Amnesty International lead investigator: "victims" lie to human rights investigators

[Loren Pechtel]

http://phap.org/thematic-notes/2014...ng-and-fact-finding-during-and-after-armed-co

Fear can lead victims and witnesses to withhold evidence or give deliberately erroneous accounts of incidents. In Gaza, I received partial or inaccurate information by relatives of civilians accidentally killed in accidental explosions or by rockets launched by Palestinian armed groups towards Israel that had malfunctioned and of civilians killed by Israeli strikes on nearby Palestinian armed groups’ positions. When confronted with other evidence obtained separately, some said they feared reprisals by the armed groups.

They're saying what they're told to, not the truth.


She also has one point that surprises me:

For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines. The difference means little to panicked civilians often forced out of their homes by fear, but is vastly important to investigators.

 

[laughing dog]

http://phap.org/thematic-notes/2014...ng-and-fact-finding-during-and-after-armed-co



They're saying what they're told to, not the truth.


She also has one point that surprises me:

For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines. The difference means little to panicked civilians often forced out of their homes by fear, but is vastly important to investigators.

Since victims lie to investigators, does the mean we also can conclude the Israeli victims lie to investigators as well?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

http://phap.org/thematic-notes/2014...ng-and-fact-finding-during-and-after-armed-co



They're saying what they're told to, not the truth.


She also has one point that surprises me:

For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines. The difference means little to panicked civilians often forced out of their homes by fear, but is vastly important to investigators.

Since victims lie to investigators, does the mean we also can conclude the Israeli victims lie to investigators as well?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://phap.org/thematic-notes/2014...ng-and-fact-finding-during-and-after-armed-co



They're saying what they're told to, not the truth.


She also has one point that surprises me:

For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines. The difference means little to panicked civilians often forced out of their homes by fear, but is vastly important to investigators.

Since victims lie to investigators, does the mean we also can conclude the Israeli victims lie to investigators as well?

How about actually addressing the point rather than trying to change the topic?

 

[laughing dog]

http://phap.org/thematic-notes/2014...ng-and-fact-finding-during-and-after-armed-co



They're saying what they're told to, not the truth.


She also has one point that surprises me:

For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines. The difference means little to panicked civilians often forced out of their homes by fear, but is vastly important to investigators.

Since victims lie to investigators, does the mean we also can conclude the Israeli victims lie to investigators as well?

How about actually addressing the point rather than trying to change the topic?

I did address the topic of victims lying to investigators. What word(s) did you not understand?

 

[bilby]

Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://phap.org/thematic-notes/2014...ng-and-fact-finding-during-and-after-armed-co



They're saying what they're told to, not the truth.


She also has one point that surprises me:

For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines. The difference means little to panicked civilians often forced out of their homes by fear, but is vastly important to investigators.

Since victims lie to investigators, does the mean we also can conclude the Israeli victims lie to investigators as well?

How about actually addressing the point rather than trying to change the topic?

I did address the topic of victims lying to investigators. What word(s) did you not understand?

Amnesty International isn't investigating things that happen to Jews. Thus it's irrelevant to the point and just a derail.

 

[bilby]

Amnesty International isn't investigating things that happen to Jews. Thus it's irrelevant to the point and just a derail.

As I mentioned; EVERYBODY lies.

From a 2002 article in the J Weekly:

"There is no excuse for human rights abuse whether in the name of security or in the name of liberation," Irene Khan, Amnesty's secretary-general, said Monday.

Khan said that the Palestinian Authority and armed Palestinian groups have a responsibility under international law to protect the rights of civilians.

Khan, who also toured the Jenin refugee camp on her visit to the region, came to a Tel Aviv hospital Monday and talked with two Israelis recovering from Palestinian attacks.

Amnesty International investigates human rights abuses. By anyone, against anyone.

That your favourite team got caught breaking the rules does not mean the referees are biased, and claiming that they are is just poor sportsmanship.

 

[Arctish]

From the linked article:

Those mentioned above are only some of the many challenges of MRF in conflict situations. Much has changed in the way MRF is conducted in the 100 years since what is considered one of the first formal MRF initiatives.2 The tools available today are infinitely greater: international law defining violations, expert bodies to interpret it, trained experts in disciplines crucial for effective investigations, mapping and data-management software, and much more. While investigation systems, methodologies, and mechanisms for MRF continue to evolve and improve, some things remain unchanged – in particular the need for rigour and impartiality.

So AI investigators are aware that sometimes witnesses lie or unwittingly pass along erroneous information, and are therefore careful to research witness claims before publishing them. This isn't news, and it isn't reason to doubt everything groups like Amnesty International say.

 

[laughing dog]

http://phap.org/thematic-notes/2014...ng-and-fact-finding-during-and-after-armed-co



They're saying what they're told to, not the truth.


She also has one point that surprises me:

For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines. The difference means little to panicked civilians often forced out of their homes by fear, but is vastly important to investigators.

Since victims lie to investigators, does the mean we also can conclude the Israeli victims lie to investigators as well?

u
How about actually addressing the point rather than trying to change the topic?

I did address the topic of victims lying to investigators. What word(s) did you not understand?

Amnesty International isn't investigating things that happen to Jews. Thus it's irrelevant to the point and just a derail.

You are quoting AI that victims lie. Why on earth would anyone think that such a general statement would pertain to a specific group of victims or that asking about the extent of the validity of the general claim is irrelevant? It seems you will go to any lengths to avoid dealing with relevant but unpleasant topics.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

From the linked article:

Those mentioned above are only some of the many challenges of MRF in conflict situations. Much has changed in the way MRF is conducted in the 100 years since what is considered one of the first formal MRF initiatives.2 The tools available today are infinitely greater: international law defining violations, expert bodies to interpret it, trained experts in disciplines crucial for effective investigations, mapping and data-management software, and much more. While investigation systems, methodologies, and mechanisms for MRF continue to evolve and improve, some things remain unchanged – in particular the need for rigour and impartiality.

So AI investigators are aware that sometimes witnesses lie or unwittingly pass along erroneous information, and are therefore careful to research witness claims before publishing them. This isn't news, and it isn't reason to doubt everything groups like Amnesty International say.

They generally have no way of researching the claims other than talking to other witnesses--that would likely also be intimidated into the party line.

 

[Arctish]

So AI investigators are aware that sometimes witnesses lie or unwittingly pass along erroneous information, and are therefore careful to research witness claims before publishing them. This isn't news, and it isn't reason to doubt everything groups like Amnesty International say.

They generally have no way of researching the claims other than talking to other witnesses--that would likely also be intimidated into the party line.

That's not what the article says.

 

[Underseer]

So AI investigators are aware that sometimes witnesses lie or unwittingly pass along erroneous information, and are therefore careful to research witness claims before publishing them. This isn't news, and it isn't reason to doubt everything groups like Amnesty International say.

They generally have no way of researching the claims other than talking to other witnesses--that would likely also be intimidated into the party line.

That's not what the article says.

Is the article talking about Jews? Because that would affect whether or not the article is correct.

 

[laughing dog]

Amnesty International isn't investigating things that happen to Jews. Thus it's irrelevant to the point and just a derail.

Um, AI does investigate things that happen to Israelis (example, http://livewire.amnesty.org/2012/11/27/investigating-rocket-attacks-in-israel/), so please stop evading the question.