Christians - who convinced you of the truth of god/jesus?

[No Robots]

Theists, of whatever version, must come to terms with secular humanist morals and ethics. Simply because they are designed to be better at providing a good life.
Scripture is designed to empower the elite.
Tom

True humanism sees the value in the Bible. Here is Lamont:

Humanism, then, holds that certain of the teachings of Jesus possess an ethical import that will always be an inspiration for the human race, and that the Jesus portrayed by the gospel represents one of the supreme personalities of all time. He was the most effective fighter against the hidebound Pharisees of his day, the greatest free speech victim in the history of religion,* and a radiant martyr for the cause of humanity. This interpretation of Jesus as a great good man instead of a god has found ample support within Christianity itself.

Humanism has become locked in an anti-religious mode that is inhibiting its full development.

 

[southernhybrid]

I think the philosophy of Humanism is far better. In fact, I met a Christian last week who told me he had read a book on Secular Humanism and was amazed at how wonderful and beneficial the beliefs were to humanity. He's still a Christian but seemed to have a lot of respect for my being an atheist who valued the principles of Humanism. Have you ever read the book, "The Philosophy of Humanism" by Corliss Lamont. I read it many years ago and enjoyed it. It's far better compared to the ancient mythology presented in the Bible, imo. The OT is full of horrible stories of a vengeful god and the NT has some nice parts to it, but it still talks about an eternal torture in a hell where nonbelievers will be sent. It reminds me of many other type of mythology, but in some ways, it's more disgusting.

Thanks for the reference to Lamont's book. I have had a quick look and will devote some time to it. Humanism is the place where more and more people start their intellectual life. But ultimately, humanism must come to terms with the Bible. The writers that I have mentioned have done exactly that, presented the Bible from a humanist perspective.

Humanism has supposedly been around long before the time of Christ. At least that's what I've read, so I'm not sure how it was influenced by the Bible, if that's what you meant in your post. If I misunderstood you, I apologize and you can clarify. It's very easy to misunderstand what people mean here at times.

Anyway.....my primary belief is in being a good person, sharing with others and not judging anyone based on their ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity, level of education, social status, income, or even their religious beliefs, as there are many religious people who share my values and do good works. I'm skeptical that we have total free will, so I realize that people are all influenced by their genetic and environmental backgrounds. That helps me be less judgmental. Psychopathy is believed to be a disorder of the frontal cortex, so psychopaths can't help lacking empathy etc. At this point, we don't have effective treatment for this awful disease, although I read recently if treated very early in childhood with love and kindness, sometimes that works. Still, psychopaths or anyone with a severe mental illness certainly shouldn't be in powerful positions, but I digress. Sorry.

I donate to a local food pantry almost every week. it's called Five Loafs and Two Fishes. Of course that story is a myth, but poor people need food, regardless of what they believe. I assume the myth is about sharing your food with others.

Maybe those of us who are atheists or Humanists should be more charitable as a group. We aren't very good at that yet. I base that on my experience of being a former member of several atheist and/or Humanist groups. In fact, the Atlanta Freethought Society had to start charging a 100 dollar fee annually for membership, so they could pay the mortgage on the building they bought about 20 years ago. I was also treasurer of a now defunct Humanist group and the contributions were pitiful. The group merged with the AFS.

The reason I never told my son what to believe is because I resented being indoctrinated into evangelical Christianity, so I exposed him to a few different belief systems and let him make up his own mind without any pressure. His genetic father pressured him into becoming a Baha'i, not such a bad religion if you're not a fanatic like my ex. If you enjoy reading religious philosophies,you might enjoy some of the Baha'i texts. I'm sure there are some online. It started in the 1850s in Persia, now Iran and it's rather idealistic, with no threats of hell etc.

 

[southernhybrid]

Theists, of whatever version, must come to terms with secular humanist morals and ethics. Simply because they are designed to be better at providing a good life.
Scripture is designed to empower the elite.
Tom

True humanism sees the value in the Bible. Here is Lamont:

Humanism, then, holds that certain of the teachings of Jesus possess an ethical import that will always be an inspiration for the human race, and that the Jesus portrayed by the gospel represents one of the supreme personalities of all time. He was the most effective fighter against the hidebound Pharisees of his day, the greatest free speech victim in the history of religion,* and a radiant martyr for the cause of humanity. This interpretation of Jesus as a great good man instead of a god has found ample support within Christianity itself.

