Rashida Tlaib is still hung up on Michael Brown 12 years later

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, I remember lies about Brown breaking the officers orbital bone to insist that the assault on the officer was brutal and lethal self-defense was clearly justified.

We all know that immediately after something like this happens a lot of rumors start twirling, including the "hands up" nonsense. Sure, Brown did not break any bones, but he did attack Wilson. A police officer doesn't have to wait until the perp literally breaks his facial bones in order to be allowed to use lethal force.

The allegation out of the gate was brutal force was used against the officer. And this was alleged to justify lethal force in obvious self-defense. Those rumors set the foundation for the pro-Brown being dead team.

What happened in Ferguson was very gray, not black and white.

Not really. We have a young man who robbed a convenience store and then attacked a police officer. He was shot dead.

And we continue to see labels being used to justify death. The guy allegedly stole a couple things from a convenience store. That isn't right, but it isn't a capital crime, this isn't North Korea! An officer interacted with the person in a manner that is needlessly adversarial. Don't treat people like humans, you might get an inhuman response. Again, doesn't make what Brown does right, but there are contexts that feed into the events that occurred and led to the person's death.

The lie about him raising his hands up in surrender infuriated the mob which then proceeded to burn, loot and generally riot. This then repeated itself months later when the grand jury rightly decided not to indict the officer and Brown's mother's boyfriend called for the mob to "burn this bitch down".

Yes, the guy said something real stupid in a moment of intense grief. The riot... was the result of the death on top of the adversarial slow burn between the civilian population and the police.

So, to sum up: the Michael Brown shooting was justified - not gray.

A civilian being killed by an officer must and only must be in a situation where the life and safety of the officer is imminently imperiled by the actions of that other person. You haven't demonstrated that at all.

The looting/burning/rioting was not justified - not gray.

Looting, burning, rioting isn't justified, but you clearly are unaware of the social conditions in such a community that led to such anger existing before the killing. Outcomes don't have to be justified or correct in order for the underlying causes to be real and true.

Then the only damage would have been the graze wound on his thumb and a trip to the county jail for assault and robbery charges.

And had the officer been trained properly, there wouldn't necessarily have been an incident in the first place. Brown isn't dead, store is compensated, some legal agreement is had, no riots.

 

[bilby]

Yeah, the death penalty is reserved for treason, premeditated murder, and being slightly annoying to a police officer.

After all these years, you still fail to comprehend the difference between death penalty (a judicial punishment) and shooting somebody in self defense.

Self defence requires the use of minimum necessary force. Lethal force is almost never justified in self defence.

And a shooting by a police officer is a denial of due process, in the way that a shooting in self defence by a person without a badge is not.

Police have a duty to ensure that those they accuse are allowed due process, with a view to judicial punishment if appropriate, which is not a call a police officer has the authority to make.

 

[thebeave]

Well, I remember lies about Brown breaking the officers orbital bone to insist that the assault on the officer was brutal and lethal self-defense was clearly justified.

We all know that immediately after something like this happens a lot of rumors start twirling, including the "hands up" nonsense. Sure, Brown did not break any bones, but he did attack Wilson. A police officer doesn't have to wait until the perp literally breaks his facial bones in order to be allowed to use lethal force.

The allegation out of the gate was brutal force was used against the officer. And this was alleged to justify lethal force in obvious self-defense. Those rumors set the foundation for the pro-Brown being dead team.

What happened in Ferguson was very gray, not black and white.

Not really. We have a young man who robbed a convenience store and then attacked a police officer. He was shot dead.

And we continue to see labels being used to justify death. The guy allegedly stole a couple things from a convenience store. That isn't right, but it isn't a capital crime, this isn't North Korea! An officer interacted with the person in a manner that is needlessly adversarial. Don't treat people like humans, you might get an inhuman response. Again, doesn't make what Brown does right, but there are contexts that feed into the events that occurred and led to the person's death.

The lie about him raising his hands up in surrender infuriated the mob which then proceeded to burn, loot and generally riot. This then repeated itself months later when the grand jury rightly decided not to indict the officer and Brown's mother's boyfriend called for the mob to "burn this bitch down".

Yes, the guy said something real stupid in a moment of intense grief. The riot... was the result of the death on top of the adversarial slow burn between the civilian population and the police.

So, to sum up: the Michael Brown shooting was justified - not gray.

A civilian being killed by an officer must and only must be in a situation where the life and safety of the officer is imminently imperiled by the actions of that other person. You haven't demonstrated that at all.

The looting/burning/rioting was not justified - not gray.

Looting, burning, rioting isn't justified, but you clearly are unaware of the social conditions in such a community that led to such anger existing before the killing. Outcomes don't have to be justified or correct in order for the underlying causes to be real and true.

Then the only damage would have been the graze wound on his thumb and a trip to the county jail for assault and robbery charges.

And had the officer been trained properly, there wouldn't necessarily have been an incident in the first place. Brown isn't dead, store is compensated, some legal agreement is had, no riots.

Key findings in the DOJ report on Darren Wilson

WASHINGTON — A federal investigation that cleared a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer for killing Michael Brown concluded that the physical evidence and credible witnesses all bolster the officer’s account that he feared for his life when he fatally shot the black 18-year-old.

