MCATs, Affirmative Action, and DEI, Oh My

[laughing dog]

We are much more able to help our young adult offspring at this point in our lives compared to the years when they were in elementary school or when we were paying tuition for one or more at universities.

My point is that physicians are exceedingly well compensated in the US and do not need student loan forgiveness or any other taxpayer funded handouts.

Do you think medical care in the US is accessible to all? Affordable to all? Or even to enough people?


There are many many pieces as to why health care is so expensive in the US but one factor is the cost of higher education in the US. We are graduating newly minted doctors with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt. They then face very large start up costs and probably relocation costs as they launch their career—at a time when many are thinking about purchasing a home —requiring a down payment—or rent—rents are extremely high so that’s not much of a savings, and starting a family.

Taking away the cost of loan repayment —or dramatically reduce it abd you take some of the economic pressure off the equation.

It’s only a part of the issue but it is part of the issue.

Your argument essentially boils down to people get sick, so doctors need to have lavish upper middle lifestyles by charging those sick people exorbitant rates instead of being responsible with their money early in their career until they’ve paid off the debt they willingly signed up for”

Nope. My argument t is that it is unreasonable to expect anyone to go through a decade of increasingly grueling education and training, while taking on hundreds ( plural) of thousands of education debt in addition to whatever consumer debt they were forced to incur to you know: live and then instead of looking at the sheer enormity of profit given to insurance companies who reward their CEOs—the entire C suite—and investors— obscenely and but because MDs finally entering their profession in the cusp of middle age want to earn enough money to pay back those loans and for a place to live—that’s a bridge too far? Maybe get married, start a family. You know: like real people do. Because they are still putting in long ass days doing work that is vital —and managing staff simultaneously. And hoping to have a bit of personal time.

You seem to be just fine with paying people enormous sums of money for not providing medical care to anybody.

That puzzles me.

Hospital systems and providers make higher profit margins than insurance companies do.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that someone who takes out $200k in loans might be expected to live a more moderate lifestyle for a bit while they pay off the debt they willingly and knowingly took.

Doctors have the ability to command abusive salaries where their customers can’t say “no thanks”, in order to have luxuries limited to the top 5% of the country, and somehow you seem to think that because they agreed to take a large loan that makes it okay. Nobody else gets to do that. And YOU and every other person is footing the bill for it.

Everyone wants to have a house and start a family and have personal time and own nice cars and take luxurious vacations, and everyone puts in long hours.

To complete a bachelors, masters, and doctorate takes on average about 10 years, putting all of those on the cusp of middle age. And to attain that end point costs between $150k and $300k. Doctors aren’t different in this regard. But somehow they get a free pass to expect a 95th percentile income from people’s suffering… and people are fine with that.

Doctors have one hell of a PR branch.

Well, doctors tend to heal sick people which is great PR. Insurance companies screw sick customers every once in a while which is not great PR. Just saying.

 

[Emily Lake]

With all due respect, I understand that it is incredibly likely that a lot of the time right now, it feels as though every neuron in your body is on fire—been there so I truly get it or at least know how I felt —like I had been rolled down a long rocky hill covered in barbed wire and shards of glass into a pool of battery acid—but respectfully, I think you should consider that your reactions need to be recalibrated.

I was not deliberately rude or insulting unless you are of the disposition that we must all agree with you—but since this forum has rules, I’m assuming you actually are an adult and not an adolescent.

The above paragraph I realize you will see as an insult. It’s not intended to be so. It is supposed to get you to wake the fuck up and quit shooting at anybody who dares disagree with you. We —everyone on this board—disagree with each other. All the time.

That not rude to point out and it’s not an insult.

It’s rude to insinuate a moral failing or lack of care because someone disagrees with you, especially when your position isn’t based on facts but on feelings.

The only thing that has changed is my willingness to tolerate poor and disrespectful behavior while maintaining courtesy myself. I’ve historically been extremely patient when people don’t show civility to me… and it doesn’t work out. It hasn’t resulted in people appreciating my courtesy and responding in kind. Rather it seems to have encouraged further poor behavior - it gives the impression that people are free to treat me poorly without consequence, and it has resulted in people behaving as if they’re superior and I am expected to be okay with being treated like shit.

