Here Comes The Left

[ZiprHead]

It's pretty gauche for Democrats to be salivating over Mitch McConnell's seat like a bunch of vultures circling overhead.

Considering all the bitching you did about Biden, it is more so to use a very sick, too sick to no longer perform his duties, man just to keep his seat.

He is not even dead yet.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Toni]

I don't know about Amazon.
But my opinion of Walmart went up a bunch during COVID-19.
Nobody could enter without wearing a mask. Just inside the door was a big hand sanitizer station. Smaller ones were scattered around the store. Employees would politely, but firmly, remind shoppers of the stores distancing requirements.
Most Mom and Pop stores didn't bother with any of that.
Tom

Government was choosing which business could succeed and which would have to fail. In my own neck of the woods, some restaurants got to stay open and others had to close. That is not free market capitalism. It might be good politics for you and even feel good to you today..... but it is simply not free market capitalism. And that assumes COVID was a real pandemic that mattered in a material way to the public (which in itself is still a controversy today). Assuming COVID was a real public threat the government could have and should have simply said every business had to follow the same rules in order to stay open. That's not what they did. Government could have acted like an honest umpire in that crises... the umpire letting one team get 3 strikes but letting the other team get 4 strikes before they were out. Our government was not fair at all to free market capitalism.

Whatever the US is doing today, its not free market capitalism and it is IMO getting even worse with Trump mixing government and private enterprise. Maybe it should be called fascism? Or perhaps some word that means government completely held hostage by monopoly powerful unknown interests who are hiding in plain sight?

In any case, what the left should be doing is fervently attacking and fighting the current sad state of fascism. Asking for free market capitalism first! Before making an opinion that we need more socialism for a better life. We might just be perfectly happy just to get rid of the powerful interests making all the decisions. Or if that's too difficult of a task....maybe just smaller government that can't interfere as much or do the big damage we see today?

The left should be truthful with itself knowing what has happened and what could have happened. Before making any advertisements that socialism might be better.

If your point is that extremism from any direction is bad government, I whole heartedly agree.

It is the responsibility of all people to adhere to our highest principles and to seek middle ground. This can best be done by not demonizing ‘the other side.’ There should be no ‘other side.’ There can and will be and should be differing opinions about the best approach to how best to structure governed t to best serve the people. Compromise and middle ground are often key elements in finding the best solutions.

 

[Elixir]

There can and will be and should be differing opinions about the best approach to how best to structure governed t to best serve the people.

Sure. But opinions are like assholes - everybody has one and they all stink. No biggie…
UNTIL we are saddled with a government frantically re-structuring its own rules (Constitution) to serve the executive individual currently in power, and to keep him and his family in power into perpetuity.

 

[Toni]

There can and will be and should be differing opinions about the best approach to how best to structure governed t to best serve the people.

Sure. But opinions are like assholes - everybody has one and they all stink. No biggie…
UNTIL we are saddled with a government frantically re-structuring its own rules (Constitution) to serve the executive individual currently in power, and to keep him and his family in power into perpetuity.

Yeah, well that’s your opinion.

My opinions are lovely, well researched and well thought out with my only motivation being peace on earth good will towards all and my opinions smell of roses and forests in the autumn and fresh cut hay, with a bit of that sweet smell on top of a baby’s head. And freshly baking brownies, made from scratch. And cinnamon.

 

[laughing dog]

Speaking of rape and "here comes the left":

Walz questions Trump administration's deportation of pedophile to Laos

The MN board of pardons pardoned a Laotian national for child rape. The Knucklehead is part of the three member board. Then Walz bitched that the child rapist finally got deported. He had an order of deportation since 2006. We truly had a very broken immigration system.

Btw, the article above does not specify the girl's age, but this shows that she was 10.

Another btw, the same board commuted the sentence of a gang banger who murdered an 11 year old girl while shooting at somebody from a rival gang. They really do have a disturbing track record ...

The pardon of Vang was disturbing on many levels. Vang did serve his time and his victim did write to support his pardon, but it was a boneheaded decision on at least three levels. First, the pardon of an admitted child rapist who partially blamed the victim is repugnant on uts face. Second, it is political poison for DFL candidates in a crucial midterm election to gain control of the state legislature and Congress. Finally, why would anyone think that “the rules” or “the law” stop thus administration from deporting this creep.

I believe Mr Walz has lost whatever political touch he had.

 

[Elixir]

Yeah, well that’s your opinion.

Fair enough.

