"God cannot create a square circle"

[Kharakov]

ToE is a solid, robust scientific theory. As a scientific theory, ToE is open to scientific criticism. Creationists imagine or invent what they think are problems with ToE. And persist in asserting those as problems even after they've been shown to not be problems. However, I am not aware of any actual scientific problems with ToE that are being overlooked.

Well, as long as you're ass hurting your view, why don't you regard the fact that your perspective of the ToE looks at the creation of the ecosystem ass backwards. From the standpoint of a conscious being creating an ecosystem, you do not want to give spectacular advantage to a single species without certain checks and balances in place so that the whole system doesn't collapse on itself.

And remember that certain advantages allow the accumulation of other advantages, which must be kept in check to keep the ecosystem balanced, and that which keeps in check must also be in check, etc. etc.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Oh, and:

that shows here with the apparent desperation to defend evo at all costs,

Pointing out that you don't really understand the science you're criticizing is not an act of desperation, Evolution Uber Alles.

 

[Mageth]

ToE is a solid, robust scientific theory. As a scientific theory, ToE is open to scientific criticism. Creationists imagine or invent what they think are problems with ToE. And persist in asserting those as problems even after they've been shown to not be problems. However, I am not aware of any actual scientific problems with ToE that are being overlooked.

Well, as long as you're ass hurting your view, why don't you regard the fact that your perspective of the ToE looks at the creation of the ecosystem ass backwards. From the standpoint of a conscious being creating an ecosystem, you do not want to give spectacular advantage to a single species without certain checks and balances in place so that the whole system doesn't collapse on itself.

And remember that certain advantages allow the accumulation of other advantages, which must be kept in check to keep the ecosystem balanced, and that which keeps in check must also be in check, etc. etc.

And little angels may push the stars and planets around in their orbits, and keep us from flying off into space.

You're adding entities unnecessarily.

 

[Eric H]

Eric H;
Now we know why people are so passionate to promote the ToE, it is not to do with science, it is to shake people's faith.

Rhea;
Nope, you have that wrong - you have a mistaken notion of other people's motivations. Time for you to drop that meme because it is an untruth and you don't want to be repeating untruths, right? That's Satan's work.

People are passionate to understand the world in a way that is reliable and makes useful predictions that can be used to create and invent and also fix and cure. Evolution does these things,

That's good if you are involved in medical science and research, but why should the rest of us be so interested in the ToE?

Rhea
so people are very very keen for more of that, please.

Good, if it appeals to you, but what does it inspire you to do?

Rhea
Religion does none of these things. It cannot predict, it cannot invent, it cannot improve, it cannot explain. It is full of boring repetition and has a finite book of explanation that never ever fixes its errors.

Faith in God inspires me to give up my time and money to help in the community. I was out on the streets until 3 am yesterday with a team of Christians from three denominations, we try and help people in need. The food basics bank was started and funded by Christians, and is largely run by Christian volunteers in our town. The good neighbours scheme is run to help the elderly and disabled get to doctors, shopping etc. ARK, Act of Random Kindness, is a group that help people down on their luck, the rent guarantee scheme helps the less fortunate with a deposit to find a flat. And many other social good schemes are run by the churches in our town.

Rhea
So people's loss of faith when they are provided something that works is merely a side effect, not a goal.

It does not appear so.

Rhea
It really is all about how much more wondrous science is than your god.

All created by God in the first place, so not so sure I can agree.

 

[Mageth]

That's good if you are involved in medical science and research, but why should the rest of us be so interested in the ToE?

Umm, do you read what you write?

Do you really have no interest in medical advances?

Good, if it appeals to you, but what does it inspire you to do?

Do you think it's necessary that one should be inspired to do things by the ToE? That the ToE has to inspire people to be worthwhile? If so: Why?

Faith in God inspires me to give up my time and money to help in the community

Appeal to consequences. What faith in god may inspire in you or others is not evidence in support of the assertion that said god exists.