You are not even remotely the worst offender, but you get snippy and condescending more often than I think you realize. I like you, but I’m not going to make an exception on your behalf. I expect civil and polite interactions; I will return what I’m given.

 

[Emily Lake]

Y

Well, doctors tend to heal sick people which is great PR. Insurance companies screw sick customers every once in a while which is not great PR. Just saying.

You should consider looking into Independent Dispute Resolution associated with the No Surprises Act, AI assisted billing and upcoding, and the role of private equity in healthcare delivery before you make a stand based on your understanding.

 

[Toni]

We are much more able to help our young adult offspring at this point in our lives compared to the years when they were in elementary school or when we were paying tuition for one or more at universities.

My point is that physicians are exceedingly well compensated in the US and do not need student loan forgiveness or any other taxpayer funded handouts.

Do you think medical care in the US is accessible to all? Affordable to all? Or even to enough people?


There are many many pieces as to why health care is so expensive in the US but one factor is the cost of higher education in the US. We are graduating newly minted doctors with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt. They then face very large start up costs and probably relocation costs as they launch their career—at a time when many are thinking about purchasing a home —requiring a down payment—or rent—rents are extremely high so that’s not much of a savings, and starting a family.

Taking away the cost of loan repayment —or dramatically reduce it abd you take some of the economic pressure off the equation.

It’s only a part of the issue but it is part of the issue.

Your argument essentially boils down to people get sick, so doctors need to have lavish upper middle lifestyles by charging those sick people exorbitant rates instead of being responsible with their money early in their career until they’ve paid off the debt they willingly signed up for”

Nope. My argument t is that it is unreasonable to expect anyone to go through a decade of increasingly grueling education and training, while taking on hundreds ( plural) of thousands of education debt in addition to whatever consumer debt they were forced to incur to you know: live and then instead of looking at the sheer enormity of profit given to insurance companies who reward their CEOs—the entire C suite—and investors— obscenely and but because MDs finally entering their profession in the cusp of middle age want to earn enough money to pay back those loans and for a place to live—that’s a bridge too far? Maybe get married, start a family. You know: like real people do. Because they are still putting in long ass days doing work that is vital —and managing staff simultaneously. And hoping to have a bit of personal time.

You seem to be just fine with paying people enormous sums of money for not providing medical care to anybody.

That puzzles me.

Hospital systems and providers make higher profit margins than insurance companies do.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that someone who takes out $200k in loans might be expected to live a more moderate lifestyle for a bit while they pay off the debt they willingly and knowingly took.

If other people had the ability to charge abusive

Someone who has taken out hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans is going to be living a more modest lifestyle for a good long while. And HAS already lived a pretty spartan lifestyle for the previous 10 years or so.

We don’t have enough physicians in this country as it now stands. Expecting physicians to undergo years of grueling education and training should be enough. Why should we expect them or anyone to bear such an enormous monetary burden?

As it is, people —with any type of degree—are struggling to pay off student loans before their own kids go off to college. If they managed to have kids.

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree.

I grew up in a different t state and attended a state university, which was paid for, including room and board by scholarships and the very modest amount of money I was able to earn the previous summers. Hubby did not have the scholarships but he was able to earn enough at summer jobs ( makes were always paid significantly more than females in those days) . This is how our generation went to college.

Sadly —no, tragically and I fear fatally, as a nation we have lost that value of funding education in a way that makes it affordable to anyone who can gain admission.

Just as tragically, there exist parents who seem less concerned about their student working hard and learning as much as possible than they are about their student having ‘a great college experience’ which seems to mean having nice cars, nice clothes, lots of spending money and firm rooms kitted out better than any of the apartments I lived in until we got a house. Some also expect to be kept up to date —by the professors—on whether their darling attends class every day and turns in assignments and what do you mean my straight A student failed the first exam?!! Plus a well equipped fitness center and winning sports teams. Plus a blind eye by university and local law enforcement towards excessive consumption of alcohol and apparently now ketamine??? Animal House was really funny but I fear it sent a lot of people down the wrong path…

I’ve known parents a generation younger than me whose attitudes towards student loans was extremely blasé. As though it would be easy to pay off $100K in student debt.

