England headed for A Caliphate

[DrZoidberg]

What the hell is Europe doing?

Western Europe is slowly being invaded by the muslim hordes. I actually thought France would be the first to fall but I think England may fall first. And looking at the players Germany fielded the other day, they won’t be far behind. Danke Merkel.

You do understand people like yourself and derec have been saying this for over 2 fucking decades right?

For fucks sake just wake me up when your doomsday wet dream comes about. I reckon it will happen 4 weeks after the yellow peril I was warned when I was a kid comes about.

Islam plays the long game. It is no more apocalypse tomorrow than climate change is. But not being apocalypse tomorrow doesn't mean it's not a serious problem.

What? What plan? Islam isn't a conspiracy. There's no game. There's no plan. The behaviour of Muslims, on population level, is simply a result of the belief system.

Yes, dealing with Islam, in a western liberal democratic context is a problem. But that's not because Muslims are trying to be difficult or are particularly adversarial. I think, for most part, they're trying really hard not to.

i think the problem is just more fundamental. Western liberal culture has a foundation in Christianity. Its just a different way to think than Islam. It just creates problems, even when people are trying not to. Its not a problem of malice or even ignorance. Its just two systems of thought that are mismatched imho

The Heritage foundation and our national pastor Doug Wilson disagree with your view of Christianity as the foundation of western liberal culture. I think I agree with them on this point.

The atheist historian Tom Holland disagrees. Have we name dropped enough now?

Here's a good video on it





Atheists, liberals, socialists and scientists are still behaving like Christians even though they have largely moved on regarding belief in God.

The evangelising urge is the big one. The rest of the world just cares about gaining power.

And that those at the bottom of the status hierarchy are worthy of dignity. Modern liberal democracy wouldn't be possible without a Christian way of thinking.

BTW, Islam and Christianity both agree on the above. Their differences are about other things.

Western liberal culture is antithetical to the religion running the GOP.

Yes, its a fair point. Trump seems more pagan. Ie, its all about power and the powerful deserving more respect simply because they are powerful.

 

[bilby]

The RNLI is not the UK government.

It's a volunteer organisation and charity dedicated to saving lives endangered at sea.

Any lives.

If that upsets anyone, they seriously need to recallibrate their moral compass, as it is likely that they are a sick, evil, cruel, fuck.

Your lack of paying attention to what's happening is showing.

Your lack of humanity and compassion is leading you to misdiagnose my lacks.

There should have been no rescue.

The RNLI is dedicated to saving lives endangered at sea.

Any lives.

Neither they, nor I, subscribe to the inhumane and dehumanising axioms of your twisted and cruel philosophy.

The thing is they knowingly set out on an impossible mission expecting to be rescued.

Evidence?

You knowingly put yourself in the path of certain peril to obligate me to help you?

Nobody did that. But the RNLI help anyone who is in peril on the sea. They don't refuse to help people just because they were too dumb to stay out of trouble, or because they use their psychic powers to determine that they got into trouble on purpose.

Something that neither they, nor you, can possibly know on a case by case basis, prior to actually rescuing somebody.

No way.

Indeed. You have no way to know what you just confidently asserted, and used as an excuse to watch people die.

But then, to you there were no individual people being rescued, just a bunch of interchangeable and identical representatives of a "them" you have pre-judged and passed a capital sentence against.

Forum rules prohibit me from accurately expressing my opinion of you and your morally bankrupt recommendation.

 

[Patooka]

Forum rules prohibit me from accurately expressing my opinion of you and your morally bankrupt recommendation.

Quoted for accuracy. I don't want anyone to suffer under a "Pacific Island Solution".

 

[Bomb#20]

Atheists, liberals, socialists and scientists are still behaving like Christians even though they have largely moved on regarding belief in God.

The evangelising urge is the big one. The rest of the world just cares about gaining power.

And that those at the bottom of the status hierarchy are worthy of dignity. Modern liberal democracy wouldn't be possible without a Christian way of thinking.

