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Shamed Nobel laureate Tim Hunt ‘ruined by rush to judgment after stupid remarks’

I doubt there is anything else going on. Idiots at university administration freaked out and fired the guy.

If police can freak out and shoot unarmed people so can university (freak out and fire innocent Nobel laureate )
 
The fact that the university reacted so strongly suggests to me that something else was going on.
Or it could be political correctness run amok.
As people have pointed out, there are plenty of extremely sexist professors who keep their jobs.
Yeah, but they tend to be (like Saida Grundy) sexist (and racist) against groups against which it is politically correct to be prejudiced about.
 
Yeah, but they tend to be (like Saida Grundy) sexist (and racist) against groups against which it is politically correct to be prejudiced about.
Do you have any actual disinterested relevant statistical evidence to support your claim or is this just another example of bias masquerading as fact?
 
Do you have any actual disinterested relevant statistical evidence to support your claim or is this just another example of bias masquerading as fact?
Do you have any examples to the contrary. When case after case after case shows bias in one direction it becomes increasingly stupid to deny pretty blatant double standards.
 
Do you have any actual disinterested relevant statistical evidence to support your claim or is this just another example of bias masquerading as fact?
Do you have any examples to the contrary. When case after case after case shows bias in one direction it becomes increasingly stupid to deny pretty blatant double standards.
I see. You don't have proper statistical evidence to support your claim, just your impression for a non-random small sample of sensational stories.

I have witnessed plenty of "traditional" racist and sexist comments from my colleagues in public. I know of someone who openly compared blacks to apes in a class who is still working.

But it seems that you believe in verifiable internet anecdotes. After Googling "racist professor", I got
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/19/duke-jerry-hough-racist_n_7309148.html and
http://academeblog.org/2014/09/04/the-racist-professor-at-the-university-of-illinois/ and  Kevin_B._MacDonald
.

I don't deny that there are extremists of "PC", but they are still the exemption not the rule in academia, IMO. However, extremists make news.
 
Do you have any examples to the contrary. When case after case after case shows bias in one direction it becomes increasingly stupid to deny pretty blatant double standards.
I see. You don't have proper statistical evidence to support your claim, just your impression for a non-random small sample of sensational stories.

I have witnessed plenty of "traditional" racist and sexist comments from my colleagues in public. I know of someone who openly compared blacks to apes in a class who is still working.

But it seems that you believe in verifiable internet anecdotes. After Googling "racist professor", I got
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/19/duke-jerry-hough-racist_n_7309148.html and
http://academeblog.org/2014/09/04/the-racist-professor-at-the-university-of-illinois/ and  Kevin_B._MacDonald
.

I don't deny that there are extremists of "PC", but they are still the exemption not the rule in academia, IMO. However, extremists make news.

Well the guy in the OP is hardly guilty of extremist statements but his case has certainly made the news in a pretty big way.
 
Do you have any actual disinterested relevant statistical evidence to support your claim or is this just another example of bias masquerading as fact?
Do you have any examples to the contrary. When case after case after case shows bias in one direction it becomes increasingly stupid to deny pretty blatant double standards.
My irony meter is getting quite a workout here.
 
So as always, you are just blatantly ignoring the facts and inventing a fictional world to defend your views.
I invented nothing nor did I ignore any fact. I simply do not believe the threat of his sacking was a real one.

The only available relevant fact is that his wife (who has no motive to lie about it and only harmed her relationship with the University by saying it) claims that she was told by a senior administrator that he would be sacked. You are inventing baseless unparsimonious excuses for which there is no evidence that this threat was not real.

His wife was told directly by a senior administrator that he was going to be fired the next day, if he did not resign.
So? If that is true, that still doesn't mean it wasn't a bluff.

First, your account is less parsimonious. It presumes the administration wanted him gone, so they conspired to make him believe he would be sacked but had no intention doing it, so they sent someone to lie to his wife. Since they clearly knew that it would still be viewed as them forcing him out, that means their is no motive for them to make such a bluff unless they wanted him gone but didn't think they could get away with firing him. Regardless, that makes the issue of whether it was a bluff completely irrelevant to the fact that they used such trivial comments as a rational to coerce him out of a job, because as University administrators with extensive knowledge of the political climate they either thought the climate was so extreme that his comments would harm them, or at minimum they thought the climate was extreme enough to give them cover to get rid of him for other reasons. Again, the latter in unparsimonious, has zero evidence for it and much evidence against it by way of his stellar reputation and honors that bring prestige and money to Universities.