My opinions are lovely, well researched and well thought out with my only motivation being peace on earth good will towards all and my opinions smell of roses and forests in the autumn and fresh cut hay, with a bit of that sweet smell on top of a baby’s head. And freshly baking brownies, made from scratch. And cinnamon.

The fresh cut hay is the only thing above that doesn’t stink after being metabolized. And even that is a matter of opinion.

 

[Toni]

Yeah, well that’s your opinion.

Fair enough.

My opinions are lovely, well researched and well thought out with my only motivation being peace on earth good will towards all and my opinions smell of roses and forests in the autumn and fresh cut hay, with a bit of that sweet smell on top of a baby’s head. And freshly baking brownies, made from scratch. And cinnamon.

The fresh cut hay is the only thing above that doesn’t stink after being metabolized. And even that is a matter of opinion.

Clearly you have not spent time near cow barns. What do you feed your horse? I know you know what metabolized hay and oats smell like.

Cinnamon has a long shelf life for scent and wtf talking about metabolizing babies’ heads!

 

[Elixir]

Clearly you have not spent time near cow barns.

Cows are clearly sick animals. Horses metabolize hay correctly.
Funny thing about cow barns though …
Did you ever notice that they aren’t that bad when you’re right IN them, but can be chokingly bad a few hundred yards downwind?

 

[Toni]

Clearly you have not spent time near cow barns.

Cows are clearly sick animals. Horses metabolize hay correctly.
Funny thing about cow barns though …
Did you ever notice that they aren’t that bad when you’re right IN them, but can be chokingly bad a few hundred yards downwind?

My parents turned a deaf ear to our pleas fur a horse which would be absolutely no extra trouble or expense living at my inches farm so I don’t have as much experience with horse emissions as I do with those of cows but I suppose it’s all in the nose of the smeller?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here is the original ProPublica story.

An Unbelievable Story of Rape

An 18-year-old said she was attacked at knifepoint. Then she said she made it up. That’s where our story begins.

www.propublica.org

Understandable.

The police confronted her with a big contradiction in her story, she recanted.

 

[Elixir]

I suppose it’s all in the nose of the smeller?

No question!
I certainly noticed smell associations changing once we started keeping horses. Their sweat went from stinky to earthy, their poop from smelly to … not fragrant, but not offensive, and even fly spray (permethrin) went from chemical irritant to comforting background scent. All together, these things comprise an olfactory landscape of scents that used to be “eeeuw!” and are now “homey”. The only thing that really needs mitigating is ammonia - no getting used to that, but there are effective chemical interventions that can extend periods between cleanings.

 

[Toni]

Yeah, when we used to visit the area where I grew up, hubby would find the farm smells overwhelming but yes, they smelled like home. Over time, he adapted. Sadly now, most of the people we used to go to visit are gone and fulfillment centers stand on perfectly good farmland.

 

[RVonse]

I don't know about Amazon.
But my opinion of Walmart went up a bunch during COVID-19.
Nobody could enter without wearing a mask. Just inside the door was a big hand sanitizer station. Smaller ones were scattered around the store. Employees would politely, but firmly, remind shoppers of the stores distancing requirements.
Most Mom and Pop stores didn't bother with any of that.
Tom

Government was choosing which business could succeed and which would have to fail. In my own neck of the woods, some restaurants got to stay open and others had to close. That is not free market capitalism. It might be good politics for you and even feel good to you today..... but it is simply not free market capitalism. And that assumes COVID was a real pandemic that mattered in a material way to the public (which in itself is still a controversy today). Assuming COVID was a real public threat the government could have and should have simply said every business had to follow the same rules in order to stay open. That's not what they did. Government could have acted like an honest umpire in that crises... the umpire letting one team get 3 strikes but letting the other team get 4 strikes before they were out. Our government was not fair at all to free market capitalism.

Whatever the US is doing today, its not free market capitalism and it is IMO getting even worse with Trump mixing government and private enterprise. Maybe it should be called fascism? Or perhaps some word that means government completely held hostage by monopoly powerful unknown interests who are hiding in plain sight?

In any case, what the left should be doing is fervently attacking and fighting the current sad state of fascism. Asking for free market capitalism first! Before making an opinion that we need more socialism for a better life. We might just be perfectly happy just to get rid of the powerful interests making all the decisions. Or if that's too difficult of a task....maybe just smaller government that can't interfere as much or do the big damage we see today?

The left should be truthful with itself knowing what has happened and what could have happened. Before making any advertisements that socialism might be better.

If your point is that extremism from any direction is bad government, I whole heartedly agree.