Ever have one of those bosses who takes credit for his underlings' accomplishments but their screwups are never his fault? Christian theology is based on that principle in spades; you can earn your way into Hell with your sins but you can't earn your way into Heaven with your works so you need Jesus' grace to redeem you. Well, that's all myth -- the God character is just an extrapolation of ancient despots' typical behavior -- but for seventeen hundred years Christianity was western civilization's real life boss, and the real boss well learned the lesson of its fictional boss. Christianity takes credit and denies blame for whatever the people it ruled were doing for whatever reason. The charity is Christianity but the Inquisition isn't its fault. And Christianity isn't even original. People have been pointing out that the Christ story was plagiarized since forever, most famously The Golden Bough's list of dying-and-rising gods in ancient myths. Joseph Campbell pointed out several other elements of the story that were copied as well.

All this should be familiar to atheists. So given that context, why the heck would we take it seriously when Christianity tries to take credit for caring about more than power and for those at the bottom of the status hierarchy being worthy of dignity? Shouldn't we suspect those were plagiarized too? Funny story about that...

Alcidamas: The First Ancient Greek Voice Declaring ‘Nature Made No One a Slave’ - GreekReporter.com

Alcidamas condemned slavery in Ancient Greek society, arguing it violates human nature and exposes the artificiality of social hierarchies.

greekreporter.com

 

[scombrid]

What the hell is Europe doing?

Western Europe is slowly being invaded by the muslim hordes. I actually thought France would be the first to fall but I think England may fall first. And looking at the players Germany fielded the other day, they won’t be far behind. Danke Merkel.

You do understand people like yourself and derec have been saying this for over 2 fucking decades right?

For fucks sake just wake me up when your doomsday wet dream comes about. I reckon it will happen 4 weeks after the yellow peril I was warned when I was a kid comes about.

Islam plays the long game. It is no more apocalypse tomorrow than climate change is. But not being apocalypse tomorrow doesn't mean it's not a serious problem.

What? What plan? Islam isn't a conspiracy. There's no game. There's no plan. The behaviour of Muslims, on population level, is simply a result of the belief system.

Yes, dealing with Islam, in a western liberal democratic context is a problem. But that's not because Muslims are trying to be difficult or are particularly adversarial. I think, for most part, they're trying really hard not to.

i think the problem is just more fundamental. Western liberal culture has a foundation in Christianity. Its just a different way to think than Islam. It just creates problems, even when people are trying not to. Its not a problem of malice or even ignorance. Its just two systems of thought that are mismatched imho

The Heritage foundation and our national pastor Doug Wilson disagree with your view of Christianity as the foundation of western liberal culture. I think I agree with them on this point.

The atheist historian Tom Holland disagrees. Have we name dropped enough now?

Here's a good video on it





Atheists, liberals, socialists and scientists are still behaving like Christians even though they have largely moved on regarding belief in God.

The evangelising urge is the big one. The rest of the world just cares about gaining power.

And that those at the bottom of the status hierarchy are worthy of dignity. Modern liberal democracy wouldn't be possible without a Christian way of thinking.

BTW, Islam and Christianity both agree on the above. Their differences are about other things.

Western liberal culture is antithetical to the religion running the GOP.

Yes, its a fair point. Trump seems more pagan. Ie, its all about power and the powerful deserving more respect simply because they are powerful.

Tom Holland is engaging in interesting apologetics that is ignoring true Christianity. Not sure why but it is silly given what actual Christians do and want to do in this country and have done in the past.

 

[scombrid]

Holland really engages in some amazing arm flapping hand waving around slavery and conquistadors. His apologetics notwithstanding, the Heritage Foundation doctrinal view of Christianity is running out federal government and is quite illiberal. So I’d say on the name dropping front that their flavor of Christianity is the truth for our purposes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Give me a break, it is you who literally supports Al Qaeda in Africa in order to attack chiristians.

I am pretty confident that @Loren Pechtel doesn't support Al Qaeda in Africa, or indeed, anywhere else.

Does your propagandist job come with long shoes, baggy pants, and a red prosthetic nose supplied; Or are you expected to provide your own?