Therefore, the most objectively plausible account of the currently known facts are that they coerced him to resign (by lying or sincere threat) because they believed the political climate was so extreme that his words would damage them. Preference for any other assumption-laden evidence-free invention can be based in nothing but ideological bias. Besides, the only other plausible explanation still means that they thought they could use this event for "cover" which still shows that they viewed the political climate extreme enough to provide such cover.

And why resign instead of forcing them to fire him so that they would look even more foolish and he would look less like some shivering clueless twit.
.

For one, it all happened within hours. He was told he would be fired if he did not immediately resign, so he resigned within hours of hearing this. He thought he had little time, so he made a quick decision. Not to mention, he was emotionally traumatized by the threat as any and every professor would be in that situation. He was likely very angry and wanted to say "Fuck you, I won't give you the chance to fire me", no matter how short sighted that was. Most people would do the same and be clouded by emotion, regardless of whether you have the basic human empathy or willingness to apply basic facts of human psychology to understand that. Again, more basic facts of reality you are intentionally dismissing to protect your faith that PC extremism in general and at Universities in particular has not already surpassed the point where it damaging science, free thought, and honest discussions of real problems and potential solutions.
 
The only available relevant fact is that his wife (who has no motive to lie about it and only harmed her relationship with the University by saying it) claims that she was told by a senior administrator that he would be sacked.
So? That does not mean it was not a bluff or even that the administrator knew what was actually going on.
You are inventing baseless unparsimonious excuses for which there is no evidence that this threat was not real.
There is no actual evidence the threat was not real either. I simply do not believe it was real because it really does not make sense for a university to sack a Nobel laureate over a stupid joke for which he apologized.

First, your account is less parsimonious.....
It is more parsimonious that your explanations. But then again, parsimony does not necessarily translate into accuracy.


For one, it all happened within hours. He was told he would be fired if he did not immediately resign, so he resigned within hours of hearing this. He thought he had little time, so he made a quick decision.....
You do realize the buttresses my point that he did not think strategically or was a clueless twit.
Not to mention, he was emotionally traumatized by the threat as any and every professor would be in that situation...
You obviously do not know any and every professor. Because I know plenty who would have said - Go ahead and fire me.
Most people would do the same and be clouded by emotion, regardless of whether you have the basic human empathy or willingness to apply basic facts of human psychology to understand that.
Given the lack of reality and reason in your argument so far, why should anyone take your word what "most people would do"?
Again, more basic facts of reality you are intentionally dismissing to protect your faith that PC extremism in general and at Universities in particular has not already surpassed the point where it damaging science, free thought, and honest discussions of real problems and potential solutions.
This straw man is more than ironic coming from you.
 
He didn't get criticized. He got fired, lost his income, essentially blacklisted from getting another job, and lost his ability to do what he was was passionate about, which incidentally included training female scientists and heading efforts to promote more women in science.

He didn't get fired. Please keep up.

He was at minimum, intentionally lied to in order to coerce him out of his job. Please don't continue your Red-Herring irrelevancies to detract from the fact that this is a case of extremist PC nonsense causing serious damage to a particular individual and more generally harming free thought, science, and honest discussion.
 
He didn't get fired. Please keep up.

He was at minimum, intentionally lied to in order to coerce him out of his job.
That is not necessarily the case. It is possible that unnamed senior administrator thought Hunt was going to be fired or that someone in a meeting said "It would be nice if Hunt just resigned otherwise we may have to do something about this" and drew an incorrect conclusion. The fact is that we don't know what actually transpired at that level or what the intentions were.
 
He didn't get fired. Please keep up.

He was at minimum, intentionally lied to in order to coerce him out of his job. Please don't continue your Red-Herring irrelevancies to detract from the fact that this is a case of extremist PC nonsense causing serious damage to a particular individual and more generally harming free thought, science, and honest discussion.

Thank you for telling me how and what to post. Like most--nay! ALL women, I have so little judgement of my own and must rely upon the superior judgement of the superior male sex!

(Batting my eyelashes feverishly followed by even more strenuous eye rolling.)

The simple fact is that I don't believe he would have been canned over such a trivial incident. I suspect there is something else going on.

However YOU should feel free to take at face value whatever you read in the media. It's not like any of us expect deep thinking or even critical thinking from you.
 
So? That does not mean it was not a bluff or even that the administrator knew what was

First, your account is less parsimonious.....
It is more parsimonious that your explanations.

