Obama, just can't call it a genocide

[fromderinside]

The military industrial complex which wants to get paid to build missiles and bombs to drop on the people who are currently Turkey's enemy.

We still have WWII stuff to sell?

You'd think repubs could say the gen-whatever word. They've been practicing Obamacide for over six years now.

 

[KeepTalking]

I guess too late is better than never.

Actually that has been going on for decades. The term itself was coined in the 50s I think.

So, at least a decade too late, then.

 

[Axulus]

Offend the Turks? With friends like Turkey who needs enemies?

The military industrial complex which wants to get paid to build missiles and bombs to drop on the people who are currently Turkey's enemy.

You'd think they'd have figured out a way to get paid without having to build anything - saves on employee and material costs, plus they can sleep a little easier at night knowing that no bombs had to be dropped to receive their money.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The military industrial complex which wants to get paid to build missiles and bombs to drop on the people who are currently Turkey's enemy.

You'd think they'd have figured out a way to get paid without having to build anything - saves on employee and material costs, plus they can sleep a little easier at night knowing that no bombs had to be dropped to receive their money.

Nah, they like blowing things up. Your way would be like going to a race car driver's home and handing him a trophy without his having to do the race. The type of people who become race car drivers want the thrill. Similary, you don't get into bomb making unless you like blowing shit up. It's why they're not making cars or industrial machines.

 

[angelo]

Pol Pot's Cambodia, Rwanda and IS genocide of all non muslims as well as some muslims on the wrong side of the fence is genocide on a grand scale in the modern era.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Pol Pot's Cambodia, Rwanda and IS genocide of all non muslims as well as some muslims on the wrong side of the fence is genocide on a grand scale in the modern era.

Rwanda isn't really a genocide, but rather simply a fight over resources. Those with more land than their ability to defend it often ended up murdered. While the trigger was ethnic violence most of the deaths were people taking advantage of the situation to remove those that stood in their way. (Often older relatives!)

 

[angelo]

You could almost put the Nazi genocide of the Jews in that category the way you put it Loren. All the Jews that were rounded up and gassed left behind property for the Nazis to exploit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Pol Pot's Cambodia, Rwanda and IS genocide of all non muslims as well as some muslims on the wrong side of the fence is genocide on a grand scale in the modern era.

Rwanda isn't really a genocide, but rather simply a fight over resources. Those with more land than their ability to defend it often ended up murdered. While the trigger was ethnic violence most of the deaths were people taking advantage of the situation to remove those that stood in their way. (Often older relatives!)

You could almost put the Nazi genocide of the Jews in that category the way you put it Loren. All the Jews that were rounded up and gassed left behind property for the Nazis to exploit.

No. The Nazis killed Jews because they were Jews.

Most of the deaths in Rwanda weren't targeted because they were members of any particular group. Rather, it was the settling of personal matters in a situation where they figured they wouldn't get caught.

 

[bilby]

Rwanda isn't really a genocide, but rather simply a fight over resources. Those with more land than their ability to defend it often ended up murdered. While the trigger was ethnic violence most of the deaths were people taking advantage of the situation to remove those that stood in their way. (Often older relatives!)

You could almost put the Nazi genocide of the Jews in that category the way you put it Loren. All the Jews that were rounded up and gassed left behind property for the Nazis to exploit.

No. The Nazis killed Jews because they were Jews.

Most of the deaths in Rwanda weren't targeted because they were members of any particular group. Rather, it was the settling of personal matters in a situation where they figured they wouldn't get caught.

According to Wikipedia, "The Rwandan Genocide was a genocidal mass slaughter of Tutsi and moderate Hutu in Rwanda by members of the Hutu majority." Sounds to me just like Nazi Germany; The Hutu killed the Tutsi (for being a different tribe), and they killed anyone who opposed the killing of Tutsi (because they were arseholes). The Nazis didn't just kill Jews; they killed communists, and anyone who opposed the Nazi regime.

Rwanda was a genocide.

 

[angelo]

How could anyone not describe what happened in Rwanda as genocide!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You could almost put the Nazi genocide of the Jews in that category the way you put it Loren. All the Jews that were rounded up and gassed left behind property for the Nazis to exploit.

No. The Nazis killed Jews because they were Jews.

Most of the deaths in Rwanda weren't targeted because they were members of any particular group. Rather, it was the settling of personal matters in a situation where they figured they wouldn't get caught.

According to Wikipedia, "The Rwandan Genocide was a genocidal mass slaughter of Tutsi and moderate Hutu in Rwanda by members of the Hutu majority." Sounds to me just like Nazi Germany; The Hutu killed the Tutsi (for being a different tribe), and they killed anyone who opposed the killing of Tutsi (because they were arseholes). The Nazis didn't just kill Jews; they killed communists, and anyone who opposed the Nazi regime.

Rwanda was a genocide.

Wikipeida is more interested in popular opinion than the truth.

Try reading Jared Diamond, Collapse.

 

[angelo]

A good book, but still influenced to some extent by the authors viewpoint.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A good book, but still influenced to some extent by the authors viewpoint.

That doesn't change the distribution of the victims. If it's ethnic violence there should have been almost none in areas that weren't mixed.

 

[angelo]

That depends on many other things like religious tolerance. Shia V Sunni comes to mind.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That depends on many other things like religious tolerance. Shia V Sunni comes to mind.

That's not ethnic.

 

[J842P]

A good book, but still influenced to some extent by the authors viewpoint.

That doesn't change the distribution of the victims. If it's ethnic violence there should have been almost none in areas that weren't mixed.

You realize that ethnic violence and opportunistic murders to settle personal matters can co-exist, right? They aren't mutually exclusive scenarios.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That doesn't change the distribution of the victims. If it's ethnic violence there should have been almost none in areas that weren't mixed.

You realize that ethnic violence and opportunistic murders to settle personal matters can co-exist, right? They aren't mutually exclusive scenarios.

And I'm not saying they are. I'm saying that the distribution of the casualties says that Rwanda was mostly opportunistic murders. Since the primary motivation wasn't to eliminate a group I have a hard time calling it genocide even though it started out as ethnic violence.

 

[angelo]

What about Stalin's genocide of his own people? Millions of people died, many by malnutrition under his dictatorship. That's why Hitler was shocked when the Russians didn't embrace his invading armies.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What about Stalin's genocide of his own people? Millions of people died, many by malnutrition under his dictatorship. That's why Hitler was shocked when the Russians didn't embrace his invading armies.

Ya, that was a burn. Stalin killed millions of his own people and they still preferred him over Hitler.

Ha ha! Fuck you, Hitler.

 

[Archimedes]

You realize that ethnic violence and opportunistic murders to settle personal matters can co-exist, right? They aren't mutually exclusive scenarios.

And I'm not saying they are. I'm saying that the distribution of the casualties says that Rwanda was mostly opportunistic murders. Since the primary motivation wasn't to eliminate a group I have a hard time calling it genocide even though it started out as ethnic violence.

The Hutu extremists imported millions of macheté ahead of the genodice. They had a recent census that let then know where the Tutsi lived and where "moderate" Hutsis who didn;t want to take part in the extremist anti-Tutsi campaign lived.

Radio Mille Collines deliberately upped their language, cranking up the anti-Tutsi propoganda, describing the Tutsi and moderates as cochroaches and vermins. A classic sign of a genocidal campaign

What happaned in Rwanda was most definitely a pre-planned and well thought genocidal campaign. Whatever sidelines events you think might have happened doe't detract from the fact that the massacres were preplanned as a genocide of the Tutsi people in Rwanda at the hands of Hutu Power extremists.