It is the responsibility of all people to adhere to our highest principles and to seek middle ground. This can best be done by not demonizing ‘the other side.’ There should be no ‘other side.’ There can and will be and should be differing opinions about the best approach to how best to structure governed t to best serve the people. Compromise and middle ground are often key elements in finding the best solutions.

I clearly agree with what you say here. 1000%

But my point is that the left needs to understand what free market capitalism is and what socialism is before knowing that socialism is the answer. All of us appear ignorant of what socialism really is and I get the feeling that many on the left have not even bothered to troubleshoot the problem before they immediately jump to their socialism ideology. Indeed, maybe the problems with America might not be that it needs socialism, maybe America just needs to be what it was supposed to be.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't know about Amazon.
But my opinion of Walmart went up a bunch during COVID-19.
Nobody could enter without wearing a mask. Just inside the door was a big hand sanitizer station. Smaller ones were scattered around the store. Employees would politely, but firmly, remind shoppers of the stores distancing requirements.
Most Mom and Pop stores didn't bother with any of that.
Tom

Government was choosing which business could succeed and which would have to fail. In my own neck of the woods, some restaurants got to stay open and others had to close. That is not free market capitalism. It might be good politics for you and even feel good to you today..... but it is simply not free market capitalism. And that assumes COVID was a real pandemic that mattered in a material way to the public (which in itself is still a controversy today). Assuming COVID was a real public threat the government could have and should have simply said every business had to follow the same rules in order to stay open. That's not what they did. Government could have acted like an honest umpire in that crises... the umpire letting one team get 3 strikes but letting the other team get 4 strikes before they were out. Our government was not fair at all to free market capitalism.

Whatever the US is doing today, its not free market capitalism and it is IMO getting even worse with Trump mixing government and private enterprise. Maybe it should be called fascism? Or perhaps some word that means government completely held hostage by monopoly powerful unknown interests who are hiding in plain sight?

In any case, what the left should be doing is fervently attacking and fighting the current sad state of fascism. Asking for free market capitalism first! Before making an opinion that we need more socialism for a better life. We might just be perfectly happy just to get rid of the powerful interests making all the decisions. Or if that's too difficult of a task....maybe just smaller government that can't interfere as much or do the big damage we see today?

The left should be truthful with itself knowing what has happened and what could have happened. Before making any advertisements that socialism might be better.

If your point is that extremism from any direction is bad government, I whole heartedly agree.

It is the responsibility of all people to adhere to our highest principles and to seek middle ground. This can best be done by not demonizing ‘the other side.’ There should be no ‘other side.’ There can and will be and should be differing opinions about the best approach to how best to structure governed t to best serve the people. Compromise and middle ground are often key elements in finding the best solutions.

I clearly agree with what you say here. 1000%

But my point is that the left needs to understand what free market capitalism is and what socialism is before knowing that socialism is the answer. All of us appear ignorant of what socialism really is and I get the feeling that many on the left have not even bothered to troubleshoot the problem before they immediately jump to their socialism ideology. Indeed, maybe the problems with America might not be that it needs socialism, maybe America just needs to be what it was supposed to be.

According to your understanding,
1) what is really socialism,
2) what is really free market capitalism, and when did the US have it, and
3) what was America supposed to be?

I ask, because if you are invoking the founding father's views, that included legalized slavery, no voting rights for women , , and no direct election of senators, among other things.

 

[Toni]

I don't know about Amazon.
But my opinion of Walmart went up a bunch during COVID-19.
Nobody could enter without wearing a mask. Just inside the door was a big hand sanitizer station. Smaller ones were scattered around the store. Employees would politely, but firmly, remind shoppers of the stores distancing requirements.
Most Mom and Pop stores didn't bother with any of that.
Tom

Government was choosing which business could succeed and which would have to fail. In my own neck of the woods, some restaurants got to stay open and others had to close. That is not free market capitalism. It might be good politics for you and even feel good to you today..... but it is simply not free market capitalism. And that assumes COVID was a real pandemic that mattered in a material way to the public (which in itself is still a controversy today). Assuming COVID was a real public threat the government could have and should have simply said every business had to follow the same rules in order to stay open. That's not what they did. Government could have acted like an honest umpire in that crises... the umpire letting one team get 3 strikes but letting the other team get 4 strikes before they were out. Our government was not fair at all to free market capitalism.

Whatever the US is doing today, its not free market capitalism and it is IMO getting even worse with Trump mixing government and private enterprise. Maybe it should be called fascism? Or perhaps some word that means government completely held hostage by monopoly powerful unknown interests who are hiding in plain sight?