That's probably what Russia is telling it's people, so don't be too harsh.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This guy got caught.

But what about the Omani guy--his own government wouldn't let him fly because of his extremism. Somehow FlyDubai let him be a pilot. And then he botched it, failed to actually kill the captain and the captain managed to open the door. He then tried to crash the plane (his original intention was to 9/11 Tel Aviv airport) but the passengers got to him in time. And there was another flight crew on board that was able to bring the crippled jet down safely.

Well, what about him? He wasn't in England; He wasn't going to England; He wasn't even likely to ever visit England as part of his job (FZ are a short-haul operation).

What about his case affects England in any way whatsoever? As an Omani living in the UAE, it would be slightly unusual for him not to be a Muslim; As a pilot for FlyDubai, it is extraordinarily unusual that he was a terrorist, which is why his case is international news.

"Islamic extremists are rare, but surprisingly not entirely nonexistent, in the UAE aviation community" is a very difficult fact from which to build the conclusion "...therefore England is at risk of becoming a Caliphate". I would be very interested to see how you get there, from there.

Does Primark UK employ a lot of security guards who are former UAE airline pilots?

Or is your unstated argument simply along the lines of "Muslim extremists exist, therefore we should all be terrified of all Muslims all the time"?

The problem is you refuse to see the danger posed by the extremists. This particular one was nowhere near England but that doesn't mean the next one won't be. The size of the threat is related to how much effort is being spent on radicalization, not on whatever the targets have supposedly done.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What the hell is Europe doing?

Western Europe is slowly being invaded by the muslim hordes. I actually thought France would be the first to fall but I think England may fall first. And looking at the players Germany fielded the other day, they won’t be far behind. Danke Merkel.

You do understand people like yourself and derec have been saying this for over 2 fucking decades right?

For fucks sake just wake me up when your doomsday wet dream comes about. I reckon it will happen 4 weeks after the yellow peril I was warned when I was a kid comes about.

Islam plays the long game. It is no more apocalypse tomorrow than climate change is. But not being apocalypse tomorrow doesn't mean it's not a serious problem.

What? What plan? Islam isn't a conspiracy. There's no game. There's no plan. The behaviour of Muslims, on population level, is simply a result of the belief system.

Yes, dealing with Islam, in a western liberal democratic context is a problem. But that's not because Muslims are trying to be difficult or are particularly adversarial. I think, for most part, they're trying really hard not to.

i think the problem is just more fundamental. Western liberal culture has a foundation in Christianity. Its just a different way to think than Islam. It just creates problems, even when people are trying not to. Its not a problem of malice or even ignorance. Its just two systems of thought that are mismatched imho

There's no conspiracy, it's just the base directive of Islam. Anything not under Islamic control should be brought under Islamic control by force.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Calling it "forced labor" doesn't make it not slavery.

Nor does limiting it to convicts.

You think I support what is done in our prisons?!

 

[laughing dog]

The RNLI is not the UK government.

It's a volunteer organisation and charity dedicated to saving lives endangered at sea.

Any lives.

If that upsets anyone, they seriously need to recallibrate their moral compass, as it is likely that they are a sick, evil, cruel, fuck.

Your lack of paying attention to what's happening is showing. There should have been no rescue. The thing is they knowingly set out on an impossible mission expecting to be rescued. You knowingly put yourself in the path of certain peril to obligate me to help you? No way.

The RNLI is under no obligation to help anyone - it is a private volunteer organization of humanitarians. No one is asking you to donate effort, time or resources.

You are correct, twice over. No one is asking Loren to donate effort, time or resources, since he's an American and the cost is borne by the British. And no one is asking the British to donate effort, time or resources either -- the effort, time and resources it takes them to earn the 40K to 50K pounds a year British taxpayers pay for their rulers to support an irregular migrant are not asked from them, but commanded.

I didn’t realize that 1) Britain’s rulers are unelected and 2)rescuing someone at sea is equivalent to supporting them on land. Thanks for education!

 

[barbos]

Give me a break, it is you who literally supports Al Qaeda in Africa in order to attack chiristians.

