How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Note: Just looking at the screen, I haven't watched it.

You want to appear threatening and you complain about people being afraid of you?! You can't have it both ways.

This is not my channel.
YouTube is a video hosting service, not a picture one.
And I don't find that picture threatening.

 

[barbos]

Russian space shuttle .. hmm we must have copied it.

Actually you did. Not shuttle but that thing which are actually flying now.
Yes, Buran was coppied because Brezhenev told engineers that he wants it too.
And they successfully "copied" it.

And then did nothing with it, just let it rot.

Well, the Soviet economy crashed due to badly flawed economic model, rampart corruption and widespread theft of state property, and military spending well beyond their means. They did nothing with it because they run out of money so badly that they could not even afford to remove snow from the roof of the hangar the thing was stored in - which lead to the roof collapsing and destroying the shuttle.

As for the current Russian economy, it is suffering from flawed economic model, rampart corruption and theft of public proprerty, and military spending they cannot afford. It is not hard to guess where they are heading.

Your point?

 

[Ovazor]

Well, the Soviet economy crashed due to badly flawed economic model, rampart corruption and widespread theft of state property, and military spending well beyond their means. They did nothing with it because they run out of money so badly that they could not even afford to remove snow from the roof of the hangar the thing was stored in - which lead to the roof collapsing and destroying the shuttle.

As for the current Russian economy, it is suffering from flawed economic model, rampart corruption and theft of public proprerty, and military spending they cannot afford. It is not hard to guess where they are heading.

Your point?

I was just pointing out the on-going North Koreanization of Russia.

 

[barbos]

Well, the Soviet economy crashed due to badly flawed economic model, rampart corruption and widespread theft of state property, and military spending well beyond their means. They did nothing with it because they run out of money so badly that they could not even afford to remove snow from the roof of the hangar the thing was stored in - which lead to the roof collapsing and destroying the shuttle.

As for the current Russian economy, it is suffering from flawed economic model, rampart corruption and theft of public proprerty, and military spending they cannot afford. It is not hard to guess where they are heading.

Your point?

I was just pointing out the on-going North Koreanization of Russia.

North Korea is actually doing pretty well and no we are not North Koreanizating. We are chinizating.
North Korea is too, albeit less visibly.

 

[barbos]

 

[Ovazor]

Well, the Soviet economy crashed due to badly flawed economic model, rampart corruption and widespread theft of state property, and military spending well beyond their means. They did nothing with it because they run out of money so badly that they could not even afford to remove snow from the roof of the hangar the thing was stored in - which lead to the roof collapsing and destroying the shuttle.

As for the current Russian economy, it is suffering from flawed economic model, rampart corruption and theft of public proprerty, and military spending they cannot afford. It is not hard to guess where they are heading.

Your point?

I was just pointing out the on-going North Koreanization of Russia.

North Korea is actually doing pretty well and no we are not North Koreanizating. We are chinizating.
North Korea is too, albeit less visibly.

North Korea is an economic dead-end with GDP about $1500 per capita, and which suffers a hunger crisis every time the harvest is poor. Not to say a brutal dictatorship with regular Stalin-style purges and a military which is a serious millstone around its neck while being so outdated that it has no hope of winning an actual war. Hardly an inspiring model.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Russian space shuttle .. hmm we must have copied it.

Actually you did. Not shuttle but that thing which are actually flying now.
Yes, Buran was coppied because Brezhenev told engineers that he wants it too.
And they successfully "copied" it.

And then did nothing with it, just let it rot.

Well, the Soviet economy crashed due to badly flawed economic model, rampart corruption and widespread theft of state property, and military spending well beyond their means. They did nothing with it because they run out of money so badly that they could not even afford to remove snow from the roof of the hangar the thing was stored in - which lead to the roof collapsing and destroying the shuttle.

As for the current Russian economy, it is suffering from flawed economic model, rampart corruption and theft of public proprerty, and military spending they cannot afford. It is not hard to guess where they are heading.