I was out on the streets until 3 am yesterday with a team of Christians from three denominations, we try and help people in need. The food basics bank was started and funded by Christians, and is largely run by Christian volunteers in our town. The good neighbours scheme is run to help the elderly and disabled get to doctors, shopping etc. ARK, Act of Random Kindness, is a group that help people down on their luck, the rent guarantee scheme helps the less fortunate with a deposit to find a flat. And many other social good schemes are run by the churches in our town.

That's great, Eric. But I'm inspired to do the same sorts of things, not through faith in god, but through empathy and compassion for my fellow humans.

If you lacked faith in god, would you cease giving up your time and money to help your community?

Are you sure your true motivations aren't actually more similar to mine?

All created by God in the first place, so not so sure I can agree.

God is not necessary. Not as a motivation to do good or as an explanation for nature and the study of nature, science.

I understand that this is hard for you to accept. It's difficult to let those mental and emotional religious crutches go. But you can do just fine without belief in god. Turns out you don't need god-belief. It's not necessary.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Faith in God inspires me to give up my time and money to help in the community.

Ooh, that's good.
Of course, your faith in your faith also drives you to malign the work of other people in your community.
You make up sinister motives for people trying to find God's truth.
To accept (and promote) falsehoods, which your superstition says is a quick way to go to Hell.

I was out on the streets until 3 am yesterday

And this impacts the credibility of evolutionary theory....how?
This is how your superstition impacts your ability to learn reality. You think the consequences of belief or disbelief are important to figuring out who's right.

 

[Eric H]

Keith&Co.;,
if we're absolutely CERTAIN that the ToE is the truth, and your (and everyone's) faith in God is a mistruth, is it really so bad that we want and hope for you to come to The Truth,

Absolute certainty and truth, I hear that a lot !

 

[Eric H]

Mageth;

That's great, Eric. But I'm inspired to do the same sorts of things, not through faith in god, but through empathy and compassion for my fellow humans.

Its always wonderful to hear about people who volunteer in their community, for whatever reasons, take care.

Eric

 

[Rhea]

Mageth;

That's great, Eric. But I'm inspired to do the same sorts of things, not through faith in god, but through empathy and compassion for my fellow humans.

Its always wonderful to hear about people who volunteer in their community, for whatever reasons, take care.

Eric

You'll find that lots and lots of people volunteer.

Some crow loudly from the rooftops about how their christianity makes them do it. People tend to "sum up" the voices they hear that say "christianity" and think this makes their numbers vast.


And meanwhile they fail to "sum up" all the people who are _also_ volunteering but not all waving an identical banner; community parks, schools, libraries, doctors without borders, literacy, red cross, volunteer fire, hospitals, conservancies, unnamed soup kitchens and shelters, music programs, community garden feeding programs, tutors, coaches, knitters, clean water advocates. Their numbers are ALSO VAST but the christians tend to ignore and discount them because they don't wave big god banners that are easily recognized and summed up into the greater god banner parade.

I find that people who sneer and say, "well christians volunteer more than anybody!" are both wrong and mean-spirited. Yet I hear it quite a lot. Pretty much in every debate of whether christianity has any actual good to provide the world. They crow, "we care and volunteer and no one else does!" Which is just factually wrong and kind of amazing that someone would claim such a mean-spirited thing that shows their lack of notice of the efforts of others (extremely self-centered). But they (christians) say this a LOT. Apparently, nothing in their bible teaches them to avoid saying it.

 

[Eric H]

Mageth;

That's great, Eric. But I'm inspired to do the same sorts of things, not through faith in god, but through empathy and compassion for my fellow humans.

Its always wonderful to hear about people who volunteer in their community, for whatever reasons, take care.

Eric

You'll find that lots and lots of people volunteer.

Some crow loudly from the rooftops about how their christianity makes them do it. People tend to "sum up" the voices they hear that say "christianity" and think this makes their numbers vast.


And meanwhile they fail to "sum up" all the people who are _also_ volunteering but not all waving an identical banner; community parks, schools, libraries, doctors without borders, literacy, red cross, volunteer fire, hospitals, conservancies, unnamed soup kitchens and shelters, music programs, community garden feeding programs, tutors, coaches, knitters, clean water advocates. Their numbers are ALSO VAST but the christians tend to ignore and discount them because they don't wave big god banners that are easily recognized and summed up into the greater god banner parade.