I am pretty confident that @Loren Pechtel doesn't support Al Qaeda in Africa, or indeed, anywhere else.

Does your propagandist job come with long shoes, baggy pants, and a red prosthetic nose supplied; Or are you expected to provide your own?

That's probably what Russia is telling it's people, so don't be too harsh.

Riiiight, The Guy in in Syria is not Al Qaeda either, riiiight, I believe you.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What the hell is Europe doing?

Western Europe is slowly being invaded by the muslim hordes. I actually thought France would be the first to fall but I think England may fall first. And looking at the players Germany fielded the other day, they won’t be far behind. Danke Merkel.

You do understand people like yourself and derec have been saying this for over 2 fucking decades right?

For fucks sake just wake me up when your doomsday wet dream comes about. I reckon it will happen 4 weeks after the yellow peril I was warned when I was a kid comes about.

Islam plays the long game. It is no more apocalypse tomorrow than climate change is. But not being apocalypse tomorrow doesn't mean it's not a serious problem.

What? What plan? Islam isn't a conspiracy. There's no game. There's no plan. The behaviour of Muslims, on population level, is simply a result of the belief system.

Yes, dealing with Islam, in a western liberal democratic context is a problem. But that's not because Muslims are trying to be difficult or are particularly adversarial. I think, for most part, they're trying really hard not to.

i think the problem is just more fundamental. Western liberal culture has a foundation in Christianity. Its just a different way to think than Islam. It just creates problems, even when people are trying not to. Its not a problem of malice or even ignorance. Its just two systems of thought that are mismatched imho

There's no conspiracy, it's just the base directive of Islam. Anything not under Islamic control should be brought under Islamic control by force.

But that's just not true... in the west. They haven't invaded anything since failing to take Vienna in 1683.

When they proselytise they have the subtlety of a an elephant. They're not trying to talk anyone into anything. They're just arrogant assholes when they do. Westerners who want to convert really need to make an effort.

Their agression is, mostly, inwards. They have intense social control. It varies a lot depending on what version of Islam. But generally they give a shit about keeping other Muslims on the straight and narrow. For good and for ill. Which a lot of Muslims like. But totally incompatible with democracy and western liberal values.

Where Islam is really fucked up is that they can't accept converts away from Islam.

Once a country is Muslim majority, then it can get agressive. Israel is a good example. But nowhere in Europe is this the situation.

So its not like they're spreading agressively. Its more like is a sticky one way membrane.

Its not not a conspiracy. Its just a different way of thinking and organising society. Its not all bad. The Middle-East is can be pretty awesome. You make friends fast. Islam clearly makes people super duper friendly with those they deem hold good Muslim values (no matter if they're Muslim). Just don't be gay.

Up until industrialisation Islam was the superior culture. They were unstopable. If it hadn't been for Djingis Khan we'd all be speaking Turkish today. So its not like their culture is worthless. Its just obsolete today

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The AI fares very badly when it has to ask the questions.

AI can be used as a tool making doctors more efficient. For example, radiology. It can review many images quickly and flag abnormalities that then can be reviewed by an actual radiologist.

AI is very good at suggesting prospects in a search space. It is terrible at finding that search space.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One hard limit was broken: Israel does not permit flight crew from nations that do not have diplomatic recognition of Israel. Someone had to have hidden that information.

When a busy person fails to see something, the assumption that that thing was hidden is poor. Sure, it's possible. But "had to have?" Nope.

Fuckups are commonplace, and should be the go-to explanation for this kind of thing, unless and until there is evidence to the contrary.

Simple test: all commercial flights into the US the info about who is on board will have been sent ahead. It's been that way for many years. Israel is far, far more strict on airplane security due to past incidents I find it preposterous that they would not have similar requirements on info on who is on board a plane heading for Israel. I would thus expect an automated detection that he was prohibited. Their security will not be just going through the motions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Islam is stupid. Christianity is stupid. Christianity has been in charge in England for as long as England has been a country. It is still the established church, and still has its highest officials given seats in government as a matter of right.