Also suffering from rampant theft of military assets.

I suspect that the most impactful modern military innovation was when the US army shifted to a model where soldiers need to buy their own equipment on the open market. Whatever money they don't spend they get to keep. Genius. Now most armies have the same model. I imagine this single innovation have saved tremendous amount of money for the US army, allowing them to use more funds on the spectacular and expensive bangy stuff.

Russia uses the old model. They don't want to change it, because the generals would become very unhappy if they can't embezzle military equipent, and Putin wants to keep them happy. Dictators have always struggled beating democracies. It's not because democracies have better moral. It's because dictatorships always turn into corrupt dysfunctional shit shows.

Brings to mind general Omar Bradley paraphrasing Napoleon; "Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.”

 

[barbos]

Well, the Soviet economy crashed due to badly flawed economic model, rampart corruption and widespread theft of state property, and military spending well beyond their means. They did nothing with it because they run out of money so badly that they could not even afford to remove snow from the roof of the hangar the thing was stored in - which lead to the roof collapsing and destroying the shuttle.

As for the current Russian economy, it is suffering from flawed economic model, rampart corruption and theft of public proprerty, and military spending they cannot afford. It is not hard to guess where they are heading.

Your point?

I was just pointing out the on-going North Koreanization of Russia.

North Korea is actually doing pretty well and no we are not North Koreanizating. We are chinizating.
North Korea is too, albeit less visibly.

North Korea is an economic dead-end with GDP about $1500 per capita, and which suffers a hunger crisis every time the harvest is poor. Not to say a brutal dictatorship with regular Stalin-style purges and a military which is a serious millstone around its neck while being so outdated that it has no hope of winning an actual war. Hardly an inspiring model.

You keep living in 1990s

 

[ZiprHead]

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 27, 2026

CIA Director John Ratcliffe's visit to Moscow suggests Russia may be preparing to act against a NATO member to invalidate NATO's Article 5.

understandingwar.org

US Central Intelligence Agency Director John Ratcliffe’s visit to Moscow suggests that Russia may be preparing to conduct an act of aggression against a NATO member in the relatively near term to invalidate NATO’s Article 5. A near-term Russian attack is highly unlikely to involve a full-scale conventional invasion of a NATO state. Ratcliffe delivered a warning to Russia not to attack NATO countries according to “sources briefed on the matter” cited by the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) on August 26.[1] Ratcliffe warned Russian officials not to escalate conflict with the US’ NATO allies, particularly Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, according to two “sources familiar with the matter” cited by Politico on August 26.[2] Ratcliffe’s arrival in Moscow on a C-17 military transport aircraft and his use of an American motorcade suggest that the US regarded the intelligence it had as reasonably urgent and sensitive and not merely warning of a distant threat.

Bolding from the article.

 

[ZiprHead]

Wow! Jeffrey Sachs is privy to top secret NATO plans. How did he accomplish this great feat?

What does "destroy Russia" even mean?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Look at the pictures of how poorly it handles rough seas. Think the radars would do a good job of tracking sea skimmers when they're getting splashed? (Yeah, it's exposed naval equipment, salt water isn't going to do harm. But it's going to cause interference.) Think that might have something to do with it's promotion to submarine?

The Moskva was designed in the 1970's and launched put in service in 1983. It was designed for the previous generation of threats to ships, aircraft, air to ground missiles, etc. There's a good chance that what anti-missile defenses it had, were not functioning.

Getting hit by two missiles doesn't help buoyancy, but the actual sinking can be laid on poor Russian damage control, and the general condition of the ship before the strike.

Yeah, poor damage control is why it went down. I'm saying that the reason they got at least one of two missiles through the defenses of an anti-air cruiser (it's effectively a missile cruiser with some helicopter capacity) was likely that the poor sea handling meant it couldn't see/track them. And Ukraine clearly knew the problem, otherwise they wouldn't have fired two missiles at a ship that on paper should easily have been able to swat them from the sky.