 

[Toni]

With all due respect, I understand that it is incredibly likely that a lot of the time right now, it feels as though every neuron in your body is on fire—been there so I truly get it or at least know how I felt —like I had been rolled down a long rocky hill covered in barbed wire and shards of glass into a pool of battery acid—but respectfully, I think you should consider that your reactions need to be recalibrated.

I was not deliberately rude or insulting unless you are of the disposition that we must all agree with you—but since this forum has rules, I’m assuming you actually are an adult and not an adolescent.

The above paragraph I realize you will see as an insult. It’s not intended to be so. It is supposed to get you to wake the fuck up and quit shooting at anybody who dares disagree with you. We —everyone on this board—disagree with each other. All the time.

That not rude to point out and it’s not an insult.

It’s rude to insinuate a moral failing or lack of care because someone disagrees with you, especially when your position isn’t based on facts but on feelings.

The only thing that has changed is my willingness to tolerate poor and disrespectful behavior while maintaining courtesy myself. I’ve historically been extremely patient when people don’t show civility to me… and it doesn’t work out. It hasn’t resulted in people appreciating my courtesy and responding in kind. Rather it seems to have encouraged further poor behavior - it gives the impression that people are free to treat me poorly without consequence, and it has resulted in people behaving as if they’re superior and I am expected to be okay with being treated like shit.

You are not even remotely the worst offender, but you get snippy and condescending more often than I think you realize. I like you, but I’m not going to make an exception on your behalf. I expect civil and polite interactions; I will return what I’m given.

I don’t mean to offend but I honestly don’t care whether you like me. Or agree with me. I’m not fond of the whining nobody’s nice to me so I can be a bitch thing.

Look, Derec and I butt heads almost always and don’t pull punches but I actually am fond of Derec and respect his opinions even if I vehemently —and loudly disagree with them. I don’t see that as being disrespectful on either side. I think it is much more respectful to be upfront about where you differ in opinion.

 

[Emily Lake]

We don’t have enough physicians in this country as it now stands. Expecting physicians to undergo years of grueling education and training should be enough. Why should we expect them or anyone to bear such an enormous monetary burden?

Because doctors aren’t a superior caste. Everyone else who undergoes years of grueling education and training ends up with the same enormous monetary burden. You don’t give any of them a bye.

 

[Emily Lake]

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree

That’s a problem with universities. Turns out when you give away other people’s money in such a way, it allows the charges to escalate unreasonably.

 

[Emily Lake]

I grew up in a different t state and attended a state university, which was paid for, including room and board by scholarships and the very modest amount of money I was able to earn the previous summers. Hubby did not have the scholarships but he was able to earn enough at summer jobs ( makes were always paid significantly more than females in those days) . This is how our generation went to college.

Yeah, you’re lucky. I had student loans for all of it. I worked about 30 hours a week during my undergrad to afford a state college, and full time during grad school. I scrimped and saved and went without when I left school so I could afford to pay my debts and eat… and I’m in a lucrative field. You aren’t that much older than me, you just had a lot more advantages than I did. Which is fine - I’m not judging you for that! But I knew full well that I was taking loans that would need to be repaid. I didn’t expect that other people would pay my debts for me, nor was I under the impression that I could simply demand a high enough salary straight out of school to pay my loans while also living a well-to-do lifestyle.

 

[Toni]

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree

That’s a problem with universities. Turns out when you give away other people’s money in such a way, it allows the charges to escalate unreasonably.

‘Other people’s money???’

Education is a public good. It benefits all of society to have an educated populace who are able to contribute more to society abd who are able to make better more reasoned decisions.

ALL of us benefit when we have people who are educated and trained fur vital roles in our society.

The benefits are to society. A decent society provides for the needs of its citizens.

 

[Emily Lake]

With all due respect, I understand that it is incredibly likely that a lot of the time right now, it feels as though every neuron in your body is on fire—been there so I truly get it or at least know how I felt —like I had been rolled down a long rocky hill covered in barbed wire and shards of glass into a pool of battery acid—but respectfully, I think you should consider that your reactions need to be recalibrated.