If you lived in England 500 years ago, and were the wrong flavour of Christian, or not Christian at all, you might well have been in trouble. But today, you can get away with being an atheist despite England being an explicitly Christian nation, with Anglican Bishops sitting in the House of Lords.

So why would you expect England to go back to a medieval attitude to religion, if the majority belief switched from Chrjstianity to Islam? Most Islamic majority countries don't take a medieval approach - though some do. So what makes England likely to become a fundamentalist theocracy (of any flavour) after a century of declining religiosity?

Why do you think they can't undo what they did?? If you fail to defend freedom you will lose it.

The same thing that protects my right to be an atheist free from government religion protects a Muslim. That’s a freedom trade off and we fight if they go the way of the Baptist. Doesn’t seem to be imminent here in the US though.

Sure. Be a Muslim, no problem. But that doesn't mean we should ignore attempts to impose Islam.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The RNLI is not the UK government.

It's a volunteer organisation and charity dedicated to saving lives endangered at sea.

Any lives.

If that upsets anyone, they seriously need to recallibrate their moral compass, as it is likely that they are a sick, evil, cruel, fuck.

Your lack of paying attention to what's happening is showing. There should have been no rescue. The thing is they knowingly set out on an impossible mission expecting to be rescued. You knowingly put yourself in the path of certain peril to obligate me to help you? No way.

The RNLI is under no obligation to help anyone - it is a private volunteer organization of humanitarians. No one is asking you to donate effort, time or resources.

But England is being asked to--as in take care of the "refugees". These are not mariners in distress, these are people that intentionally marooned themselves at sea.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The RNLI is not the UK government.

It's a volunteer organisation and charity dedicated to saving lives endangered at sea.

Any lives.

If that upsets anyone, they seriously need to recallibrate their moral compass, as it is likely that they are a sick, evil, cruel, fuck.

Your lack of paying attention to what's happening is showing. There should have been no rescue. The thing is they knowingly set out on an impossible mission expecting to be rescued. You knowingly put yourself in the path of certain peril to obligate me to help you? No way.

The RNLI is under no obligation to help anyone - it is a private volunteer organization of humanitarians. No one is asking you to donate effort, time or resources.

You are correct, twice over. No one is asking Loren to donate effort, time or resources, since he's an American and the cost is borne by the British. And no one is asking the British to donate effort, time or resources either -- the effort, time and resources it takes them to earn the 40K to 50K pounds a year British taxpayers pay for their rulers to support an irregular migrant are not asked from them, but commanded.

I didn’t realize that 1) Britain’s rulers are unelected and 2)rescuing someone at sea is equivalent to supporting them on land. Thanks for education!

In practice, "rescuing" (I don't consider it rescue as the peril is knowingly self-imposed) ends up having to spend the money because of the way the system works.

Let's look at it from a different direction. They are in effect saying "if you don't do what I want I'm going to kill myself".

As with so much psychological manipulation once you accept the false premise as true the conclusion becomes apparently the moral path. Don't look at the morality of the act, look at the assumptions it's based upon.

 

[TSwizzle]

Trying to teach "migrants" not to prey on young Scottish girls, a fools errand.

Asylum seekers were taught how to avoid having sex with underage girls in Britain during a 'deeply concerning' lesson on consent, with a teacher warning: 'We've had young men fall for this.' Footage shared online shows a teacher from the asylum seeker charity Mamacita Foundation telling asylum seekers that they should ask young people for their 'ID card' when approaching them. The woman also warns the class of migrants 'not be deceived' by British teenagers appearing younger than their real age.

Daily Mail

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There's no conspiracy, it's just the base directive of Islam. Anything not under Islamic control should be brought under Islamic control by force.

But that's just not true... in the west. They haven't invaded anything since failing to take Vienna in 1683.

They haven't done so with an army. But look at how many places have had Islamic insurgencies in Africa.

So its not like they're spreading agressively. Its more like is a sticky one way membrane.

All the Iranian-backed insurgencies aren't aggressive spread?