Another study: teens fleeing religion more than ever before

[Underseer]

Article about study: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/tee...-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/

Study: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454

Yet another study shows that the young are abandoning religion in ever-increasing numbers.

I find it bizarre that the researcher tries to explain this in part because younger people are "narcissistic" and selfish. That's not the sense I get from talking to younger atheists at all. What I find interesting is that with older atheists, leaving religion is a mostly academic matter. Someone spent years studying the Bible, apologetics, etc., and concluded after much contemplation that the arguments for religion simply don't stack up. However, when I talk to younger atheists, it seems mostly about moral considerations. Instead of spending years of study trying to figure out what is true, they simply conclude that Christians are immoral and that they would rather not have anything to do with Christianity because of this. Of course, these are strictly personal observations, and thus subject to the usual problems with anecdotal evidence and selection bias.

I remember years back hearing an interview on NPR with a scientist who studies tipping points, and he insisted that we already passed the tipping point for the loss of religion in the industrialized world. If society is undergoing such a large change as the tipping point scientist suggested, then it would make sense that the young change more and faster than their elders.

PS -- I wasn't sure whether to post this thread here, in Science, or in Secular Lifestyles. If any mod thinks it belongs in another forum, please move it.

 

[DBT]

''teens fleeing religion more than ever before''

Of course. Not surprising at all.

It's a natural order of progression...they now have mobile phones to worship.

 

[rousseau]

I'd guess you'd get different reasons for the numbers in different areas of the world. Globally, I think the internet is playing a massive part, but in Ontario the church has been leaky for decades. I don't know why exactly that is, but the younger people now always seem really perceptive of the world, even if lacking in knowledge.

Now that I think of it, it could be a case where high-school education and a lot of times, college, is a requisite for people. Forty to fifty years ago this wasn't the case. It's almost always the least educated people I know who are religious.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I'd love to think we're at that tipping point. It would be nice if the hyper-religious were down to where tobacco users are (in the U.S.) -- about 20 percent, so they know their place and they know they can't push their obnoxious habit on the rest of us. Don't know that I'll live to see that, but then again I never thought the Supremes would give us same sex marriage -- it's hard to square that with the notion the Republicans often put out, that we are a center-right country. As to why teens and college age folk are turned off by the Bible: part of it has to be the more visible, overt atheist voices in the last 15 years who cite the primitive Bible verses that most ministers won't touch.

 

[skepticalbip]

The article was only a study of US teens. Worldwide (Asia, South America, Africa) isn't mentioned so not as hopeful for the world as some here seem to assume. Also from the article it looks like those mentioned in the study are leaning toward libertarianism rather than liberalism - rising individualism rather than joining a "grand community" and commitment to other people.

The linked article:

“These trends are part of a larger cultural context, a context that is often missing in polls about religion,” Twenge says. “One context is rising individualism in U.S. culture. Individualism puts the self first, which doesn’t always fit well with the commitment to the institution and other people that religion often requires. As Americans become more individualistic, it makes sense that fewer would commit to religion.”

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I'd love to think we're at that tipping point. It would be nice if the hyper-religious were down to where tobacco users are (in the U.S.) -- about 20 percent, so they know their place and they know they can't push their obnoxious habit on the rest of us. Don't know that I'll live to see that, but then again I never thought the Supremes would give us same sex marriage -- it's hard to square that with the notion the Republicans often put out, that we are a center-right country. As to why teens and college age folk are turned off by the Bible: part of it has to be the more visible, overt atheist voices in the last 15 years who cite the primitive Bible verses that most ministers won't touch.

It's also that there are simply atheists and freethinkers around. When I was a kid I could not conceive of there being an atheist in my neighborhood. Now its common - again, in the US. At my workplace the couple fundies are quite literally outnumbered.

To have atheists and atheism as common as anything else is just great for liberating people from religious dogma. There's nothing better than for the kid next door to learn that his neighbor he's been growing up with doesn't think gods are real and seems just fine. When's the last time a pope sat with gay atheist friends? This is a good thing.

 

[Perspicuo]

Article about study: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/tee...-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/

Study: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454

Yet another study shows that the young are abandoning religion in ever-increasing numbers.