I was not deliberately rude or insulting unless you are of the disposition that we must all agree with you—but since this forum has rules, I’m assuming you actually are an adult and not an adolescent.

The above paragraph I realize you will see as an insult. It’s not intended to be so. It is supposed to get you to wake the fuck up and quit shooting at anybody who dares disagree with you. We —everyone on this board—disagree with each other. All the time.

That not rude to point out and it’s not an insult.

It’s rude to insinuate a moral failing or lack of care because someone disagrees with you, especially when your position isn’t based on facts but on feelings.

The only thing that has changed is my willingness to tolerate poor and disrespectful behavior while maintaining courtesy myself. I’ve historically been extremely patient when people don’t show civility to me… and it doesn’t work out. It hasn’t resulted in people appreciating my courtesy and responding in kind. Rather it seems to have encouraged further poor behavior - it gives the impression that people are free to treat me poorly without consequence, and it has resulted in people behaving as if they’re superior and I am expected to be okay with being treated like shit.

You are not even remotely the worst offender, but you get snippy and condescending more often than I think you realize. I like you, but I’m not going to make an exception on your behalf. I expect civil and polite interactions; I will return what I’m given.

I don’t mean to offend but I honestly don’t care whether you like me. Or agree with me. I’m not fond of the whining nobody’s nice to me so I can be a bitch thing.

Look, Derec and I butt heads almost always and don’t pull punches but I actually am fond of Derec and respect his opinions even if I vehemently —and loudly disagree with them. I don’t see that as being disrespectful on either side. I think it is much more respectful to be upfront about where you differ in opinion.

I’m fine with that. Like I said, you’re nowhere near the worst. I’m simply not making exceptions. I value consistency, and I employ it as much as possible.

I don’t think you should politely tolerate the abuse you get either. And you and I both know that theres an expectation that women be “nice” regardless of how poorly we’re treated. It’s unjust, and I’m done with it. I encourage you to do the same.

 

[laughing dog]

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree

That’s a problem with universities. Turns out when you give away other people’s money in such a way, it allows the charges to escalate unreasonably.

Ignoring the rightwing meme, many state universities (especially the lower tiers), tuition is the largest revenue source.

 

[Emily Lake]

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree

That’s a problem with universities. Turns out when you give away other people’s money in such a way, it allows the charges to escalate unreasonably.

‘Other people’s money???’

Education is a public good. It benefits all of society to have an educated populace who are able to contribute more to society abd who are able to make better more reasoned decisions.

ALL of us benefit when we have people who are educated and trained fur vital roles in our society.

The benefits are to society. A decent society provides for the needs of its citizens.

Theoretically yes, it’s a public good. But realistically not all degrees benefit society as a whole. The problem is that there aren’t any guardrails to control tuition costs. Tax-supported universities, combined with guaranteed student loans has created a situation where colleges can increase tuition to rates that people would decline to pay if the had to make that decision themselves. Universities are taking advantage of goodwill, and leeching off of all of us.

 

[Toni]

I grew up in a different t state and attended a state university, which was paid for, including room and board by scholarships and the very modest amount of money I was able to earn the previous summers. Hubby did not have the scholarships but he was able to earn enough at summer jobs ( makes were always paid significantly more than females in those days) . This is how our generation went to college.

Yeah, you’re lucky. I had student loans for all of it. I worked about 30 hours a week during my undergrad to afford a state college, and full time during grad school. I scrimped and saved and went without when I left school so I could afford to pay my debts and eat… and I’m in a lucrative field. You aren’t that much older than me, you just had a lot more advantages than I did. Which is fine - I’m not judging you for that! But I knew full well that I was taking loans that would need to be repaid. I didn’t expect that other people would pay my debts for me, nor was I under the impression that I could simply demand a high enough salary straight out of school to pay my loans while also living a well-to-do lifestyle.

I was lucky—the company my father worked for awarded scholarships to X number of employee offspring, based on their GPAs. I also earned a small local scholarship. But otoh, my parents pushed us hard to earn those grades because that was the only way we would be able to go to college. My parents were well aware of the limitations of having only a high school diploma. I’m grateful but once in a while, I wish I had more fun in high school. My parents believed in very short leashes.