And I'm questioning the big differences I'm seeing in the photos.

 

[Ovazor]

Yeah, poor damage control is why it went down. I'm saying that the reason they got at least one of two missiles through the defenses of an anti-air cruiser (it's effectively a missile cruiser with some helicopter capacity) was likely that the poor sea handling meant it couldn't see/track them. And Ukraine clearly knew the problem, otherwise they wouldn't have fired two missiles at a ship that on paper should easily have been able to swat them from the sky.

And I'm questioning the big differences I'm seeing in the photos.

You should be seeing big differences. The photos you are watching depict a different ship.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Look at the pictures of how poorly it handles rough seas. Think the radars would do a good job of tracking sea skimmers when they're getting splashed? (Yeah, it's exposed naval equipment, salt water isn't going to do harm. But it's going to cause interference.) Think that might have something to do with it's promotion to submarine?

The Moskva was designed in the 1970's and launched put in service in 1983. It was designed for the previous generation of threats to ships, aircraft, air to ground missiles, etc. There's a good chance that what anti-missile defenses it had, were not functioning.

Getting hit by two missiles doesn't help buoyancy, but the actual sinking can be laid on poor Russian damage control, and the general condition of the ship before the strike.

Yeah, poor damage control is why it went down. I'm saying that the reason they got at least one of two missiles through the defenses of an anti-air cruiser (it's effectively a missile cruiser with some helicopter capacity) was likely that the poor sea handling meant it couldn't see/track them. And Ukraine clearly knew the problem, otherwise they wouldn't have fired two missiles at a ship that on paper should easily have been able to swat them from the sky.

And I'm questioning the big differences I'm seeing in the photos.

Undoubtedly. I've done plenty of DC maintenance and I was always unfortunate enough to be assigned to old ships. Water tight doors on old ships do not seal. They warp over time, be it from the ship flexing or the doors being constantly slammed or both. On a quick acting water tight door (single handle) you'd have to adjust the door dogs to the point of the door sometimes being near impossible to open in order to get a good seal. And even then, you're just gonna wear the striker plates down to a skid mark in a hurry and you're right back where you started from. None of these door gaskets will pass a chalk test. The only solution is to cut out and replace the entire door and frame. An expense that is always first to be cut from the budget.
The Moskva was a Potemkin ship. It had no business being afloat.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russia is preparing to "enlist" another 600,000 soldiers to prepare another major offensive on Ukraine ahead of the upcoming elections.

Discussions of attacks on Estonia to try to trigger article 5 of of the NATO agreement of mutual protection getting broken.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Russia is preparing to "enlist" another 600,000 soldiers to prepare another major offensive on Ukraine ahead of the upcoming elections.

Discussions of attacks on Estonia to try to trigger article 5 of of the NATO agreement of mutual protection getting broken.

Yea, but Iran is bigger threat as they may have the means for a nuclear bomb within 15 years.

 

[Harry Bosch]

On a day that Russian politicans are opening calling on Putin to nuke Ukraine while simultaneously threating to attack NATO, the finance chief of Russia was invited by Trump to speak to the G20:

MSN

Are you are kidding me? This is outrageous. No fucking economic concessions to Russia in the tiniest amount until they stop their war on the world.

 

[Tigers!]

Russia is preparing to "enlist" another 600,000 soldiers to prepare another major offensive on Ukraine ahead of the upcoming elections.

Wonder if Barbos is on their list? Can we suggest him as a true believer in greater Russia?

Discussions of attacks on Estonia to try to trigger article 5 of of the NATO agreement of mutual protection getting broken.

 

[ZiprHead]

India's Modi tells Russia's Putin that the war in Ukraine must end for humanity's sake

Yup, that'll do it.

 

[barbos]

Wow! Jeffrey Sachs is privy to top secret NATO plans. How did he accomplish this great feat?

He asked me. Seriously, since when NATO plans were secrets to anyone with IQ over 90?

What does "destroy Russia" even mean?

Have 90s back

 

[barbos]