Nope. You are assuming everything I am plus additional psychological and behavioral assumptions of the administrators in conceiving and executing a plan to do something other than what they said they were doing. For example, I am assuming that they formed an intention and conveyed it to him. You are assuming they formed two intentions and two plans of action, one of getting him to believe he would be fired, and another of what they were actually going to do. Also, we know from cognitive science (of which I am sure you know nothing) that executing deceit requires more complex mental processes than merely expressing actual intentions. All of that makes your account contain multiple times more assumptions than mine.

But then again, parsimony does not necessarily translate into accuracy.
Not a surprising you'd dismiss it, given that your arguments on most topics run counter to parsimony and every other scientific principle on which competing explanations should be evaluated (like explanatory and predictive power, coherence with established theory). Since parsimony is clearly among the long list of basic features of rational and scientific thought of which you are ignorant, I'll explain it. Every assumption has a probability of being wrong and thus each added one lowers the probability that an explanation is valid. Since your account has my same assumptions plus at least double that, yours is half as plausible as mine.
Now if your account was superior on other dimensions then that could balance out its inferior parsimony. But it not superior on any other dimension, so parsimony carries all the weight in determining which is more plausible and thus which rational thought would prefer. It doesn't guarantee accuracy (nothing does in science), it just determines relative probability. Thus, preference for your account can only be based in a faith based violation of the basic principles of scientific thinking.


For one, it all happened within hours. He was told he would be fired if he did not immediately resign, so he resigned within hours of hearing this. He thought he had little time, so he made a quick decision.....
You do realize the buttresses my point that he did not think strategically or was a clueless twit.

Yes, under massive time pressure and emotional stress, he made a sub-optimal decision, just as cognitive science shows most people do. A fact which has zero relevance to how the Universities actions reflect the reactionary culture that they themselves were reacting to.

Not to mention, he was emotionally traumatized by the threat as any and every professor would be in that situation...
You obviously do not know any and every professor. Because I know plenty who would have said - Go ahead and fire me.

So, how many highly honored established profs do you know who were suddenly told overnight that they would be fired over essentially nothing? None? I thought sso. Therefore, your claims of personal knowledge of various profs are meaningless, since you haven't witnessed them in that situation. All we can do is predict based upon that mountain of relevant cognitive science you are completely ignorant of that says that a person losing their long term job after a lifetime of praise and reward for their quality work, and it happening overnight would cause severe emotional stress in the vast majority of people, profs or otherwise. We also know that when a threat is severe and unexpected, the initial reaction is one of recoil, retreat, and self-protection which is akin to resigning. Attack typically comes only after time to assess the threat (including past experience with it) and knowledge that it can be beaten. This predicts most would respond to that emotional trauma under time pressure with resignation. However, that is somewhat moot since all that matters is that it is a perfectly predictable and understandable response for some people to react to that situation just as he did. That means that his resignation rather than "fire me" response implies nothing other than that he is a normal human being. Thus your and others harping on it is a pure red-herring to distract from the actually meaningful aspects of the scenario.

Most people would do the same and be clouded by emotion, regardless of whether you have the basic human empathy or willingness to apply basic facts of human psychology to understand that.
Given the lack of reality and reason in your argument so far, why should anyone take your word what "most people would do"?

You don't need to take anyone's word. You just need to apply a millisecond of honest thought to the smallest amount of knowledge that even you must have of basic human behavior. IOW, you just need to stop actively denying the basic facts your are aware of out of a biased desire to protect your faith.

Again, more basic facts of reality you are intentionally dismissing to protect your faith that PC extremism in general and at Universities in particular has not already surpassed the point where it damaging science, free thought, and honest discussions of real problems and potential solutions.
This straw man is more than ironic coming from you.

My assessment is made ever more valid with your every sentence and repeated disregard for undeniable facts such as that unexpected threats trigger emotions, and that emotional stress impairs optimal decision making.
 
My assessment is made ever more valid with your every sentence and repeated disregard for undeniable facts such as that unexpected threats trigger emotions, and that emotional stress impairs optimal decision making.
Your responses certainly valid that claim, but that is irrelevant to the discussion. Apparently you are under the illusion that every human is a susceptible emotional wreck who is unable to adequately deal with unexpected emotions in order to function in the world. You have not offered one actual fact about Hunt. Instead, you employ alleged generalities about human behavior as an explanation for a specific person's behavior.

