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Public education is a socialist monopoly

Ignoring and shunning is much more subtle and works, better I think. Racism isn't socially acceptable most places. So if there is a racist kid in HS he just doesn't get invited to the parties. He doesn't get to date the hot cheerleader. The places where racism is socially acceptable (small towns in the South?) it's probably best to just treat it as part of poverty. When people have security and enough money to travel a little, go to a University, and experience life, they change their views.

I have lived in the American South all my life, studied social stratification and human relations in school and work as a human resources consultant specializing in EEOC compliance and diversity planning/implementation. I have yet to see ignoring racism work.
I can see how that was the case in the past.
Can you provide an example where people were ignored or even shunned and didn't dig their heels in, taking the mantle of victim of moralists of some kind?
Are you saying that force of peer pressure is felt with everything but racism? Are you saying that when racists are directly confronted they don't dig their heals in? The cry of "racism" has lost its power. And again, if you read my first response it had the qualification of "except for illegal acts."
 
Ignoring them doesn't make them go away. What makes you think allowing a person to have erroneous beliefs makes those beliefs go away?

Ignoring and shunning is much more subtle and works better, I think. Racism isn't socially acceptable most places. So if there is a racist kid in HS he just doesn't get invited to the parties. He doesn't get to date the hot cheerleader. The places where racism is socially acceptable (small towns in the South?) it's probably best to just treat it as part of poverty. When people have security and enough money to travel a little, go to a University, and experience life, they change their views.

You can't shun your way out of confronting racism. The subtle you are talking about is actually sublimation of your anxieties and not facing the problem. Racist rich kids always have lots of friends drinking their wine and THEIR COOL AIDE. Racist rich adults usually have minority housekeepers and others so in need of employment they jump at the chance for a pay check. Meanwhile back at the Noble Savage estate....all appears well. They don't have no black folks working for them...nosiree. And they just shun their way through life shunning black people and racists....to keep things "subtle.":wink:
 
Ignoring and shunning is much more subtle and works better, I think. Racism isn't socially acceptable most places. So if there is a racist kid in HS he just doesn't get invited to the parties. He doesn't get to date the hot cheerleader. The places where racism is socially acceptable (small towns in the South?) it's probably best to just treat it as part of poverty. When people have security and enough money to travel a little, go to a University, and experience life, they change their views.

You can't shun your way out of confronting racism. The subtle you are talking about is actually sublimation of your anxieties and not facing the problem. Racist rich kids always have lots of friends drinking their wine and THEIR COOL AIDE. Racist rich adults usually have minority housekeepers and others so in need of employment they jump at the chance for a pay check. Meanwhile back at the Noble Savage estate....all appears well. They don't have no black folks working for them...nosiree. And they just shun their way through life shunning black people and racists....to keep things "subtle.":wink:

Go ahead, keep trying it your way. See how far you get and how many elections you win.
 
Ignoring them doesn't make them go away. What makes you think allowing a person to have erroneous beliefs makes those beliefs go away?

Ignoring and shunning is much more subtle and works better, I think. Racism isn't socially acceptable most places. So if there is a racist kid in HS he just doesn't get invited to the parties. He doesn't get to date the hot cheerleader. The places where racism is socially acceptable (small towns in the South?) it's probably best to just treat it as part of poverty. When people have security and enough money to travel a little, go to a University, and experience life, they change their views.
And if he is racist cop or racist employer, his victims should just shun him?
 
if this were true the best result that we could do would be to reduce the amount of money spent on education with the best result at zero spent on education. I would like an explanation of how you came to this remarkably counterintuitive conclusion.

1. Read the graph.
2. Read the quotes by educators who categorically state that more money has failed to produce as promised.
3. The Kansas City Experiment utterly refutes the claim of "THIS TIME, we'll do better if you JUST GIVE US MORE. Again."
A judge in Kansas City decreed that the district must drastically spend more money, for the good of the kids, you understand.
(wink, nudge) One billion dollars later, no improvement. Zero. Lots of nice computers and things. Lots of teacher pay raises.
No better educated kids.

Nobody suggested no spending on education except you. How absurd. You should learn about the Law of Variable Proportions, commonly
known as the Law of Diminishing Returns.



Theories that caused the Great Financial Crisis and Recession of 2008. Theories that have proven to be disastrous for the economy.

Stop with the liberal talking points. Stick with education. You're attempting to change the subject.

cheerleader for the very rich. And that they paid too much of their passive, unearned incomes in taxes.

