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Christians - who convinced you of the truth of god/jesus?


If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.-LK 14:26

Do you really think this alleged quote is a good advertisement for Christ or Christianity? :unsure:
Those damned atheists just don't hate their family enough to follow Christ. Tsk tsk tsk.
 


If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.-LK 14:26

Do you really think this alleged quote is a good advertisement for Christ or Christianity? :unsure:
Those damned atheists just don't hate their family enough to follow Christ. Tsk tsk tsk.

Not to mention hate himself!
 
The God of Love wants you to hate yourself and your entire family. Is this not … weird? :unsure:

But love your neighbor! :rolleyes:
 
The God of Love wants you to hate yourself and your entire family. Is this not … weird? :unsure:

But love your neighbor! :rolleyes:
You see, I can make the Bible mean whatever I want it to mean, so hate doesn't really mean hate, and the Bible doesn't really mean anything.
 
The Golden Rule doesn't imply doormatism.

It's a direct injunction to universal justice, and seeing from another's perspective.

It's about the only good thing in all three Abrahamic religions.
... Even though strictly speaking, it's wrong.

It needs to be taken from a "negative" perspective of "do not unto others what you would not have done to you", and when taken in the most general sense of the tautology "that which you do not consent to is that which you would not have done to you", it becomes "do not breach others' consent, because you don't want your own consent breached."
 
Christ's statement is meant to be emancipatory: do not consider yourselves bound by the authority of family ties. This is a way for children, especially children of Christians, to free themselves from any attempts by parents to represent their own authority as religion.
 
The God of Love wants you to hate yourself and your entire family. Is this not … weird? :unsure:

But love your neighbor! :rolleyes:
Here is what Christ says in Mt 5:

[43] You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thy enemy.
[44] But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you:
[45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.
[46] For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?
[47] And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this?
[48] Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

Christ's demand is that love must universalize to the whole of mankind rather than particularize to an ingroup. Part of this evolution means denying (hating) the ingroup.
 
The God of Love wants you to hate yourself and your entire family. Is this not … weird? :unsure:

But love your neighbor! :rolleyes:
Here is what Christ says in Mt 5:

[43] You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thy enemy.
[44] But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you:
[45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.
[46] For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?
[47] And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this?
[48] Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

Christ's demand is that love must universalize to the whole of mankind rather than particularize to an ingroup. Part of this evolution means denying (hating) the ingroup.

Denying the ingroup? So why didn’t he just say that, instead of using the charged verb HATE?

Of course, no one knows what he actually said, as it’s all tenth-hand, or for that matter whether he even existed.
 
So, in order to love everyone, I must love everyone except myself and my family, whom I must hate.

Brilliant reasoning. :rolleyes:
 
The main idea is to reject particularism (self, family, tribe, nation) and embrace universalism. The charged word "hate" is excellent in that it leaves no ambiguity as to the intended polarity.
 
I don't hate religious mythology. I support freedom of religion although I don't understand why in the modern age, people continue to take mythology as truth. As I already said, there are af few positive things in the Bible, but some of them are human universals, found in all cultures and societies, as far as we know. My late father used to freak us out but making us read the horrors of the OT, when he was in a bad mood. My religious upbringing gave me emotional damage as a child. While I'm over it, I view the Bible for the most part as a collection of mostly evil myths with a little bit of good stuff in the mix here and there. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me, as long as you don't try to drag me into the boat with you.

It was you who referenced Lamont. I just quoted one of the positive things he had to say about the Bible.

Many children are traumatized by their parents' take on religion. To free yourself, you must free yourself from your parents.
My parents are dead and I maintained a very close relationship with them until the end. I was the only one my mom recognized prior to her death at age 97. She had dementia. My father and I were very close and I know I was his favorite daughter. He had severe PTSD from combat as well as bipolar disorder. I cared for mentally ill people during many years of my nursing career.

I freed myself from the Bible and from religion, not from my parents because it's easy to forgive. My parents were simply indoctrinated into an extreme version of Christianity. I will never understand it, but I guess they couldn't resist.

I already said there were some good things in the Bible. There are good things in most religions, but there are also lots of bad things as well. I prefer to be good without a god and I don't need the Bible. I probably know more Bible verses than many Christians do as they were drilled into my head as a child, the good, the bad and the ugly. :)
 
The main idea is to reject particularism (self, family, tribe, nation) and embrace universalism.
Cool idea, so I reject Christ as well.
 
I don't hate religious mythology. I support freedom of religion although I don't understand why in the modern age, people continue to take mythology as truth. As I already said, there are af few positive things in the Bible, but some of them are human universals, found in all cultures and societies, as far as we know. My late father used to freak us out but making us read the horrors of the OT, when he was in a bad mood. My religious upbringing gave me emotional damage as a child. While I'm over it, I view the Bible for the most part as a collection of mostly evil myths with a little bit of good stuff in the mix here and there. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me, as long as you don't try to drag me into the boat with you.

It was you who referenced Lamont. I just quoted one of the positive things he had to say about the Bible.

Many children are traumatized by their parents' take on religion. To free yourself, you must free yourself from your parents.
My parents are dead and I maintained a very close relationship with them until the end. I was the only one my mom recognized prior to her death at age 97. She had dementia. My father and I were very close and I know I was his favorite daughter. He had severe PTSD from combat as well as bipolar disorder. I cared for mentally ill people during many years of my nursing career.

I freed myself from the Bible and from religion, not from my parents because it's easy to forgive. My parents were simply indoctrinated into an extreme version of Christianity. I will never understand it, but I guess they couldn't resist.

I already said there were some good things in the Bible. There are good things in most religions, but there are also lots of bad things as well. I prefer to be good without a god and I don't need the Bible. I probably know more Bible verses than many Christians do as they were drilled into my head as a child, the good, the bad and the ugly. :)
I appreciate your openness and clarity with regard to your parents. It's great that you were able to maintain a good relationship with your parents, that you were able to relativize and contexualize their abusive behaviour. And certainly no one could blame you for walking away from religion. My own experience is in the reverse direction: I freed myself from my parents atheism, which, while certainly well-intended and sincere, was not suitable for me. I certainly don't despise atheism. I'm just looking to see if there are any people out there who are looking for a way out of it.
 
The main idea is to reject particularism (self, family, tribe, nation) and embrace universalism. The charged word "hate" is excellent in that it leaves no ambiguity as to the intended polarity.
...and of course, 'cheesemakers' refers to all manufacturers of dairy produce.
 
I learned a new -ism. You can never have enough -isms.

AI Overview
Particularism is the belief or practice that prioritizes particular, localized interests, identities, or contexts over universal rules or abstract principles. It opposes "universalism" and manifests across different fields, emphasizing that context, culture, or specific group identities should dictate our judgments, decisions, and moral frameworks.

The irony is from past posts NR is trying to create his own tribe. He follows the narrow views of an obscure dead writer.
 
I learned a new -ism. You can never have enough -isms.

AI Overview
Particularism is the belief or practice that prioritizes particular, localized interests, identities, or contexts over universal rules or abstract principles. It opposes "universalism" and manifests across different fields, emphasizing that context, culture, or specific group identities should dictate our judgments, decisions, and moral frameworks.

The irony is from past posts NR is trying to create his own tribe. He follows the narrow views of an obscure dead writer.
We aspiring universalists are a noble and elite breed.;)

One day, all mankind will be like us.;)
 

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.-LK 14:26

Do you really think this alleged quote is a good advertisement for Christ or Christianity? :unsure:
as I said up thread, we do not know what Jesus said or even if there was a "Jesus".
 
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