestinian authority because, in his view, Gazans don't want peace and expecting otherwise demands the impossible from Israel. If that's true, is it really unreasonable for me to consider the logical end state of his position is a Gaza with far fewer Palestinians?

 

[Colonel Sanders]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

 

[laughing dog]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe.

 

[ZiprHead]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe stupid bullshit.

FTFY

 

[Derec]

Irondequoit woman accused of sending crypto to fund Palestine Islamic Jihad terror group

An Irondequoit woman has been arrested on a federal charge of attempting to provide material support and resources to a designated foreign terrorist organization.
Catherine Washburn, 37, is a leader of the Direct Action Movement for Palestinian Liberation, an extremist organization formed after the Oct. 7, 2023 attack on Israel by Hamas, according to a release from the Department of Justice.
According to a criminal complaint, DAMPL rejects the idea of peaceful protests and engages in direct action, including acts of sabotage and property destruction in support of the Palestinian cause and against entities that it associates with Israel.
[...]
In one of the messages, Washburn stated, 'f I lived in Gaza, I would fight alongside the resistance.' Washburn praised his bravery and stated, 'I wish every day were October 7th.' Washburn further stated in that message that the individual was not the first fighter she had met, that she hated Jews 'very much,' and that she wished Israel 'would disappear.'

 

[Gospel]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe.

True, the West Bank isn't governed by Hamas. That's a fair criticism if Colonel intended to treat all Palestinians as though they're represented by Hamas, although I'm not convinced that's what he meant.

I also know you and I both agree that Hamas is an authoritarian organization with a long record of terrorism, political repression, and severe restrictions on civil liberties. Colonel is right to criticize protesters who claim to support human rights while ignoring or minimizing the fact that Hamas is openly opposed to many of those same principles.

Where I disagree with, and believe I have wrong until proven otherwise, is the leap from "Hamas is terrible" to "pro-Palestinian protesters in the West support Hamas or want Jews exterminated," which Colonel seems to be tripling down on. That distinction matters. Criticizing Israel's conduct, supporting Palestinian civilians, or advocating for Palestinian statehood is not automatically the same thing as supporting Hamas.

I'm sure some protesters do harbor antisemitic views, and some may even support Hamas. But I don't think it's fair to assume that applies to everyone protesting on behalf of Palestinians. Likewise, there are antisemites on the political right. They wouldn't necessarily align themselves with Hamas because many of them are also deeply hostile toward Muslims but they have Nazi/White Supremacist affiliations. It wouldn't be fair or reasonable for me to conclude that everyone on the political right is a Nazi because some of them advocated violence towards Jewish people. That's just ridiculous. Hatred of Jews isn't confined to one political movement, and neither is support for Palestinian civilians. It's better to judge people by what they actually advocate than by assuming the most extreme position within a broader group represents everyone.

With that said, @Loren Pechtel , which do you actually support? Do you support Israel's stated objective of removing Hamas and eventually replacing it with non-Hamas Palestinian leadership in Gaza? Or do you believe the end goal should be the permanent removal or destruction of Gaza's non-Jewish population? I ask because you seem to strongly support Israel's actions, I'm trying to understand whether you support its stated end goal or something else. And please don't dodge the question with "there's no perfect solution" or by reminding everyone that Israel will continue to face attacks from Palestinians, Iran, Hezbollah, or other hostile groups. I'm not disputing that Israel is in an incredibly difficult security situation.

 

[Tigers!]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe.

True, the West Bank isn't governed by Hamas. That's a fair criticism if Colonel intended to treat all Palestinians as though they're represented by Hamas, although I'm not convinced that's what he meant.

As one who has been very active on this thread and to try to avoid accusations that are not warranted I will answer Gospel's clear and concise questions on my behalf

I also know you and I both agree that Hamas is an authoritarian organization with a long record of terrorism, political repression, and severe restrictions on civil liberties. Colonel is right to criticize protesters who claim to support human rights while ignoring or minimizing the fact that Hamas is openly opposed to many of those same principles.

Yes

Where I disagree with, and believe I have wrong until proven otherwise, is the leap from "Hamas is terrible" to "pro-Palestinian protesters in the West support Hamas or want Jews exterminated," which Colonel seems to be tripling down on. That distinction matters. Criticizing Israel's conduct, supporting Palestinian civilians, or advocating for Palestinian statehood is not automatically the same thing as supporting Hamas.