By contrast, I worked for a much larger, much more wealthy corporation which also provided scholarships to offspring of employees—and almost the same dollar amount as my Dad’s employer awarded. 30 years later.

 

[laughing dog]

Y

Well, doctors tend to heal sick people which is great PR. Insurance companies screw sick customers every once in a while which is not great PR. Just saying.

You should consider looking into Independent Dispute Resolution associated with the No Surprises Act, AI assisted billing and upcoding, and the role of private equity in healthcare delivery before you make a stand based on your understanding.

Thank you for buttressing my point. Insurance companies do not heal anyone and doctors do. Insurance companies can be extremely difficult to deal with - not good PR.

I'm not saying insurance companies are bad or evil. My personal experience with them has been rather positive, even with dispute/mistake resolutions.

 

[Emily Lake]

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree

That’s a problem with universities. Turns out when you give away other people’s money in such a way, it allows the charges to escalate unreasonably.

Ignoring the rightwing meme,

Excessive tuition costs isn’t a rightwing meme, it’s a reality.

many state universities (especially the lower tiers), tuition is the largest revenue source.

How much of that tuition is being paid directly by students rather than by loans?

 

[Emily Lake]

Y

Well, doctors tend to heal sick people which is great PR. Insurance companies screw sick customers every once in a while which is not great PR. Just saying.

You should consider looking into Independent Dispute Resolution associated with the No Surprises Act, AI assisted billing and upcoding, and the role of private equity in healthcare delivery before you make a stand based on your understanding.

Thank you for buttressing my point. Insurance companies do not heal anyone and doctors do. Insurance companies can be extremely difficult to deal with - not good PR.

I'm not saying insurance companies are bad or evil. My personal experience with them has been rather positive, even with dispute/mistake resolutions.

I’m not talking about personal disputes with your insurer. I’m talking about the IDR process put in place as part of the NSA law, and how it has resulted in 1) anesthesiologists and surgeons refusing to contract with insurers, 2) charging abusive rates*, and having the not-very-independent arbitrations award full amounts in 85% of cases.

Example: the average payment for 30 minutes of an anesthesiologist’s services is about $1000 if they’re contracted. When they’re not contracted, they submit bills for $50k for the same service, refuse to accept a lower amount, take it to arbitration and get awarded the full amount. The NSA-IDR process is responsible for about $80 per person per month of excess premium costs. It’s responsible for about $16 BILLION of extra costs in 2025 alone. Not for better outcomes or care… it’s straight up abusive exploitation by money-grubbing providers.

 

[Toni]

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree

That’s a problem with universities. Turns out when you give away other people’s money in such a way, it allows the charges to escalate unreasonably.

‘Other people’s money???’

Education is a public good. It benefits all of society to have an educated populace who are able to contribute more to society abd who are able to make better more reasoned decisions.

ALL of us benefit when we have people who are educated and trained fur vital roles in our society.

The benefits are to society. A decent society provides for the needs of its citizens.

Theoretically yes, it’s a public good. But realistically not all degrees benefit society as a whole. The problem is that there aren’t any guardrails to control tuition costs. Tax-supported universities, combined with guaranteed student loans has created a situation where colleges can increase tuition to rates that people would decline to pay if the had to make that decision themselves. Universities are taking advantage of goodwill, and leeching off of all of us.

I disagree: Society is benefited by having a well educated populace.

I don’t think that universities are leeching off of anybody. I’m a little biased given that I live in a college town and am married to a recently retired professor but honestly, public universities are struggling because there are fewer college aged people—and a bunch of fixed costs. Now state universities compete hard for students and set of that is offering a bunch of amenities that simply did not exist when I was in school—or even my kids. They also tend to be pretty full of administrators/admin support.

Public universities provide very necessary services to the public.

Hubby and I always laugh hysterically whenever we see a television or film depiction of any university, especially professor’s offices! I went back to university—twice—as an adult. I remember needing to meet with one professor in his office —which he shared, meaning his office mate had to leave the room during these conferences. The entire office was maybe 8x7. Max. No windows. Barely enough room for the two desks and chairs. Hubby’s was bigger and not shared. He had a file cabinet and shelves around the perimeter of the ceiling. No window until a couple of years before he retired.