In any case, what the left should be doing is fervently attacking and fighting the current sad state of fascism. Asking for free market capitalism first! Before making an opinion that we need more socialism for a better life. We might just be perfectly happy just to get rid of the powerful interests making all the decisions. Or if that's too difficult of a task....maybe just smaller government that can't interfere as much or do the big damage we see today?

The left should be truthful with itself knowing what has happened and what could have happened. Before making any advertisements that socialism might be better.

If your point is that extremism from any direction is bad government, I whole heartedly agree.

It is the responsibility of all people to adhere to our highest principles and to seek middle ground. This can best be done by not demonizing ‘the other side.’ There should be no ‘other side.’ There can and will be and should be differing opinions about the best approach to how best to structure governed t to best serve the people. Compromise and middle ground are often key elements in finding the best solutions.

I clearly agree with what you say here. 1000%

But my point is that the left needs to understand what free market capitalism is and what socialism is before knowing that socialism is the answer. All of us appear ignorant of what socialism really is and I get the feeling that many on the left have not even bothered to troubleshoot the problem before they immediately jump to their socialism ideology. Indeed, maybe the problems with America might not be that it needs socialism, maybe America just needs to be what it was supposed to be.

I don’t think ‘the left’ are the ones who are confused.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the issue is perceiving something as an assault when there was not such.

I think the issue is not perceiving the issue is assault when it is.

Both are an issue. The former (what Loren said) is a type I error, while yours is a Type II error. I think that here (and when dealing with crime in general) type I errors are far more significant. We should not try to reduce type II errors by lowering the threshold and thereby increasing the number of type I errors.

Exactly. I keep seeing the low rate of conviction being presented as justification for shifting the balance--but the low conviction rate is not due to excessive caution in the first place, so this argument is invalid.

 

[Toni]

I think the issue is perceiving something as an assault when there was not such.

I think the issue is not perceiving the issue is assault when it is.

Both are an issue. The former (what Loren said) is a type I error, while yours is a Type II error. I think that here (and when dealing with crime in general) type I errors are far more significant. We should not try to reduce type II errors by lowering the threshold and thereby increasing the number of type I errors.

Exactly. I keep seeing the low rate of conviction being presented as justification for shifting the balance--but the low conviction rate is not due to excessive caution in the first place, so this argument is invalid.

Why do you say that?

 

[ZiprHead]

Here is the original ProPublica story.

An Unbelievable Story of Rape

An 18-year-old said she was attacked at knifepoint. Then she said she made it up. That’s where our story begins.

www.propublica.org

Understandable.

The police confronted her with a big contradiction in her story, she recanted.

Forced her to recant instead of doing a proper investigation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Which ones for example? I know you believe Ramirez re Kavanaugh, even though she admitted that she wasn't sure the alleged penis belonged to Kav until she spoke to her lawyer.

Doesn't really matter--she didn't convince me he's guilty. He did.

But the burden of proof should be on her. And her stating that she wasn't sure who it was is fatal to her accusations.
It should never be about the accused having to disprove the allegations, and it most surely should never be about how you feel about the accused, or the way he is acting since that has more to do with his personality than the question of guilt and innocence. And note that I do not think he even publically reacted to the Ramirez accusations since they were not part of the Senate hearings.

No, you are taking burden of proof too literally here.

The burden of proof is on the side making the allegation, but that doesn't mean they actually must be the source of the evidence. It is entirely valid to use the defense's statements in evidence.

I used to think such cases were inherently impossible to prove. Nothing the accuser could say would be adequate to establish it beyond a reasonable doubt. However, these cases are in the public eye--the courtroom doesn't require the defendant to say anything, but their political position does. And when I consider their defense to be false that establishes that the accuser is telling at least a reasonable approximation of the truth.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"Being a bit rough" is not a defense to a rape allegation. It's basically a confession.

"Being a bit rough" is a term relative to personal preference and not at all a confession to a rape allegation. At least not in itself.
There is also not an unequivocal definition of what "a bit rough" means. Rough sex for one person may be considered vanilla by another.

Say two people are having perfectly consensual sex. She feels he is going a "bit rough", and he does it because his last partner liked it that way. If she doesn't say anything, how is he supposed to know she wants it softer? How is he doing anything wrong in this scenario?
And of course, that applies the other way too. She is giving him oral and using too much teeth, or manhandling his two veg a bit too hard. Just like the woman in the first scenario, he should use his words.

If it's rising to the level of a rape allegation that means a "NO" was being ignored.

I have no problem with a couple playing CNC games, but "no" should never be ignored outside an agreement of what does constitute "no".