I have in the past being critical of Israel's/IDF approach at times. For example the flinging in of bombs just to make the rubble bounce is unjustifiable and deadly. Not enough care taken too many times. I do not support Hamas.

I'm sure some protesters do harbor antisemitic views, and some may even support Hamas. But I don't think it's fair to assume that applies to everyone protesting on behalf of Palestinians. Likewise, there are antisemites on the political right. They wouldn't necessarily align themselves with Hamas because many of them are also deeply hostile toward Muslims but they have Nazi/White Supremacist affiliations. It wouldn't be fair or reasonable for me to conclude that everyone on the political right is a Nazi because some of them advocated violence towards Jewish people. That's just ridiculous. Hatred of Jews isn't confined to one political movement, and neither is support for Palestinian civilians. It's better to judge people by what they actually advocate than by assuming the most extreme position within a broader group represents everyone.

Yes indeed.

With that said, @Loren Pechtel , which do you actually support? Do you support Israel's stated objective of removing Hamas and eventually replacing it with non-Hamas Palestinian leadership in Gaza?

Yes I do support the removal of Hamas to be replaced by Gazans who truly care about Gaza and its people. What should be the end goal is an environment of secure borders for all sides and the cessation of attacks from other's land or attacks by 3rd parties from their terriority.

Or do you believe the end goal should be the permanent removal or destruction of Gaza's non-Jewish population?

No. The Gazans should have an area of their own for them to live in peace and security.

I ask because you seem to strongly support Israel's actions, I'm trying to understand whether you support its stated end goal or something else.

Peace and security for all.

And please don't dodge the question with "there's no perfect solution" or by reminding everyone that Israel will continue to face attacks from Palestinians, Iran, Hezbollah, or other hostile groups. I'm not disputing that Israel is in an incredibly difficult security situation.

Agreed

 

[Colonel Sanders]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe.

Oh. Good to know that Muslim violence has never come from the West Bank issue. I'd say "nice try" but it's not nice and not worthy of the word "try."

 

[Colonel Sanders]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe stupid bullshit.

FTFY

What a great way to address the issues. No need to bother considering 20th century history and the current on-the-ground realities when you can just put a line through some words and pull personal insults out of your culo that are no better than a similarly hateful rightwing brownshirt.

 

[laughing dog]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe.

Oh. Good to know that Muslim violence has never come from the West Bank issue. I'd say "nice try" but it's not nice and not worthy of the word "try."

It seems you are tying Hamas’s behaviour to Israeli actions in the West Bank. What evidence do you have?

And even if that is the case, are you tacitly arguing that is the reason for Israel’s actions in the West Bank?

I am trying to elicit a coherent connection about a diatribe about Hamas that quoted a post about the West Bank. The assumption on my part that you are capable of a coherent response is a polite compliment.

 

[Arctish]

In the West Bank, Israeli settlers take over Palestinian's dream home

JALUD, West Bank, July 3 (Reuters) - Palestinian Mohammad Salameh was building a home for his family in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, where his recently engaged son was meant to start married life. Instead, before construction was complete, a ‌group of Israeli settlers seized the property.
Video filmed earlier in the week and verified by Reuters showed at least six settlers moving around on the roof of the two-storey house, which sits below a nearby hill.

Salameh said appeals to the Israeli military and police brought no help. Now he fears his home, which like many others in the Palestinian territory is surrounded by Israeli settlements and smaller outposts, is lost forever. Other houses in the area could suffer the same fate, he said.
"Only God knows, if there is law and order then they will leave," Salameh said. "If they succeeded with taking ⁠one, then the rest will follow."
Reuters was unable to reach the settlers for comment. One of them could be seen walking on the house's roof on Thursday.

The Israeli military said it received a report regarding the house earlier this week and that "soldiers arrived to the area and quickly acted to disperse the gathering". It did not comment on the settlers' continued presence in the house.

Blatant theft with assistance from the IDF. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe.

Oh. Good to know that Muslim violence has never come from the West Bank issue. I'd say "nice try" but it's not nice and not worthy of the word "try."

It seems you are tying Hamas’s behaviour to Israeli actions in the West Bank. What evidence do you have?

And even if that is the case, are you tacitly arguing that is the reason for Israel’s actions in the West Bank?

I am trying to elicit a coherent connection about a diatribe about Hamas that quoted a post about the West Bank. The assumption on my part that you are capable of a coherent response is a polite compliment.

