Poll: Does being white better suit someone to be neutral on matters of race?

[ApostateAbe]

No, but because it is a shameful taboo to uphold and defend the white identity. It is a little awkward and embarrassing to identify as white. Nothing can be openly attributed to the white identity except negative values. The organizations that uphold the white identity and defend the white race are social pariahs, even if they don't take their own race to be innately superior. Minority races, in contrast, have no shame in identifying, upholding and defending their own respective races, no shame is expected, and the us-vs-them mentality tends to come along with it.

When did this taboo come about? Nobody told me about it. I want to see someone try to shame me.

I identify as white, just by stepping outside my door in the morning. People see me and say, "There goes a white guy. I bet he has a productive job." It's a racial stereotype, but what are you going do?

Just last night, on a social media site, I upheld and defended the white identity while discussing the accomplishments of several white Presidents. You have to concede, when it comes to Presidents, white guys have set the standard against which Presidents of all other races are measured. This led to a discussion on the Civil War, which was a mostly white army fighting a really white army. This was part of White History Year, which is basically every year since sometime around Alexander the Great, another prominent white guy. Did you know that the Romans were white?
The ancient Greeks, too. That gets glossed over in the history books, but all that philosophy and conquering the world was done by white guys. Martin Luther? White guy. Martin Luther King? A black guy so great, they had to name him after a white guy.

One of the main problems of being a white guy is we are inundated with all the stories of great things white guys have done. A white guy invented the Polio vaccine, a white guy went to the moon, on and on and on. It's tough to live up to the white guy standard. Insecurity creeps in and one starts to see other races having a good time, wearing weird clothes, listening to loud music, excelling at sports, etc. It gets tough.

Being white is a burden and they even have a name for it. The standards are so fucking high. A white guy invented the telegraph. How are you going to beat that?

The taboo came about steadily ever since MLK, I believe. I grew up with the taboo (I am 31). You may be old, but I doubt you really missed the existence of the taboo.

 

[Bronzeage]

When did this taboo come about? Nobody told me about it. I want to see someone try to shame me.

I identify as white, just by stepping outside my door in the morning. People see me and say, "There goes a white guy. I bet he has a productive job." It's a racial stereotype, but what are you going do?

Just last night, on a social media site, I upheld and defended the white identity while discussing the accomplishments of several white Presidents. You have to concede, when it comes to Presidents, white guys have set the standard against which Presidents of all other races are measured. This led to a discussion on the Civil War, which was a mostly white army fighting a really white army. This was part of White History Year, which is basically every year since sometime around Alexander the Great, another prominent white guy. Did you know that the Romans were white?
The ancient Greeks, too. That gets glossed over in the history books, but all that philosophy and conquering the world was done by white guys. Martin Luther? White guy. Martin Luther King? A black guy so great, they had to name him after a white guy.

One of the main problems of being a white guy is we are inundated with all the stories of great things white guys have done. A white guy invented the Polio vaccine, a white guy went to the moon, on and on and on. It's tough to live up to the white guy standard. Insecurity creeps in and one starts to see other races having a good time, wearing weird clothes, listening to loud music, excelling at sports, etc. It gets tough.

Being white is a burden and they even have a name for it. The standards are so fucking high. A white guy invented the telegraph. How are you going to beat that?

The taboo came about steadily ever since MLK, I believe. I grew up with the taboo (I am 31). You may be old, but I doubt you really missed the existence of the taboo.

MLK? You mean the black guy named after the famous white guy, right? He was dead 16 years before you were born. There is no taboo. You are dealing with your own personal insecurities.

What really happened about the time of the black guy named after the famous white guy, was mass media, in the form of television and movies became the dominant source of information for the world. There has always been a black culture where black people wore different clothes to be stylish and enjoyed different music. The difference now is you can see it too.

I'm glad you revealed your age. There is still time for you to recover. This is where Foghorn Leghorn(famous white chicken) comes in and say, "Listen to me, boy. You got it all wrong." Your feelings of inadequacy are not the product of a taboo to uphold and defend the white identity. The whole idea is silly. If you are not the awesome white guy you were born to be, you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[ApostateAbe]

The taboo came about steadily ever since MLK, I believe. I grew up with the taboo (I am 31). You may be old, but I doubt you really missed the existence of the taboo.

MLK? You mean the black guy named after the famous white guy, right? He was dead 16 years before you were born. There is no taboo. You are dealing with your own personal insecurities.

What really happened about the time of the black guy named after the famous white guy, was mass media, in the form of television and movies became the dominant source of information for the world. There has always been a black culture where black people wore different clothes to be stylish and enjoyed different music. The difference now is you can see it too.