I find it bizarre that the researcher tries to explain this in part because younger people are "narcissistic" and selfish. That's not the sense I get from talking to younger atheists at all. What I find interesting is that with older atheists, leaving religion is a mostly academic matter. Someone spent years studying the Bible, apologetics, etc., and concluded after much contemplation that the arguments for religion simply don't stack up. However, when I talk to younger atheists, it seems mostly about moral considerations. Instead of spending years of study trying to figure out what is true, they simply conclude that Christians are immoral and that they would rather not have anything to do with Christianity because of this. Of course, these are strictly personal observations, and thus subject to the usual problems with anecdotal evidence and selection bias.

Not a problem at all. When I left religion, circa 1989, I had a reason to do so that now I consider a well-seasoned apologist would have been able to smack down. But (and this is the important detail) whatever my reason was, it got me on the trail to finding more and more reasons not to believe, more logical tools and evidence.

- - - Updated - - -

The article was only a study of US teens. Worldwide (Asia, South America, Africa) isn't mentioned so not as hopeful for the world as some here seem to assume. Also from the article it looks like those mentioned in the study are leaning toward libertarianism rather than liberalism - rising individualism rather than joining a "grand community" and commitment to other people.

The linked article:

“These trends are part of a larger cultural context, a context that is often missing in polls about religion,” Twenge says. “One context is rising individualism in U.S. culture. Individualism puts the self first, which doesn’t always fit well with the commitment to the institution and other people that religion often requires. As Americans become more individualistic, it makes sense that fewer would commit to religion.”

Observation or interpretation?

I see the usual claim that young people are more selfish. These are the people supporting Obama and the State protecting minorities.

 

[skepticalbip]

The article was only a study of US teens. Worldwide (Asia, South America, Africa) isn't mentioned so not as hopeful for the world as some here seem to assume. Also from the article it looks like those mentioned in the study are leaning toward libertarianism rather than liberalism - rising individualism rather than joining a "grand community" and commitment to other people.

The linked article:

“These trends are part of a larger cultural context, a context that is often missing in polls about religion,” Twenge says. “One context is rising individualism in U.S. culture. Individualism puts the self first, which doesn’t always fit well with the commitment to the institution and other people that religion often requires. As Americans become more individualistic, it makes sense that fewer would commit to religion.”

Observation or interpretation?

I see the usual claim that young people are more selfish. These are the people supporting Obama and the State protecting minorities.

Of course there is the usual claim that the young are selfish and there has always been a percentage of the selfish but the study said "rising individualism in U.S. culture". I read that as an increasing percentage of individualism.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't particularly care if more people are leaving religion behind as much as radical and arbitrarily ridiculous religious tenets behind. The problem of just being an atheist is that it isn't exactly an easy thing to be. Purpose and understanding of the world around us are less cookie cutter for atheists and it is important to help extend reasonable philosophies to help fill in the gaps.

 

[Elixir]

I think the main driver - especially in the US - is the rise of reality-denying young earth wacko cults that identify themselves as "Christian" sects. Their crap is so transparent and easily debunked that anyone beyond toddler age has no excuse for falling for it. It tars religion in general by association - as well it should.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

As time goes on, you are going to see more and more atheists like myself, who never were believers. When you are faced with these beliefs as an adult, after your mind has developed beyond that of a child, you are far far less likely to buy into the wild claims.

 

[Elixir]

As time goes on, you are going to see more and more atheists like myself, who never were believers. When you are faced with these beliefs as an adult, after your mind has developed beyond that of a child, you are far far less likely to buy into the wild claims.

I am grateful that I was encouraged as a small child to read about a bunch of different religions, and even attend the rites of various sects/religions. Early on, I decided that only those tenets common to all of them were likely to be true. Closer inspection as I got into double-digit age revealed that there's not much left of any religion once you eliminate that which contradicts other religions... I'm still not an atheist due to personal experience, but have a well developed level of contempt for organized religions.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

well said, Elixir. I had a similar experience. As funny or wrong as it may sound, I also strongly encourage telling lies to children. Things like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Let them figure out for themselves that authority figures have told them a falsehood and let develop a healthy skepticism. When they challenge you about Santa etc, follow their logic and support them in their conclusion. When they later address issues like religion, they will be well equipped to think for themselves.

 

[skepticalbip]

I don't particularly care if more people are leaving religion behind as much as radical and arbitrarily ridiculous religious tenets behind. The problem of just being an atheist is that it isn't exactly an easy thing to be. Purpose and understanding of the world around us are less cookie cutter for atheists and it is important to help extend reasonable philosophies to help fill in the gaps.

I haven't found atheism at all difficult. Maybe that is because I determined long ago that there is no purpose to life so didn't need to replace the religious idea of purpose with a philosophical idea of purpose. I have found that it is good to get along with and help others because it makes my life easier and more enjoyable (pure pragmatism) not because of some philosophical or religious reason to do so.