Israel occupied the West Bank during the Six Day War, which saw three Arab nations try to invade Israel. Israel gave them a big spanking and took territory in order to ensure their right to exist. So why not hold Syria, Jordan, and Egypt equally responsible for the problems in the West Bank since they were the ones who invaded Israel, one of the consequences being the occupation of the West Bank?

Just admit you'd rather see Jews massacred by Muslim theocrats than hold those brutal theocrats responsible for their actions.

The following took about 40 seconds to find.

Technical Difficulties

1) With respect to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank: arbitrary or unlawful killings; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by the Palestinian Authority; arbitrary arrest or detention; serious problems with the independence of the judiciary; political prisoners or detainees; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom, including violence or threats of violence against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecutions of journalists and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association, including overly restrictive laws on the organization, funding, or operation of nongovernmental and civil society organizations; inability of citizens to change their government peacefully through free and fair elections; serious and unreasonable restrictions on political participation; serious high-level corruption; serious restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organizations; extensive gender-based violence, including domestic or intimate partner violence; violence or threats of violence motivated by antisemitism; crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, or intersex persons; and existence of the worst forms of child labor.

 

[ZiprHead]

Just admit you'd rather see Jews Muslims massacred by Muslim Jewish theocrats than hold those brutal theocrats responsible for their actions.

Hey! It works both ways.

 

[laughing dog]

How is tearing up roads and water lines in the West Bank helping?

It’s helping the long term ethnic cleansing goal of the hardline Zionists, racists, and their enablers in the West.

I'd say I love the hypocrisy and empty-headed reversal of the stated policies and actions of Hamas that anti-semites use to justify their wish for yet another attempt to exterminate Israel and therefore the Jews, but I need to replace "love" with "loathe" and work in the word "disgusting."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is rightfully seen as abhorrent, but when oppressive theocracies massacre another nation's civilians under the direction of the government of an Islamic-fascist nation, well, "Free Palestine!" This also leads to condoning Iran's actions and influence by proxy.

On U.S. campuses across the nation, Jewish students have been threatened and terrorized to the point that many feel the need to hide their Jewish identity. But that's fine because... well hell, I don't know.

I've listed the following several times, but I'll do so again:

Women's rights.
LGBTQ rights.
Freedom of speech
Freedom of and from religion

I could list more, but I think that's adequate. The clear observation here is that Hamas will arrest, torture, and murder people for the above. Israel won't. The atrocities and aggression committed by Palestine's government are well documented yet it's all not just condoned, but supported by influential people in our universities. The DNC is complicit by not exorcising those who, like you, support the killing and hatred for Jews.

"From the River to the Sea!"

Do you have any idea what that sentiment means, particularly when it comes from Hamas?

Perhaps if you could link your response to the West Bank (which is not under the control of Hamas), it would appear less than a mindless diatribe.

Oh. Good to know that Muslim violence has never come from the West Bank issue. I'd say "nice try" but it's not nice and not worthy of the word "try."

It seems you are tying Hamas’s behaviour to Israeli actions in the West Bank. What evidence do you have?

And even if that is the case, are you tacitly arguing that is the reason for Israel’s actions in the West Bank?

I am trying to elicit a coherent connection about a diatribe about Hamas that quoted a post about the West Bank. The assumption on my part that you are capable of a coherent response is a polite compliment.

Israel occupied the West Bank during the Six Day War, which saw three Arab nations try to invade Israel. Israel gave them a big spanking and took territory in order to ensure their right to exist. So why not hold Syria, Jordan, and Egypt equally responsible for the problems in the West Bank since they were the ones who invaded Israel, one of the consequences being the occupation of the West Bank?

Are you arguing that the slow and deliberate ethnic cleansing is the direct and only result forced upon Israel from the 1967 war started by Arabs? If so, I must say that breathtakingly idiotic.

Just admit you'd rather see Jews massacred by Muslim theocrats than hold those brutal theocrats responsible for their actions.

My maternal great grandparents who were Jews were killed by the nazis in Poland. I have Jewish grade school classmates living in Israel. Stop projecting your irrational hatred onto others.

I must admit that my assumption of your capability if a coherent connection between Hamas and the current situation in the West Bank was sadly misplaced.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

An unconvincing but super ironic considering your eloquent “An argument is not strengthened by holding on to it, and repeating it, despite being offered reasons as to why it is wrong.”

I explained why you are wrong upthread. Loren Pechtel then explained it to you again.
And yet you keep repeating the same thing like a mantra. The irony is all on you.