I'm glad you revealed your age. There is still time for you to recover. This is where Foghorn Leghorn(famous white chicken) comes in and say, "Listen to me, boy. You got it all wrong." Your feelings of inadequacy are not the product of a taboo to uphold and defend the white identity. The whole idea is silly. If you are not the awesome white guy you were born to be, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Feelings of inadequacy are neither here nor there. If many other people see things that you do not see, then the problem may well be you. You may have blinders over your eyes. Try saying, "I hope the white race continues to prosper," in casual conversation with anyone who isn't a white supremacist, and see if the conversation goes uphill or downhill. Try saying it to your white boss, or your white co-workers, or the white teachers of your kids, or your white friends. Actually, I really suggest you don't, because you and I both know damn well it is a bad idea, and it has nothing to do with either your insecurities or mine.

 

[Bronzeage]

MLK? You mean the black guy named after the famous white guy, right? He was dead 16 years before you were born. There is no taboo. You are dealing with your own personal insecurities.

What really happened about the time of the black guy named after the famous white guy, was mass media, in the form of television and movies became the dominant source of information for the world. There has always been a black culture where black people wore different clothes to be stylish and enjoyed different music. The difference now is you can see it too.

I'm glad you revealed your age. There is still time for you to recover. This is where Foghorn Leghorn(famous white chicken) comes in and say, "Listen to me, boy. You got it all wrong." Your feelings of inadequacy are not the product of a taboo to uphold and defend the white identity. The whole idea is silly. If you are not the awesome white guy you were born to be, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Feelings of inadequacy are neither here nor there. If many other people see things that you do not see, then the problem may well be you. You may have blinders over your eyes. Try saying, "I hope the white race continues to prosper," in casual conversation with anyone who isn't a white supremacist, and see if the conversation goes uphill or downhill. Try saying it to your white boss, or your white co-workers, or the white teachers of your kids, or your white friends. Actually, I really suggest you don't, because you and I both know damn well it is a bad idea, and it has nothing to do with either your insecurities or mine.

The conversation goes downhill because everyone in earshot has just realized they are speaking to someone who has lost touch with reality. Why would anyone think that some 5,000 years of continuous white progress and prosperity would come to a halt? Get a grip.

I've been white longer than you have, and apparently better at it than you, so you should listen to me.

Technical note: Blinders shield peripheral vision. The go on the side of the eyes, not over them.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Feelings of inadequacy are neither here nor there. If many other people see things that you do not see, then the problem may well be you. You may have blinders over your eyes. Try saying, "I hope the white race continues to prosper," in casual conversation with anyone who isn't a white supremacist, and see if the conversation goes uphill or downhill. Try saying it to your white boss, or your white co-workers, or the white teachers of your kids, or your white friends. Actually, I really suggest you don't, because you and I both know damn well it is a bad idea, and it has nothing to do with either your insecurities or mine.

The conversation goes downhill because everyone in earshot has just realized they are speaking to someone who has lost touch with reality. Why would anyone think that some 5,000 years of continuous white progress and prosperity would come to a halt? Get a grip.

I've been white longer than you have, and apparently better at it than you, so you should listen to me.

Technical note: Blinders shield peripheral vision. The go on the side of the eyes, not over them.

OK, try saying, "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," if you are a damned idiot.

 

[bigfield]

If whites have a coloured opinion regarding race, then who has a white opinion?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

The conversation goes downhill because everyone in earshot has just realized they are speaking to someone who has lost touch with reality. Why would anyone think that some 5,000 years of continuous white progress and prosperity would come to a halt? Get a grip.

I've been white longer than you have, and apparently better at it than you, so you should listen to me.

Technical note: Blinders shield peripheral vision. The go on the side of the eyes, not over them.

OK, try saying, "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," if you are a damned idiot.

You just said it. Did the sky fall?

 

[fromderinside]

Gerald Seib of the Wall Street Journal said today on NBC’s Meet the Press round table that President Obama “carries his own background into race and he’s not seen as a neutral observer.”

Yes, if only President Obama were white, he’d have no background or race to bring into race discussions.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/06...neutral-observer-race-carries-background.html

“This is the great irony of the first African American president, in some ways he finds it harder to talk about race because he carries his own background into it, he’s not seen necessarily as a neutral observer,” Seib racesplained. “He’s not having much effect and I think you see the frustration when he talks about these things on either front, on the racial front or on the guns front. You can tell that bothers him.”

Passing over examples where yellow or brown or dark brown people set the social agenda, whites are traditionally presumed to be agenda setters in modern world. All others are reacting or accommodating them. Those facts being true tells one there can be no assignment to genetics of color nor any assignment to social norms other than white, generally meant to refer to the flag wavers over here, of our commerce and government.