There you go, down the Stalinist track as liberals always do. For decades, a majority of the twenty richest congressmen have been
Democrats. Can you say Rockefeller? Kerry? Outside congress, we have Obozo flying to California to fete rich Democrats paying $40,000
a plate for dinner.


And it is also certain that thirty five years into movement conservatism's dominance in the government and the economy that virtually all of the problems that we see now are the failures of conservatives and of conservative policies.

Republicans tax and spend too much, as they try to be everything for everyone. The only problem is, that Democrats are far, far worse. Take Obama, please. Conservatives have been FAR from "dominant," in politics, in the media, in education. Stop with the liberal talking points.
"I promise to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term." How did that work out Mister Liberal?
 
Ignoring and shunning is much more subtle and works better, I think. Racism isn't socially acceptable most places. So if there is a racist kid in HS he just doesn't get invited to the parties. He doesn't get to date the hot cheerleader. The places where racism is socially acceptable (small towns in the South?) it's probably best to just treat it as part of poverty. When people have security and enough money to travel a little, go to a University, and experience life, they change their views.
And if he is racist cop or racist employer, his victims should just shun him?

Wouldn't that fall under illegal acts? If they are just expressing an opinion they only let the world know how stupid they are. Who wants a racist CEO? What decent police station wants to hire a racist cop? This isn't 1970 anymore.
 
Ignoring and shunning is much more subtle and works better, I think. Racism isn't socially acceptable most places. So if there is a racist kid in HS he just doesn't get invited to the parties. He doesn't get to date the hot cheerleader. The places where racism is socially acceptable (small towns in the South?) it's probably best to just treat it as part of poverty. When people have security and enough money to travel a little, go to a University, and experience life, they change their views.
And if he is racist cop or racist employer, his victims should just shun him?

I don't think he is getting it! He asked me how many elections I have been able to buy!:thinking:
 
1. Read the graph.
2. Read the quotes by educators who categorically state that more money has failed to produce as promised.
3. The Kansas City Experiment utterly refutes the claim of "THIS TIME, we'll do better if you JUST GIVE US MORE. Again."
A judge in Kansas City decreed that the district must drastically spend more money, for the good of the kids, you understand.
(wink, nudge) One billion dollars later, no improvement. Zero. Lots of nice computers and things. Lots of teacher pay raises.
No better educated kids.

Nobody suggested no spending on education except you.
Actually you did when you said the relationship was inversely correlated.
How absurd.
Quite.
You should learn about the Law of Variable Proportions, commonly known as the Law of Diminishing Returns.
You should learn the Law of Trying to Interpolate Data by looking at Data Points 60 years apart. To paraphrase, the data you have shown doesn't mean crap.
 
And if he is racist cop or racist employer, his victims should just shun him?

I don't think he is getting it! He asked me how many elections I have been able to buy!:thinking:

I don't think you get it. Look at this graph

qocpg9wuae2lakl2em3ceg_0.png


We have had a little rise in the interest of racism as of lately, but not much. By the time the elections roll around it will be back to: no one cares. No matter how bad you want it, you will never have interest in racism like there was from 1950-1970. It's a dead horse. We need to do something different. Maybe a tax deduction for interracial couples who have kids :) Personally, I think most of the racism issues are just part of the broader problem of poverty.
 
When you cut education budgets sharply and finally to the point where courts or legislatures feel they must step in, you have already demoralized those whose occupation was education. Simply buying a lot of stuff and calling it "education" is not educating. Education cannot be run by remote control. It requires BOOTS ON THE GROUND. Education is a long term process and each client is with the system 12 to 16 years. If some of those years were spent spinning your wheels, a sprinkle of money will not fix the problem...especially with 12 years of student body already disadvantaged.
 
It is futile to try to have a discussion with Democrats. Here is an example why:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnk0tIqsbYM

Hank sounds like many of the Democrats here.
;:yawn::

So, what, do we respond by listing youtubes of Anti-Gay celebrities busted for homosexual relationships and claim they're proof all conservatives suck dick?
 
I don't think he is getting it! He asked me how many elections I have been able to buy!:thinking:

I don't think you get it. Look at this graph

View attachment 3067


We have had a little rise in the interest of racism as of lately, but not much. By the time the elections roll around it will be back to: no one cares. No matter how bad you want it, you will never have interest in racism like there was from 1950-1970. It's a dead horse. We need to do something different. Maybe a tax deduction for interracial couples who have kids :) Personally, I think most of the racism issues are just part of the broader problem of poverty.