 

[laughing dog]

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree

That’s a problem with universities. Turns out when you give away other people’s money in such a way, it allows the charges to escalate unreasonably.

Ignoring the rightwing meme,

Excessive tuition costs isn’t a rightwing meme, it’s a reality.

"Give away other people's money" is a fecking rightwing meme.

many state universities (especially the lower tiers), tuition is the largest revenue source.

How much of that tuition is being paid directly by students rather than by loans?

Loans are made to the students who either sign them over or remit them to the university, so I fail to see the relevance of your question.

 

[southernhybrid]

What is this thread about?

Since it's all over the place, let me add a bit. First of all, I looked up the average age for when a doctor starts to practice and it's between 25 and 29, hardly middle age. Of course that varies as I read about an NP recently who wanted to become an MD and she was just accepted to medical school at age 70. One of my former doctors had a Phd in engineering and then went to med school so she was close to 40 when she started to practice. She was brilliant intellectually, but also a space head in many ways. I was tempted to add all the times I've been misdiagnosed or mistreated by doctors, but that would take up way too much room. I despise most doctors. I prefer an NP for primary care and I've only known two who weren't very competent.

Also, doctors don't heal anyone. They give advice and write prescriptions. There are very few I've known who I would trust. Some do surgery or other procedures etc. But, people who live healthy lifestyles and follow good medical advice are healed by their own behavior. Some surgeons are excellent, while others often fuck things up. So many doctors are assholes and many aren't that bright regardless of how many years they spent in school. Btw, one of the residents where I volunteer is a retired OBGyn doc and I recently found out that he spent time in prison for botching up abortions, like leaving a dead fetus in the woman. This happened more than once.

My bro in law is a dentist and he's not that smart, despite taking all those science courses required for his dental degree from Emory. He voted for Trump twice. Is that enough evidence to support my claim that's he's not that bright?

 

[Emily Lake]

It did not used to be this way. Under my state’s constitition, they are obligated to fund public universities and colleges at a certain percent of the cost of running the university, the rest to be made up in donations, fees abd tuition. The state has failed to meet that threshold of financial support for many years now, meaning that students must pay substantially more to earn a degree

That’s a problem with universities. Turns out when you give away other people’s money in such a way, it allows the charges to escalate unreasonably.

‘Other people’s money???’

Education is a public good. It benefits all of society to have an educated populace who are able to contribute more to society abd who are able to make better more reasoned decisions.

ALL of us benefit when we have people who are educated and trained fur vital roles in our society.

The benefits are to society. A decent society provides for the needs of its citizens.

Theoretically yes, it’s a public good. But realistically not all degrees benefit society as a whole. The problem is that there aren’t any guardrails to control tuition costs. Tax-supported universities, combined with guaranteed student loans has created a situation where colleges can increase tuition to rates that people would decline to pay if the had to make that decision themselves. Universities are taking advantage of goodwill, and leeching off of all of us.

I disagree: Society is benefited by having a well educated populace.

I don’t think that universities are leeching off of anybody. I’m a little biased given that I live in a college town and am married to a recently retired professor but honestly, public universities are struggling because there are fewer college aged people—and a bunch of fixed costs. Now state universities compete hard for students and set of that is offering a bunch of amenities that simply did not exist when I was in school—or even my kids. They also tend to be pretty full of administrators/admin support.

Public universities provide very necessary services to the public.

Hubby and I always laugh hysterically whenever we see a television or film depiction of any university, especially professor’s offices! I went back to university—twice—as an adult. I remember needing to meet with one professor in his office —which he shared, meaning his office mate had to leave the room during these conferences. The entire office was maybe 8x7. Max. No windows. Barely enough room for the two desks and chairs. Hubby’s was bigger and not shared. He had a file cabinet and shelves around the perimeter of the ceiling. No window until a couple of years before he retired.

A year of undergrad has increased more than 400% since 1990, versus cumulative inflation of about 250%. But having a bachelors today is of less value than it was then.

Education as a concept has value, but degree inflation is a problem. Tuition has far outpaced the value of a degree, and many degrees aren’t in and of themselves valuable.