Sure our constitutional principles, borrowed from English French middle east Greek Phonetician Egyptian Persian Hittite land holders nomads, prehuman etc, are held over heads by those holding little books which they haven't read as surety for who we are culturally as evidence of our pureness of white heart, mind, and principle.

Yet none of this is relevant to whether one can hold a neutral position one race based on one's color. What's relevant are the rules of the culture which are operationally evident as biased to whites. So the rules of the culture cannot be used. In effect germane are only ones treatment in the face of one's condition imposed or derived from one's situation and one's activities resulting consequent to that treatment. If one is white and one is treated as a white one cannot claim to be prejudiced against on the basis of race since he is of the model built to judge. If one is black and one is treated as white one is obviously changed by he existence of the model. So it goes for every other shade and discriminated physical and cultural nuance.

So as a general statement all of us white Anglo Saxon descended males with a bit of money or property are not in a position to judge because our judgement against our position is suspect as is our judgement for suspect. It is for the others to judge us and for us to come to terms with those judgement and change our agendas to more conform with expressed needs of those who are not in the club.

Wow. Did I wind up or what?

 

[ApostateAbe]

OK, try saying, "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," if you are a damned idiot.

You just said it. Did the sky fall?

Yes, but that really isn't how to test for a taboo. I can write, "I love fucking children" (I just did!) and it does not violate the very obvious taboo so long as it doesn't communicate the same intention or belief. I know you understand this distinction, so I shouldn't be correcting it, and I am getting a little irritated at arguing in favor of something that everyone already knows.

 

[fromderinside]

.... I am getting a little irritated at arguing in favor of something that everyone already knows.

Poor misunderstood little "Scalia is a douche breakfast" one.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

You just said it. Did the sky fall?

Yes, but that really isn't how to test for a taboo. I can write, "I love fucking children," and it does not violate the very obvious taboo so long as it doesn't communicate intention or belief. I know you understand this distinction, so I shouldn't be correcting it, and I am getting a little irritated at arguing in favor of something that everyone already knows.

And what does everybody know?

Saying something and having someone else disagree with it or not liking it is not "breaking a taboo." It is a disagreement, an argument, maybe even a fight, but it is not a taboo.

Now if any resistance to something you do or say is enough to keep you from doing or saying it, then your problem isn't with the resistance, but with something much closer to home.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Yes, but that really isn't how to test for a taboo. I can write, "I love fucking children," and it does not violate the very obvious taboo so long as it doesn't communicate intention or belief. I know you understand this distinction, so I shouldn't be correcting it, and I am getting a little irritated at arguing in favor of something that everyone already knows.

And what does everybody know?

Saying something and having someone else disagree with it or not liking it is not "breaking a taboo." It is a disagreement, an argument, maybe even a fight, but it is not a taboo.

Now if any resistance to something you do or say is enough to keep you from doing or saying it, then your problem isn't with the resistance, but with something much closer to home.

OK, what qualifies as "taboo," in your opinion? If the claimed taboo against the defense of the white race is not "taboo," then what would qualify, if anything?

 

[ronburgundy]

No, but because it is a shameful taboo to uphold and defend the white identity. It is a little awkward and embarrassing to identify as white. Nothing can be openly attributed to the white identity except negative values. The organizations that uphold the white identity and defend the white race are social pariahs, even if they don't take their own race to be innately superior. Minority races, in contrast, have no shame in identifying, upholding and defending their own respective races, no shame is expected, and the us-vs-them mentality tends to come along with it.

"... it is a shameful taboo to uphold and defend the socially acceptable. It is a little awkward and embarrassing to identify as socially acceptable. Nothing can be openly attributed to the socially acceptable except negative values."

white is the social norm in America, it is the standard, it is whatever is generally accepted as proper. There is a taboo against normalcy?

Wow. So, the ideological blinders are really leading people to deny that treating white identity as a positive core attribute of oneself is not widely shunned by mainstream modern society? Just last week, a minor league baseball team had planned a "Caucasian-heritage night" where there were going to be various foods from northern and western European countries. It blew up into a major national story and they were attacked almost uniformly as racist and the event was quickly cancelled. Outside of the KKK, it was likely the first effort in decades by any culturally mainstream organization to give any honor or even acknowledge "white/causcasian heritage", and it will be the last because all such efforts will be immediately attacked as racist. Celebrations tied to specific countries or cultural traditions are acceptable, but only if nothing about being "white" is acknowledged. In contrast, "black heritage" and "black pride" celebrations are rampant, sponsored by major corporations, backed openly by countless politicians, talked about on all but Fox News as positive great things without slightest hint that they might be racist. Any person who even asks whether there should be a "white" counterparts to these things is presumed a racist and idiot.
BTW, I am not objecting to any of these realities of our modern culture where mainstream culture celebrates black pride and attacks any effort to celebrate pride in anything that even smells like "white pride". The fact is that you do kind of need to be a racist to want a "white pride" day, but having a "black pride" day can mean you just are trying to counter the effects of centuries of systematic racism and slavery.