Humanism has become locked in an anti-religious mode that is inhibiting its full development.

It sees the value of some of the teachings of Jesus, not the entire Bible. I agree with some of the nicer things in the Gospels, like helping the poor, forgiving your enemies, welcoming the stranger and things like that. Sadly, a lot of Christians are what I refer to as OT Christians as they seem to cherry pick the most horrible things in the OT and forget about the better things in the NT. We seem to have lots of those OT types running the US right now.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Humanism has become locked in an anti-religious mode that is inhibiting its full development.

Believing humans require religion is what impedes development.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Theists, of whatever version, must come to terms with secular humanist morals and ethics. Simply because they are designed to be better at providing a good life.
Scripture is designed to empower the elite.
Tom

True humanism sees the value in the Bible. Here is Lamont:

Humanism, then, holds that certain of the teachings of Jesus possess an ethical import that will always be an inspiration for the human race, and that the Jesus portrayed by the gospel represents one of the supreme personalities of all time. He was the most effective fighter against the hidebound Pharisees of his day, the greatest free speech victim in the history of religion,* and a radiant martyr for the cause of humanity. This interpretation of Jesus as a great good man instead of a god has found ample support within Christianity itself.

Humanism has become locked in an anti-religious mode that is inhibiting its full development.

It sees the value of some of the teachings of Jesus, not the entire Bible. I agree with some of the nicer things in the Gospels, like helping the poor, forgiving your enemies, welcoming the stranger and things like that. Sadly, a lot of Christians are what I refer to as OT Christians as they seem to cherry pick the most horrible things in the OT and forget about the better things in the NT. We seem to have lots of those OT types running the US right now.

I'm not fully on board with the golden rule, though. It's a nice idea sometimes, but there's a certain point where you can't be a doormat. And I don't believe in unconditional forgiveness.

 

[Elixir]

I don't believe in unconditional forgiveness.

I believe in its effectiveness. I just don’t believe I have the required capacity to DO it in some cases.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

The Golden Rule doesn't imply doormatism.

It's a direct injunction to universal justice, and seeing from another's perspective.

It's about the only good thing in all three Abrahamic religions.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

The Golden Rule doesn't imply doormatism.

It's a direct injunction to universal justice, and seeing from another's perspective.

It's about the only good thing in all three Abrahamic religions.

Well, I don't use it as a universal principle. Sometimes I'm fine with fighting fire with fire. Much like how I don't disagree with killing 100% of the time. In self defense it might be necessary, or to protect someone else.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

And if you acknowledge anothers, or even the State's, right to kill you in self defence that would be the Golden Rule in action.

 

[No Robots]

Humanism has become locked in an anti-religious mode that is inhibiting its full development.

Believing humans require religion is what impedes development.

I understand the atheist hatred of religion. My father thought evangelical Christians should be lined up against a wall and shot. My first awareness of evangelicals came from Jimmy Carter. I thought then that it was a liberal movement. With Reagan, I saw the danger of conservative Christians. The way to beat them is to master their own proof text. There is absolutely no way to shoehorn the Bible to fit their beliefs, try as they might. The Bible is in essence a manifesto and a play book intended to effect the emancipation of the human spirit. With the spread of secularism, the Bible is freed from the control of existing power structures. It saddens me that atheists have chosen to reject the Bible rather than understand it, but this is a phase in human development: from enforced belief to free rejection to enforced rejection to free belief.

 

[robnisch]

We don't know what Jesus said. It was all made up after the fact. The Bable is a work of human fiction to control the illiterate masses.

ETA: Ask me about my BBQ theory of religion.

 

[southernhybrid]

Humanism has become locked in an anti-religious mode that is inhibiting its full development.

Believing humans require religion is what impedes development.

I understand the atheist hatred of religion. My father thought evangelical Christians should be lined up against a wall and shot. My first awareness of evangelicals came from Jimmy Carter. I thought then that it was a liberal movement. With Reagan, I saw the danger of conservative Christians. The way to beat them is to master their own proof text. There is absolutely no way to shoehorn the Bible to fit their beliefs, try as they might. The Bible is in essence a manifesto and a play book intended to effect the emancipation of the human spirit. With the spread of secularism, the Bible is freed from the control of existing power structures. It saddens me that atheists have chosen to reject the Bible rather than understand it, but this is a phase in human development: from enforced belief to free rejection to enforced rejection to free belief.