 

[rousseau]

I don't particularly care if more people are leaving religion behind as much as radical and arbitrarily ridiculous religious tenets behind. The problem of just being an atheist is that it isn't exactly an easy thing to be. Purpose and understanding of the world around us are less cookie cutter for atheists and it is important to help extend reasonable philosophies to help fill in the gaps.

I see your point, although I think it's easy to mistake being irreligious for being consciously atheist. By definition most people who are non-religious are atheists, but I think for most of these people there is no dire existential tone in non-belief, they just have one less delusion in a world that's otherwise unchanged.

 

[rousseau]

I don't particularly care if more people are leaving religion behind as much as radical and arbitrarily ridiculous religious tenets behind. The problem of just being an atheist is that it isn't exactly an easy thing to be. Purpose and understanding of the world around us are less cookie cutter for atheists and it is important to help extend reasonable philosophies to help fill in the gaps.

I haven't found atheism at all difficult. Maybe that is because I determined long ago that there is no purpose to life so didn't need to replace the religious idea of purpose with a philosophical idea of purpose. I have found that it is good to get along with and help others because it makes my life easier and more enjoyable (pure pragmatism) not because of some philosophical or religious reason to do so.

+1, but I have found developing my own morals and perspectives to be helpful. It's not that I need purpose, but I do like guiding principles. If you aren't spoon-fed principles, or reject those of your day, finding your own is that much more difficult.

 

[braces_for_impact]

The Internet, of course is one reason. Another is that in large part conservative Christianity has decided to live or die "defending" itself from the gays. If they would drop that issue, they would be much more palatable to many more Americans. They know this is too, but cannot let this issue go. How awesome is it that in their struggle for acceptance, the gay community may well have reduced Christianity to a shell of it's former self. Something other religions, dictators or communism could not do. The third I think is the incredible intrusion religion has made into politics. Trying to legislate their religion has alienated all but the older Americans. People see the news, day after day and the hate for gays, women, secularists, Muslims, etc. People are tired of dealing with settled issues like abortion, birth control, gay marriage, etc. We have so many legitimate problems that our disfunctional government can do nothing about because of their preoccupation with what essentially is none of their business.

 

[fromderinside]

We have so many legitimate problems that our disfunctional government can do nothing about because of their preoccupation with what essentially is none of their business.

As the saying goes "If one can't screw your wife screw you."

 

[Underseer]

I think the main driver - especially in the US - is the rise of reality-denying young earth wacko cults that identify themselves as "Christian" sects. Their crap is so transparent and easily debunked that anyone beyond toddler age has no excuse for falling for it. It tars religion in general by association - as well it should.

But here's the thing, they launched successful attacks on moderate Christians for not believing in the childish faerie tales in the most literal way possible. Sure, they succeeded in pulling members from the ranks of the more moderate denominations, but at the expense of driving more reasonable people away from Christianity as a whole.

 

[Shake]

I think the main driver - especially in the US - is the rise of reality-denying young earth wacko cults that identify themselves as "Christian" sects. Their crap is so transparent and easily debunked that anyone beyond toddler age has no excuse for falling for it. It tars religion in general by association - as well it should.

(emphasis added)

The Internet, of course is one reason. Another is that in large part conservative Christianity has decided to live or die "defending" itself from the gays. If they would drop that issue, they would be much more palatable to many more Americans. They know this is too, but cannot let this issue go. How awesome is it that in their struggle for acceptance, the gay community may well have reduced Christianity to a shell of it's former self. Something other religions, dictators or communism could not do. The third I think is the incredible intrusion religion has made into politics. Trying to legislate their religion has alienated all but the older Americans. People see the news, day after day and the hate for gays, women, secularists, Muslims, etc. People are tired of dealing with settled issues like abortion, birth control, gay marriage, etc. We have so many legitimate problems that our dysfunctional government can do nothing about because of their preoccupation with what essentially is none of their business.

The internet is, of course, the tool which makes the debunking so much easier. I've been watching some good atheist YouTube videos by the likes of Thunderf00t, potholer54, and AronRa lately, and these guys do a lot of debunking and exposing the lies of religion. In those videos I found debates with the likes of Ray Comfort, the Hovinds, William Lane Craig, etc., and found them quite eye-opening. Thunderf00t has one video, the title of which he likes to quote/summarize by saying that the 'net is where religions come to die.