Have you ever heard of public relations. I find your chart most telling. Your chart is of one social and physical negative being rated against others, which you didn't show. Because a problem is not rated the "most important by the most people" does not mean it is not a very significant problem. Since America has become resegregated the chart makes all kinds of sense. The spike in the last few years reflects the percentage of Americans living in ghettos. Racism is part of the broader problem of ignorance. No better way to stay ignorant than to ignore racism or global warming, or wealth disparity or crooked bankers. Keep up the good work!;)
 
It is futile to try to have a discussion with Democrats. Here is an example why:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnk0tIqsbYM

Hank sounds like many of the Democrats here.

...and the Faux news hit pieces you use aren't biased.....

For the whole hit piece from which Starman gets this garbage try: http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/School_House_Pork.pdf

If one cares about such tings check out College graduation rates in US and compare it with voting patterns. You'll find the Faux news image recolored fairly early in the trash piece. Notice the subtle hints that they try to send when they assign the highest rates of graduating students to red and dark colors while the other color, blue, will remain anonymous. Please note that the other color in the chart (blue) where the lighteer shades, lower graduation rates actually fits republican voting patterns pretty well.

Note where graduation rates are lowest (red states) Compare it with who votes for whom.

state.php




statemap1024.png



Is there any wonder why Faux chose this topic based on what you can see right in front of you. Another case of when red (right) is wrong and blue (wrong) is right. Shifty, eh. Fits with your point fairly well, eh arkirk.

I'm sensing another Starman BS move.
 
I don't think you get it. Look at this graph

View attachment 3067


We have had a little rise in the interest of racism as of lately, but not much. By the time the elections roll around it will be back to: no one cares. No matter how bad you want it, you will never have interest in racism like there was from 1950-1970. It's a dead horse. We need to do something different. Maybe a tax deduction for interracial couples who have kids :) Personally, I think most of the racism issues are just part of the broader problem of poverty.

Have you ever heard of public relations. I find your chart most telling. Your chart is of one social and physical negative being rated against others, which you didn't show. Because a problem is not rated the "most important by the most people" does not mean it is not a very significant problem. Since America has become resegregated the chart makes all kinds of sense. The spike in the last few years reflects the percentage of Americans living in ghettos. Racism is part of the broader problem of ignorance. No better way to stay ignorant than to ignore racism or global warming, or wealth disparity or crooked bankers. Keep up the good work!;)

I said racism is part of the broader problem of poverty, you say ignorance. We are close to agreeing Arkirk!!! Ignorance and poverty go hand in hand. Can you elaborate on the part I emphasized?
 
I have lived in the American South all my life, studied social stratification and human relations in school and work as a human resources consultant specializing in EEOC compliance and diversity planning/implementation. I have yet to see ignoring racism work.
I can see how that was the case in the past.
Please do not tell me you know my life past or present better than I do.
Can you provide an example where people were ignored or even shunned and didn't dig their heels in, taking the mantle of victim of moralists of some kind?
Are you saying that force of peer pressure is felt with everything but racism?
The Peers of racists tend to be other racists. You think racist will pressure racist to stop being racists?
Are you saying that when racists are directly confronted they don't dig their heals in?
Of course they do, but every time they do, it's a little harder to do than the last time.
The cry of "racism" has lost its power.
Actually it hasn't. That why so many white people need so desperately to be able to call black people racists with absolute legitimacy. It's a label they see as unimpeachable in its damnation of a person's character.
And again, if you read my first response it had the qualification of "except for illegal acts."
 
I don't think he is getting it! He asked me how many elections I have been able to buy!:thinking:

I don't think you get it. Look at this graph

View attachment 3067


We have had a little rise in the interest of racism as of lately, but not much. By the time the elections roll around it will be back to: no one cares. No matter how bad you want it, you will never have interest in racism like there was from 1950-1970. It's a dead horse. We need to do something different. Maybe a tax deduction for interracial couples who have kids :) Personally, I think most of the racism issues are just part of the broader problem of poverty.

What is this graph supposed to prove exactly?