Two people walking down the street. A black guy in a "black and proud" t-shirt is viewed as no big deal, just a black person that is proud of his heritage, and good for him. A white guy in a "white and proud" t-shirt would be presunmed by virtually 100% of people to be a rabid racist, and probably an active member of extremist political groups. In fact, he's likely be approached by white supremacist and congratulated for his "courage" and asked to join them.

In fact, Sarah Silverman uses the idea that she identifies proudly as white as a punchline in a joke, because it is so clearly wrong and viewed as racist to even think that way, and endorsing extremely wrong ideas as though they no big deal is a standard trope in comedy, especially her style.
[P]"People are always introducing me as "Sarah Silverman, Jewish comedian." I hate that! I wish people would see me for who I really am — I'm white!"
[/P]

In addition, the massive public shaming against having one's whiteness as a positive part of their identity is not the only factor. As I pointed out before, the simple fact of statistical proportions of the population, makes race a much less common variable in interactions for whites than blacks. For most whites, a very small % of personal interactions are with non-whites, and most of those are with Hispanics where Nationality or recent immigrant status overshadows the variable of race. Thus, "race" is not often a variable in their interactions. In contrast, due to being only 12% of the population, despite segregated sub-regions, most blacks have personal interactions with many non-blacks. Race is a variable in a much higher % of their personal interactions.
Race being a variable in one's interactions, makes one's own race a much more salient feature.

Bottom line is that it is mostly only white racists have their "whiteness" as a part of their personal psychological identity. That includes your standard white supremacists plus the leftist flavor of white racists who view everything through a lens of who belongs to what racial group, so they can decide who is "privileged" and who deserves compensation for belonging to a group mistreated by others. They often identify as "white", not as something to be proud of, but something they are ashamed of and to show how sensitive they are to their undeserved privilege.

 

[fromderinside]

OK, what qualifies as "taboo," in your opinion? If the claimed taboo against the defense of the white race is not "taboo," then what would qualify, if anything?

Obviously not well informed about taboo. What the hell is defense of white race. I just spent some time demonstrating a white one has no defense against what white ones set up that impacts other than white ones negatively. Generally, justifying a racist position is generally considered racist.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

And what does everybody know?

Saying something and having someone else disagree with it or not liking it is not "breaking a taboo." It is a disagreement, an argument, maybe even a fight, but it is not a taboo.

Now if any resistance to something you do or say is enough to keep you from doing or saying it, then your problem isn't with the resistance, but with something much closer to home.

OK, what qualifies as "taboo," in your opinion? If the claimed taboo against the defense of the white race is not "taboo," then what would qualify, if anything?

taboo

a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing.

You are not forbidden or prohibited from saying "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," nor are you forbidden or prohibited from believing that, arranging discussion groups around that, sponsoring pot luck dinners encouraging that. No one, to my knowledge is prohibited from associating with one who says or believes that.

taboos are things like

having intercourse with a sibling or, a woman walking around with her head uncovered in public (depending on what culture or religion you are talking about)

those are taboos.

 

[ApostateAbe]

OK, what qualifies as "taboo," in your opinion? If the claimed taboo against the defense of the white race is not "taboo," then what would qualify, if anything?

taboo

a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing.

You are not forbidden or prohibited from saying "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," nor are you forbidden or prohibited from believing that, arranging discussion groups around that, sponsoring pot luck dinners encouraging that. No one, to my knowledge is prohibited from associating with one who says or believes that.

taboos are things like

having intercourse with a sibling or, a woman walking around with her head uncovered in public (depending on what culture or religion you are talking about)

those are taboos.

You don't share in the common definition of "taboo," and that may be part of the confusion; "discussion" is the term within the definition you seemingly missed.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

taboo

a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing.

You are not forbidden or prohibited from saying "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," nor are you forbidden or prohibited from believing that, arranging discussion groups around that, sponsoring pot luck dinners encouraging that. No one, to my knowledge is prohibited from associating with one who says or believes that.

taboos are things like

having intercourse with a sibling or, a woman walking around with her head uncovered in public (depending on what culture or religion you are talking about)

those are taboos.