I find that people who sneer and say, "well christians volunteer more than anybody!" are both wrong and mean-spirited. Yet I hear it quite a lot. Pretty much in every debate of whether christianity has any actual good to provide the world. They crow, "we care and volunteer and no one else does!" Which is just factually wrong and kind of amazing that someone would claim such a mean-spirited thing that shows their lack of notice of the efforts of others (extremely self-centered). But they (christians) say this a LOT. Apparently, nothing in their bible teaches them to avoid saying it.

As I said above, I admire people who volunteer their time, and Mageth clearly states he volunteers in a non faith capacity, this is wonderful.

Rhea
Religion does none of these things. It cannot predict, it cannot invent, it cannot improve, it cannot explain. It is full of boring repetition and has a finite book of explanation that never ever fixes its errors.

I merely mentioned faith as an inspiration to volunteer and help people, in response to this I do not look down on non- faith voluntary services, on the contrary, I think they do a wonderful job.

 

[Eric H]

Keith&Co.;

Of course, your faith in your faith also drives you to malign the work of other people in your community.

How do I malign the work of other people in my community?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Keith&Co.;

Of course, your faith in your faith also drives you to malign the work of other people in your community.

How do I malign the work of other people in my community?

First thing to mind:

that shows here with the apparent desperation to defend evo at all costs,

and

Now we know why people are so passionate to promote the ToE, it is not to do with science, it is to shake people's faith.

You mischaracterize evolutionary research as an attempt to destroy faith, to evade God, etc.

Unless you think that there are no scientists researching or teaching evolutionary theory in your 'community.'
Unless you think that participating in this thread does NOT make the people you interact with part of a community.

 

[Elixir]

You mischaracterize evolutionary research as an attempt to destroy faith, to evade God, etc.

That is among the most curious habits of yecs. They seem to have a hard time accepting that most scientists don't give a rat's patoot one way or the other about the little yec god. It is assumed that any facet of reality that tramples their religious fantasy must have been "designed" to do so, rather than accept that such trampling is the natural outcome of adhering to a counter-factual set of myths.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Faith in God inspires me to give up my time and money to help in the community.

What exactly about your "faith in God" leads to you do as such?

 

[Keith&Co.]

It is assumed that any facet of reality that tramples their religious fantasy must have been "designed" to do so,

WEll, it's part and parcel of the big selling point for a monotheistic religion.

In all the vast vastity of space and time, the single most powerful being in all of reality cares about them, as an individual. Watches over them, counts their good deedsand their bad, reads their thoughts, hears their prayers and tucks them in when they finally face the Abyss. It makes them important, not just dust specks in the void.

So when they go to a college and climb up on a pedestal and shout "I reject four color map evolutionary theory!" it's more pleasant to imagine a panel of experts saying 'shit! he's on to us!' rather than 'So?'

 

[atrib]

Faith in God inspires me to give up my time and money to help in the community.

What exactly about your "faith in God" leads to you do as such?

Perhaps he is trying to atone for the actions of his tyrant god who has cursed a vast majority of the human population in His creation to a life of suffering, hunger and disease?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Keith&Co.;

Of course, your faith in your faith also drives you to malign the work of other people in your community.

How do I malign the work of other people in my community?

"The fool hath said in his heart: there is no god..."

 

[Elixir]

... Watches over them, counts their good deedsand their bad, reads their thoughts, hears their prayers...

Maybe that's why so many of them seem not to mind the emerging Surveillance State?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Absolute certainty and truth, I hear that a lot !

And we get that a lot here.

Luke 14
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 12
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

The bible is THE Truth, unless it is inconvenient to the Christian telling us all about truth and absolutes.

 

[Rhea]

I was not saying that you (or any of the christians) "look down on" non-faith volunteerism. I was saying that they fail to notice it.

I also admire people who volunteer to do real things (not traveling to spread religion, for example, that's not a real thing that helps anyone). And I realize that you did not explicitly say that you felt Christians volunteered more than those who are not christians (though you sounded like it was a surprise), so you are not the example in this thread. Nevertheless, it almost always comes up.