The Department of Justice released an 86-page report Wednesday summarizing its reasons for not charging former officer Darren Wilson, who is white, with a federal civil-rights violation for the Aug. 9 shooting that sparked protests in the St. Louis area and across the nation.

“Multiple credible witnesses corroborate virtually every material aspect of Wilson’s account and are consistent with the physical evidence,” the report said.

There is an 86 page report by the DOJ you can download and read if you want all the gory details, or if don't trust the above summary. This report was completed under the Obama/Holder (two African Americans with liberal leanings) administration. If you have time, maybe you could email the DOJ report link to Talib, Harris, Warren, et al who apparently, and have not gotten the memo (literally) after over 10 years.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Key findings in the DOJ report on Darren Wilson

WASHINGTON — A federal investigation that cleared a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer for killing Michael Brown concluded that the physical evidence and credible witnesses all bolster the officer’s account that he feared for his life when he fatally shot the black 18-year-old.

The Department of Justice released an 86-page report Wednesday summarizing its reasons for not charging former officer Darren Wilson, who is white, with a federal civil-rights violation for the Aug. 9 shooting that sparked protests in the St. Louis area and across the nation.

“Multiple credible witnesses corroborate virtually every material aspect of Wilson’s account and are consistent with the physical evidence,” the report said.

There is an 86 page report by the DOJ you can download and read if you want all the gory details, or if don't trust the above summary. This report was completed under the Obama/Holder (two African Americans with liberal leanings) administration. If you have time, maybe you could email the DOJ report link to Talib, Harris, Warren, et al who apparently, and have not gotten the memo (literally) after over 10 years.

Maybe next time you can read my post and reply to what I said. All people like you want to do is look at the shooting within the bubble of the trigger being pulled. Wilson didn't murder Brown. Brown shouldn't be dead. These two statements can coexist in this world.

Actual link to the DOJ report. The DOJ reported on more than just the killing. They concluded the environment was polarized and untrusting between the citizens and the police. And that certainly contributed to what happened that day.

 

[Politesse]

There is an 86 page report by the DOJ you can download and read if you want all the gory details, or if don't trust the above summary. This report was completed under the Obama/Holder (two African Americans with liberal leanings) administration.

If that report had found that a murder occurred, would you accept that finding without question?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is an 86 page report by the DOJ you can download and read if you want all the gory details, or if don't trust the above summary. This report was completed under the Obama/Holder (two African Americans with liberal leanings) administration.

If that report had found that a murder occurred, would you accept that finding without question?

Probably not, but that doesn't negate the significance of the DoJ report. Brown did some stuff he should not have done, with varying levels of risk from said actions. How much was Brown's natural attitude verses how much was the adversarial relationship between the police and the people? That is the major consideration here. Can the officer have involved himself better (had waited for backup, spoke more respectfully as a steward of peace instead of what could be implied as more authortative)?

In a sane world, walking on the street and stealing a few smokes shouldn't lead to a situation where a gun is becoming involved.

 

[thebeave]

Key findings in the DOJ report on Darren Wilson

WASHINGTON — A federal investigation that cleared a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer for killing Michael Brown concluded that the physical evidence and credible witnesses all bolster the officer’s account that he feared for his life when he fatally shot the black 18-year-old.

The Department of Justice released an 86-page report Wednesday summarizing its reasons for not charging former officer Darren Wilson, who is white, with a federal civil-rights violation for the Aug. 9 shooting that sparked protests in the St. Louis area and across the nation.

“Multiple credible witnesses corroborate virtually every material aspect of Wilson’s account and are consistent with the physical evidence,” the report said.

There is an 86 page report by the DOJ you can download and read if you want all the gory details, or if don't trust the above summary. This report was completed under the Obama/Holder (two African Americans with liberal leanings) administration. If you have time, maybe you could email the DOJ report link to Talib, Harris, Warren, et al who apparently, and have not gotten the memo (literally) after over 10 years.

Maybe next time you can read my post and reply to what I said. All people like you want to do is look at the shooting within the bubble of the trigger being pulled. Wilson didn't murder Brown. Brown shouldn't be dead. These two statements can coexist in this world.

Actual link to the DOJ report. The DOJ reported on more than just the killing. They concluded the environment was polarized and untrusting between the citizens and the police. And that certainly contributed to what happened that day.

You said several things that are inconsistent with the actual events, which is why I linked to the summary and the report. For one thing:

The guy allegedly stole a couple things from a convenience store. That isn't right, but it isn't a capital crime, this isn't North Korea! An officer interacted with the person in a manner that is needlessly adversarial. Don't treat people like humans, you might get an inhuman response.

He wasn't shot and killed because of the robbery at the convenience store, like you said. Read page 12+ of the report. After an earlier scuffle in which he assaulted Wilson and tried to grab his gun, Brown started running towards Wilson in a rage and was only a second or two away from Brown when Wilson shot him. The person who acted in a manner that was needlessly adverserial from the get-go was Brown. Wilson was merely asking him to stop walking in the middle of the street, when there was a sidewalk.

A civilian being killed by an officer must and only must be in a situation where the life and safety of the officer is imminently imperiled by the actions of that other person. You haven't demonstrated that at all.

The DOJ report demonstrates it pretty clearly, which is why I mentioned it. You seemed to have not known that.