I don't hate religious mythology. I support freedom of religion although I don't understand why in the modern age, people continue to take mythology as truth. As I already said, there are af few positive things in the Bible, but some of them are human universals, found in all cultures and societies, as far as we know. My late father used to freak us out but making us read the horrors of the OT, when he was in a bad mood. My religious upbringing gave me emotional damage as a child. While I'm over it, I view the Bible for the most part as a collection of mostly evil myths with a little bit of good stuff in the mix here and there. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me, as long as you don't try to drag me into the boat with you.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Humanism has become locked in an anti-religious mode that is inhibiting its full development.

Believing humans require religion is what impedes development.

I understand the atheist hatred of religion.

Given that there are in fact atheists who do not hate religion, which is a very simple and obvious thing to understand but you clearly missed, I doubt you understand anything about the hatred of those who do hate it. And by the way, the statement that humans do not require religion, does not in itself imply hatred of religion. So another thing that was obvious which you didn't understand.

 

[No Robots]

I don't hate religious mythology. I support freedom of religion although I don't understand why in the modern age, people continue to take mythology as truth. As I already said, there are af few positive things in the Bible, but some of them are human universals, found in all cultures and societies, as far as we know. My late father used to freak us out but making us read the horrors of the OT, when he was in a bad mood. My religious upbringing gave me emotional damage as a child. While I'm over it, I view the Bible for the most part as a collection of mostly evil myths with a little bit of good stuff in the mix here and there. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me, as long as you don't try to drag me into the boat with you.

It was you who referenced Lamont. I just quoted one of the positive things he had to say about the Bible.

Many children are traumatized by their parents' take on religion. To free yourself, you must free yourself from your parents.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I don't hate religious mythology. I support freedom of religion although I don't understand why in the modern age, people continue to take mythology as truth. As I already said, there are af few positive things in the Bible, but some of them are human universals, found in all cultures and societies, as far as we know. My late father used to freak us out but making us read the horrors of the OT, when he was in a bad mood. My religious upbringing gave me emotional damage as a child. While I'm over it, I view the Bible for the most part as a collection of mostly evil myths with a little bit of good stuff in the mix here and there. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me, as long as you don't try to drag me into the boat with you.

Many children are traumatized by their parents' take on religion.

Not the only reason people disagree with religion. You've been exposed to more arguments than that on this forum, so clearly you just weren't paying attention the many times people presented them over how many years?

 

[No Robots]

Given that there are in fact atheists who do not hate religion, which is a very simple and obvious thing to understand but you clearly missed, I doubt you understand anything about the hatred of those who do hate it.

I should have phrased my statement better. I know that some atheists hate religion. My father hated religion because he saw it as irrational superstition that was inhibiting the progress of mankind.

And by the way, the statement that humans do not require religion, does not in itself imply hatred of religion. So another thing that was obvious which you didn't understand.

This is true. But I wanted to address the subject of the hostility to religion that some atheists have.

Many children are traumatized by their parents' take on religion.

Not the only reason people disagree with religion. You've been exposed to more arguments than that on this forum, so clearly you just weren't paying attention the many times people presented them over how many years?

I was simply replying to southernhybrid's description of his father.

There are certainly many reasons that people disagree with religion. The subject of this thread, however, is how those who embrace religion came to do so. It was you who opened the subject of hostility to religion when you said that impeded progress.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I should also mention that it's not the "take on religion" they're traumatized by but the abusive behavior inflicted upon them. So... that was another super obvious thing you seem to have missed.

 

[steve_bank]

I went to Cathodic schools through 12th grade.

After high school I joined the Navy. I was never really religious and it all faded away.

In my 30s I began to see how deep the conditioning went.n ingrained fence to priests and especially the pope as authority figures.

At one pointI actually felt a sense of guilt for abandon the church, it did not last ling.

As much as I dislike Trump, I liked e way he sowed disregard for the pope, somebody has to do it.

These days I could never bring myself to cal a priest 'father'.

 

[No Robots]

I should also mention that it's not the "take on religion" they're traumatized by but the abusive behavior inflicted upon them. So... that was another super obvious thing you seem to have missed.

I appreciate that you take the time and trouble to critique my statements.

Abusive parents are a huge social problem. When parental abuse is coupled to religion, it is made infinitely worse. Children must from an early age learn to relativize their parents as authorities. Nothing is more useful in this regard than to quote the New Testament itself:

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.-LK 14:26

 

[pood]

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.-LK 14:26

Do you really think this alleged quote is a good advertisement for Christ or Christianity?