Denial as an Intergenerational Phenomenon

So, for example, what does it say about white rationality and white collective sanity, that in 1963–at a time when in retrospect all would agree racism was rampant in the United States, and before the passage of modern civil rights legislation–nearly two-thirds of whites, when polled, said they believed blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities–almost the same number as say this now, some forty-plus years later? What does it suggest about the extent of white folks’ disconnection from the real world, that in 1962, eighty-five percent of whites said black children had just as good a chance as white children to get a good education in their communities (12)? Or that in May, 1968, seventy percent of whites said that blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities, while only seventeen percent said blacks were treated “not very well” and only 3.5 percent said blacks were treated badly? (13)?

What does it say about white folks’ historic commitment to equal opportunity–and which Taranto would have us believe has only been rendered inoperative because of affirmative action–that in 1963, three-fourths of white Americans told Newsweek, “The Negro is moving too fast” in his demands for equality (14)? Or that in October 1964, nearly two-thirds of whites said that the Civil Rights Act should be enforced gradually, with an emphasis on persuading employers not to discriminate, as opposed to forcing compliance with equal opportunity requirements (15)?

What does it say about whites’ tenuous grip on mental health that in mid-August 1969, forty-four percent of whites told a Newsweek/Gallup National Opinion Survey that blacks had a better chance than they did to get a good paying job–two times as many as said they would have a worse chance? Or that forty-two percent said blacks had a better chance for a good education than whites, while only seventeen percent said they would have a worse opportunity for a good education, and eighty percent saying blacks would have an equal or better chance? In that same survey, seventy percent said blacks could have improved conditions in the “slums” if they had wanted to, and were more than twice as likely to blame blacks themselves, as opposed to discrimination, for high unemployment in the black community (16).

In other words, even when racism was, by virtually all accounts (looking backward in time), institutionalized, white folks were convinced there was no real problem. Indeed, even forty years ago, whites were more likely to think that blacks had better opportunities, than to believe the opposite (and obviously accurate) thing: namely, that whites were advantaged in every realm of American life.

Truthfully, this tendency for whites to deny the extent of racism and racial injustice likely extends back far before the 1960s. Although public opinion polls in previous decades rarely if ever asked questions about the extent of racial bias or discrimination, anecdotal surveys of white opinion suggest that at no time have whites in the U.S. ever thought blacks or other people of color were getting a bad shake. White Southerners were all but convinced that their black slaves, for example, had it good, and had no reason to complain about their living conditions or lack of freedoms. After emancipation, but during the introduction of Jim Crow laws and strict Black Codes that limited where African Americans could live and work, white newspapers would regularly editorialize about the “warm relations” between whites and blacks, even as thousands of blacks were being lynched by their white compatriots.

(13) The Gallup Organization, Gallup Poll, #761, May, 1968
(14) “How Whites Feel About Negroes: A Painful American Dilemma,” Newsweek, October 21, 1963: 56
(15) The Gallup Organization, Gallup Poll #699, October, 1964
(16) Newsweek/Gallup Organization, National Opinion Survey, August 19, 1969
http://www.timwise.org/2006/04/what...he-absurdity-and-consistency-of-white-denial/

So your graph ain't brand new. It simply reflects what has been par the course among a majority of the majority over history in the USA.

So, do you think the US was a garden of equality and justice for people of color in the 1960s?
 
Please do not tell me you know my life past or present better than I do.

I’m not talking about your life Athena; I’m talking about strategies to combat racism.
The Peers of racists tend to be other racists. You think racist will pressure racist to stop being racists?

And if you find a pocket of racism where it's possible that all your peers are racist it’s most likely going to be poor, inbreed, folks, in a trailer park or a few old dudes, at a stale country club, who will die in a few years.

Actually it hasn't. That why so many white people need so desperately to be able to call black people racists with absolute legitimacy. It's a label they see as unimpeachable in its damnation of a person's character.

Why are black people so desperate to claim it’s impossible for them to be racist?

The other reason I think it’s lost its power is because The US is so diverse now that the entire topic kind of becomes ridiculous. I saw a lot of eye rolling from non-black minorities when Ferguson erupted. I live in an area that mostly votes conservative Republican. I work out at the local gym and on any given day I’ll see Blacks, Asians, Indians, Arabs, Latinos, etc. My neighbor is from India, my dentist is from Iran, my massage therapist is from Russia, and there is a wonderful black family down the road. Oh, yeah, don’t forget about the lesbian couple that votes Republican (I know because I volunteer on local campaigns). And this is an area that would be traditionally called “white suburbia” in the middle of the Midwest. Then I log into TFT and someone says something brilliant like “Republicans are racist” or “blacks can’t be racist. “

As a political issue racism is mostly dead IMO (except for perhaps local elections.)
 
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