The reality is that we don't know at this point all the facts. You believe that the Cambridge University administration would quickly cave to "PC nazis" to fire a Nobel Laureate over a stupid sexist joke that he had already apologized for. I can understand why someone would believe that. But since it is a belief, it is possible it is wrong.

I find that difficult to believe that was the cause (i.e. there is more to the story) because a Nobel Laureate is a rare gem in academia and universities like to have them around. I also believe that Hunt played into the PC nazis hand by capitulating with a quick resignation that really got him very little. Especially since these things tend to blow over just as quickly as they pop up. But since it is only a belief on my part, I could be wrong. So, I can understand why people would disagree with that belief.

Maybe after a little time, more information will leak out and this episode will become clearer to everyone.
 
He was at minimum, intentionally lied to in order to coerce him out of his job. Please don't continue your Red-Herring irrelevancies to detract from the fact that this is a case of extremist PC nonsense causing serious damage to a particular individual and more generally harming free thought, science, and honest discussion.

Thank you for telling me how and what to post.

I was just returning the favor of exactly what you did to me. Did you say that to me because you assume I am a woman?, because your below statement shows some rather sexist attitudes towards women.

Like most--nay! ALL women, I have so little judgement of my own and must rely upon the superior judgement of the superior male sex!

hmm. I didn't say a word that implied anything about women. But hey, thanks for being a poster-child for delusion P.C. extremist over-reaction and distortion of the facts for the purpose of political ends at the expense of reason.


The simple fact is that I don't believe he would have been canned over such a trivial incident. I suspect there is something else going on.

IOW, you have no actual alternative and not a shred of evidence for any alternative, but you believe in one. Sounds quite religious.
As I explained, it is completely irrelevant whether he would have canned. Unless you choose to believe without any evidence and against all reason that his wife just completely made the story up, then it is a reality that the University either was going to fire him or lied to him with threats to coerce him to "resign", which all reasonable people know is a distinction without a difference. It has no bearing on the core issues underlying this situation.


It's not like any of us expect deep thinking or even critical thinking from you.

We have sometimes agreed and sometimes disagreed on topics. But there isn't one where your arguments haven't looked like vacuous blather compared to mine.
And that is not because you are a female, but because you as an individual choose ideology over rational thought.
 
Thank you for telling me how and what to post.

I was just returning the favor of exactly what you did to me.


? I said that you should keep up--as in, actually be acquainted with the facts. I assumed some of your statements--i.e.: he was not fired as you stated -were based upon your being unacquainted with the actual facts of the case. But if you assert you know the facts of the case, then I am not sure how you can expect to be taken seriously when you misrepresent them deliberately.



Did you say that to me because you assume I am a woman?,

Uh, no one would mistake you for a woman.

because your below statement shows some rather sexist attitudes towards women.

*Snort!*

No, they don't.


hmm. I didn't say a word that implied anything about women. But hey, thanks for being a poster-child for delusion P.C. extremist over-reaction and distortion of the facts for the purpose of political ends at the expense of reason.


You told me not to post in this thread, which happens to be about sexist statements. I am not the one who is indulging delusions.


IOW, you have no actual alternative and not a shred of evidence for any alternative, but you believe in one. Sounds quite religious.
As I explained, it is completely irrelevant whether he would have canned. Unless you choose to believe without any evidence and against all reason that his wife just completely made the story up, then it is a reality that the University either was going to fire him or lied to him with threats to coerce him to "resign", which all reasonable people know is a distinction without a difference. It has no bearing on the core issues underlying this situation.

No, I believe the wife. I believe that there is a strong possibility someone at the university made such a threat but I would be surprised if it were actually anyone with any kind of authority to actually make hiring/firing decisions. For one thing, in such cases one does not speak to the spouse of the target.

For another, quite a large portion of my friends, neighbors and acquaintances are academics, as is my spouse of many years. If you include the experiences of all of those academics, it isn't hard to imagine that many years of experience at academic institutions has been discussed. One common topic is the workings of administration and also faculty rights, contracts, etc, which have all supplemented my own observations.

I strongly believe that there is something else going on in this case, given the mildly sexist and mostly romantic if unwise statements which are attributed to Dr. Hunt. He seems to have a great deal of support from women who actually work with him to be a genuinely sexist person.

We have sometimes agreed and sometimes disagreed on topics. But there isn't one where your arguments haven't looked like vacuous blather compared to mine.
And that is not because you are a female, but because you as an individual choose ideology over rational thought.