I realize you have faith in your explanation but it is undeserved. You used disparate outcomes as the basis of your analysis. There is no shame in that - it is a rational approach even if it is based on tenuous underlying assumptions in this case.

Why you wish to deny using a rational approach is fascinatingly funny. And the irony-resistant responses are amusing. Thank you for the master lessons.

So you have turned this into a circus about disparate impact rather than addressing the original issue of the large number of military age males who died.

What is your explanation for the disparity?

You’ve turned this into the circus with your denial of reality. I pointed out a double standard. I have no problem with disparate outcomes as suggestive evidence.

Then how about addressing the point?

Hey ringmaster, I did.

Where is this supposed addressing of the point??

You finally admitted that disparate outcome doesn't prove what you suggested, but nowhere did you address why we should not expect the excess military age male casualties in war to be military.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Where I disagree with, and believe I have wrong until proven otherwise, is the leap from "Hamas is terrible" to "pro-Palestinian protesters in the West support Hamas or want Jews exterminated," which Colonel seems to be tripling down on. That distinction matters. Criticizing Israel's conduct, supporting Palestinian civilians, or advocating for Palestinian statehood is not automatically the same thing as supporting Hamas.

They do not knowingly seek genocide of the Jews. But antisemitism has become so normalized that they do not see the wrong they are doing.

I'm sure some protesters do harbor antisemitic views, and some may even support Hamas. But I don't think it's fair to assume that applies to everyone protesting on behalf of Palestinians. Likewise, there are antisemites on the political right. They wouldn't necessarily align themselves with Hamas because many of them are also deeply hostile toward Muslims but they have Nazi/White Supremacist affiliations. It wouldn't be fair or reasonable for me to conclude that everyone on the political right is a Nazi because some of them advocated violence towards Jewish people. That's just ridiculous. Hatred of Jews isn't confined to one political movement, and neither is support for Palestinian civilians. It's better to judge people by what they actually advocate than by assuming the most extreme position within a broader group represents everyone.

A better comparison is the large number of MAGAs that turn a blind eye towards the Nazi leanings of their leaders.

With that said, @Loren Pechtel , which do you actually support? Do you support Israel's stated objective of removing Hamas and eventually replacing it with non-Hamas Palestinian leadership in Gaza? Or do you believe the end goal should be the permanent removal or destruction of Gaza's non-Jewish population? I ask because you seem to strongly support Israel's actions, I'm trying to understand whether you support its stated end goal or something else. And please don't dodge the question with "there's no perfect solution" or by reminding everyone that Israel will continue to face attacks from Palestinians, Iran, Hezbollah, or other hostile groups. I'm not disputing that Israel is in an incredibly difficult security situation.

Ideal: Two peaceful Palestinian states and Israel.

However, I do not believe this is possible so long as the money keeps flowing to the terrorists.

Hamas is an oppressor that will have to be removed, but that will not be a major obstacle if they are no longer being funded. The GHF was a major threat to their existence as Hamas maintains it's power by controlling the supplies. Bypass that, they'll fall. The world needs to look very carefully at aid--it almost universally has become a major tool of oppression.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In the West Bank, Israeli settlers take over Palestinian's dream home

JALUD, West Bank, July 3 (Reuters) - Palestinian Mohammad Salameh was building a home for his family in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, where his recently engaged son was meant to start married life. Instead, before construction was complete, a ‌group of Israeli settlers seized the property.
Video filmed earlier in the week and verified by Reuters showed at least six settlers moving around on the roof of the two-storey house, which sits below a nearby hill.

Salameh said appeals to the Israeli military and police brought no help. Now he fears his home, which like many others in the Palestinian territory is surrounded by Israeli settlements and smaller outposts, is lost forever. Other houses in the area could suffer the same fate, he said.
"Only God knows, if there is law and order then they will leave," Salameh said. "If they succeeded with taking ⁠one, then the rest will follow."
Reuters was unable to reach the settlers for comment. One of them could be seen walking on the house's roof on Thursday.

The Israeli military said it received a report regarding the house earlier this week and that "soldiers arrived to the area and quickly acted to disperse the gathering". It did not comment on the settlers' continued presence in the house.

Blatant theft with assistance from the IDF. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.

Last time you posted one of these the article said "privately owned" about the land, but didn't specify the owner. This time it doesn't even say that much.

When you see things like this keep in mind a standard Palestinian tactic is to build things on land they don't own, then cry to the reporters when the inevitable happens.