You don't share in the common definition of "taboo," and that may be part of the confusion; "discussion" is the term within the definition you seemingly missed.

Have you been forbidden to discussion pride in whiteness? Have I forbidden you to discuss it? has anyone here forbidden you to discuss it?

 

[ApostateAbe]

taboo

a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing.

You are not forbidden or prohibited from saying "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," nor are you forbidden or prohibited from believing that, arranging discussion groups around that, sponsoring pot luck dinners encouraging that. No one, to my knowledge is prohibited from associating with one who says or believes that.

taboos are things like

having intercourse with a sibling or, a woman walking around with her head uncovered in public (depending on what culture or religion you are talking about)

those are taboos.

You don't share in the common definition of "taboo," and that may be part of the confusion; "discussion" is the term within the definition you seemingly missed.

Have you been forbidden to discussion pride in whiteness? Have I forbidden you to discuss it? has anyone here forbidden you to discuss it?

I don't defend white pride, though if I did, then such expressions would remain relatively uncensored in this forum, which is great. I am given considerable leeway in defending the science of genetic racial variations, which is not the same as defending the white race, but the taboo against it is roughly the same taboo. Any threads I start remotely related to the topic are restricted to the "Pseudoscience" poisoned well, which I take to be generous relative to what happens in Facebook groups. In Facebook groups, it is much different. In about half of the "atheist" Facebook groups, any defense of the position results in a hasty ban. And I am not stupid enough to ever bring it up in face-to-face conversation, unless there is a careful lead-up to it and I receive hints that I won't become a pariah if my belief in it becomes known.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

taboo

a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing.

You are not forbidden or prohibited from saying "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," nor are you forbidden or prohibited from believing that, arranging discussion groups around that, sponsoring pot luck dinners encouraging that. No one, to my knowledge is prohibited from associating with one who says or believes that.

taboos are things like

having intercourse with a sibling or, a woman walking around with her head uncovered in public (depending on what culture or religion you are talking about)

those are taboos.

You don't share in the common definition of "taboo," and that may be part of the confusion; "discussion" is the term within the definition you seemingly missed.

Have you been forbidden to discussion pride in whiteness? Have I forbidden you to discuss it? has anyone here forbidden you to discuss it?

I don't defend white pride, though if I did, then such expressions would remain relatively uncensored in this forum, which is great. I am given considerable leeway in defending the science of genetic racial variations, which is not the same as defending the white race, but the taboo against it is roughly the same taboo.

You mistake comments of pseudoscientific crack pottery with taboo.

Any threads I start remotely related to the topic are restricted to the "Pseudoscience" poisoned well, which I take to be generous relative to what happens in Facebook groups. In Facebook groups, it is much different. In about half of the "atheist" Facebook groups, any defense of the position results in a hasty ban. And I am not stupid enough to ever bring it up in face-to-face conversation, unless there is a careful lead-up to it and I receive hints that I won't become a pariah if my belief in it becomes known.

Probably wise. People might think you really didn't know what you are talking about then and just walk on.

 

[ApostateAbe]

taboo

a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing.

You are not forbidden or prohibited from saying "The white race will obviously continue to prosper, and I am glad of it," nor are you forbidden or prohibited from believing that, arranging discussion groups around that, sponsoring pot luck dinners encouraging that. No one, to my knowledge is prohibited from associating with one who says or believes that.

taboos are things like

having intercourse with a sibling or, a woman walking around with her head uncovered in public (depending on what culture or religion you are talking about)

those are taboos.

You don't share in the common definition of "taboo," and that may be part of the confusion; "discussion" is the term within the definition you seemingly missed.

Have you been forbidden to discussion pride in whiteness? Have I forbidden you to discuss it? has anyone here forbidden you to discuss it?

I don't defend white pride, though if I did, then such expressions would remain relatively uncensored in this forum, which is great. I am given considerable leeway in defending the science of genetic racial variations, which is not the same as defending the white race, but the taboo against it is roughly the same taboo.

You mistake comments of pseudoscientific crack pottery with taboo.

Any threads I start remotely related to the topic are restricted to the "Pseudoscience" poisoned well, which I take to be generous relative to what happens in Facebook groups. In Facebook groups, it is much different. In about half of the "atheist" Facebook groups, any defense of the position results in a hasty ban. And I am not stupid enough to ever bring it up in face-to-face conversation, unless there is a careful lead-up to it and I receive hints that I won't become a pariah if my belief in it becomes known.

Probably wise. People might think you really didn't know what you are talking about then and just walk on.

Yeah, if you think the taboo exists and is justified, then I can relate to that, and we have grounds for rational discussion about our disagreements.