Ah! The last recourse of someone who hasn't a leg to stand on: attempt to belittle someone for their gender and assign stereotypical traits to them while claiming to be doing the opposite. Or perhaps it is simply that you are so in love with your own words that you are unable to actually acquaint yourself with the facts of the case you are arguing about, entertain ideas which contrast or contradict your own, or engage in actual discussion.

All that and so modest, too!
 
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I read his account in the Guardian as well. If his account is accurate, it seems odd that he was fired for that alone. I am with laughing dog's earlier remark: I think there is something we really don't know about the situation.

You can think that all you like, but that doesn't make it unreasonable to take the afore mentioned statements at face value.

His remarks, taken at face value and without any context, are sexist but mildly so. What he said was more romantic than sexist and actually reflects the changes in his field over the course of his career, which, at the outset, included very few women.

You can characterize it how you like, but it was a joke at the expense of women. Crying as the result of criticism is not in any way a flattering characterization, especially for a professional such as a scientist where criticism is bound to come up in some form on the job.

The fact that the university reacted so strongly suggests to me that something else was going on. Either this is not the first (or third) time he's been found to be sexist, or there's another issue going on.

Unless you accept his wife's account, they didn't react strongly. They accepted his resignation and made a statement which was expectedly tepid.

So why this guy? Over pretty mild remarks?

UCL has in its founding principles values of equality (with explicit mention of equality and inclusiveness toward women). When it comes to their attention (and publicly so) that an honorary professor has expressed sexist remarks, that rather runs contrary to UCL's values. How UCL decides to respond to such situations is up to them, but it is understandable they cannot be seen as supportive or endorsing of sexism.

Not making overtly sexist jokes in speeches is actually a super easy thing to do. I get Hunt's point about nerves, and mistakes happen, but the fact remains that he shot himself in the foot in a rather silly way. Speaking personally, I am not one to cast Hunt into the pits of Hell and write him off as an irredeemable misogynist or male chauvinist; however, he failed to meet what I see as a very VERY minimal standard of decorum in a professional, public-facing environment. I wouldn't put a lot of effort into salvaging the relationship 'cause I'm a bit cold like that. "Sorry, bud, but an honorary position doesn't make sense when your behaviour contradicts our founding values."
 
Unless you accept his wife's account, they didn't react strongly. They accepted his resignation and made a statement which was expectedly tepid.
If you accept the wife's account, the university very quickly let him know that he had to resign or be fired over a stupid sexist joke. In academia, that is a very strong reaction.
 
You can think that all you like, but that doesn't make it unreasonable to take the afore mentioned statements at face value.

His remarks, taken at face value and without any context, are sexist but mildly so. What he said was more romantic than sexist and actually reflects the changes in his field over the course of his career, which, at the outset, included very few women.

You can characterize it how you like, but it was a joke at the expense of women. Crying as the result of criticism is not in any way a flattering characterization, especially for a professional such as a scientist where criticism is bound to come up in some form on the job.

Apparently, irony is dead.

The fact that the university reacted so strongly suggests to me that something else was going on. Either this is not the first (or third) time he's been found to be sexist, or there's another issue going on.

Unless you accept his wife's account, they didn't react strongly. They accepted his resignation and made a statement which was expectedly tepid.

Insisting upon a resignation with a consequence of not resigning being terminated is a pretty strong statement. And cowardly, to go through his wife.

So why this guy? Over pretty mild remarks?

UCL has in its founding principles values of equality (with explicit mention of equality and inclusiveness toward women). When it comes to their attention (and publicly so) that an honorary professor has expressed sexist remarks, that rather runs contrary to UCL's values. How UCL decides to respond to such situations is up to them, but it is understandable they cannot be seen as supportive or endorsing of sexism.

And yet, they didn't bother to get his side of the story first.

Not making overtly sexist jokes in speeches is actually a super easy thing to do. I get Hunt's point about nerves, and mistakes happen, but the fact remains that he shot himself in the foot in a rather silly way. Speaking personally, I am not one to cast Hunt into the pits of Hell and write him off as an irredeemable misogynist or male chauvinist; however, he failed to meet what I see as a very VERY minimal standard of decorum in a professional, public-facing environment. I wouldn't put a lot of effort into salvaging the relationship 'cause I'm a bit cold like that. "Sorry, bud, but an honorary position doesn't make sense when your behaviour contradicts our founding values."

A bit sad that their values don't include dealing directly with the person they have an issue with or with getting both sides of the story. And rather contradictory to do it in the name of 'high principles.'
 
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