What do you do about murder?

[Mumbles]

Okay, time for an answer from a guy who grew up in the rough part of town

Always travel in groups, at least 3 deep. Numbers = protection.

Don't floss - ie, show off anything expensive, while alone. First time I was robbed, was for a Nintendo Game & Watch, on my own front porch, when I was 8.

Watch out for authority figures, especially police. They can kill you, say "I thought he had a gun!", and get away with it. Hell, in Florida, it seems like ordinary people can get away with shooting some black kid using this excuse.

Watch out for *anyone* purposefully following you.

Stay away from particular areas, venues, etc. "Crown" venues were okay when I was younger, but only because they were run by the New York Boys, and anyone who messed around in them would be killed. Quite a few other locations, events, and the like, were well known for gang presence, and for erupting into shootings.

Don't mouth off to the wrong person.

If some guy walks off the basketball court (or some such) towards his car cursing, run. He'll come back armed.

Don't play your walkman (or MP3 player now) when it's dark, on headphones.

Watch the shadows cast by streetlights - you can detect someone following you using them.

That "keys between your fingers" bit? Forget it. But don't carry a full-on weapon either, since cops might kill you for that.

Never abandon a friend. Doing so, simply means that they have no further use for you, which leaves you more vulnerable. It's better to take an ass-whupping with them, than to be alone after that.

Don't harm others unless you need to. A lot of murders are essentially about revenge - but don't just let people walk all over you either, since you could end up killed for fun.

That woman who is seemingly incredibly sexually attracted to you for no reason? Um, you could be walking into a robbery, think about it before you start following her around like a puppy.

And I'm sure I could come up with more, if I thought about it. But here's the interesting part - if you compare what I wrote, to what many women say about avoiding rape, there are quite a few similar bits of advise.

ETA: stay in school, get a job. Back when I was growing up, it was popular to say that kids like me would probably be in jail or dead by the time we were 25 years old. So, simply studying was a part of avoiding being involved in murder.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Everyone, I have a confession to make. I'm a misogyinist. I'm sorry.

 

[Archimedes]

Everyone, I have a confession to make. I'm a misogyinist. I'm sorry.

You disgust me.

 

[gmbteach]

I stay where there are people.

If I am alone, and walking, I will generally get on the phone to someone, explain that I am alone and feeling nervous and where I am. That way, I know that help will be on its way if needed.

Lastly, I would have to say my ultimate method to not murder is that I left the ex!

 

[Rhea]

I keep an eye out for people walking alone in town, i there are other people who may be following oddly. If I'm in my car and see someone who is at risk, I slow down, so the car is visible to followers.

Sounds like the start of a driveby to me.

We don't have drivebys here. But we do have people who walk off drunk or high only to be found dead later. Or kids who walk off and are never found at all.

I call the cops when I see something suspicious, like a person with a bike hanging out by the side of the road last summer (very unusual here).

What's suspicious about that?

I'd be pretty annoyed if some random person called the cops on me just for standing around somewhere.

It's situational. No one EVER hangs out at the side of the road here, EVER. The only bikes we ever see are commuters or nylon-clad racers getting fit. None of these stop and sit on the guard rail EVER. So seeing someone not dressed as either of these, stopping by the side of the road in the middle of nowhere to "hang out" is highly suspicious.

I pull the drapes during meetings to prevent people from targeting anyone from the outside.

That seems... paranoid.

It was requested by the insurance company as a measure to reduce workplace violence. Of which there has been a history. The place where I work has a big huge libertarian/2nd amendment target drawn all over it.

When I see kids and teens walking alone where they aren't safe, I slow down, maybe even circle around to make sure they get home.

Hang on, hang on. When you see kids by themselves, you circle around them? That's... kind of creepy!

Again, situational. When a kid is by herself or himself here it may be a loooong walk through nowhere. It costs me nothing to pause and go by twice to make sure they are safe.

I take keys from drunks.

Isn't that theft?

ha ha. No.

 

[Kharakov]

In rural Pennsylvania or Ohio, you listen for the <clop,clop...clop,clop> of horses if you don't want to get whacked by the Amish.

Needless to say, I feel like I could have made a disparaging comment about the Amish on this message board without worrying about a hit squad.

 

[Valjean]

What to do about murder?
Well, there's nothing to be done for the victim, but the perpetrator must be either fixed or sequestered from society.
Imprisonment's expensive. Best to figure out what's wrong with him or her and correct it -- psych testing, PET scans, &c.

 

[dystopian]

It's situational. No one EVER hangs out at the side of the road here, EVER. The only bikes we ever see are commuters or nylon-clad racers getting fit. None of these stop and sit on the guard rail EVER. So seeing someone not dressed as either of these, stopping by the side of the road in the middle of nowhere to "hang out" is highly suspicious.

This attitude honestly deeply disturbs me. There's nothing suspicious whatsoever about someone sitting on a guard rail; no indication of wrongdoing whatsoever other than that their appearance doesn't fit within your normal experience, but you call the cops on them anyway? That smacks to me of the same kind of mentality that leads rich people to call the cops the minute they see someone sporting a hoodie in their neighborhood; there's no cause to do that and it reveals a disturbing paranoid mentality that leads to discrimination. People shouldn't have the cops called on them just because they stick out. I've seen first hand the kind of damage that mentality can do.

Again, situational. When a kid is by herself or himself here it may be a loooong walk through nowhere. It costs me nothing to pause and go by twice to make sure they are safe.

And what's to stop someone from calling the cops on *you* for your suspicious behavior? That was my point.

ha ha. No.

Uhm, yes, actually it is. Even if you know the person and they laugh it off the next morning; it *is* technically theft.

 

[Togo]

I take a few preacuations in rough areas.

-Don't wear black in rough areas of town - visibilty is safety, and dark clothing makes you look more threatening
-Don't walk with a girl who belongs to different ethnicity. If necessary, get a few paces behind her so it doesn't look like you're together
-Don't let a friend walk home alone, drunk or not
-Avoid the pubs and nightclubs for the half or so after they close
-Ignore verbal taunts. The people you need to worry about aren't the ones speaking, they're the ones watching
-Don't approach occupied parked cars in parking lots, parks, or other unobserved areas.
-When queuing at a street van, don't stand with your back to the sidewalk
-Never carry a credible weapon, or anything that looks like one. An umbrella is fine, a screwdriver or flashlight in the pocket is not.
-Don't wear scarves in the street
-Don't run when people are watching
-Never walk between people on the sidewalk.

 

[TV and credit cards]

In rural Pennsylvania or Ohio, you listen for the <clop,clop...clop,clop> of horses if you don't want to get whacked by the Amish.

The <clop,clop...clop,clop> breaking the stillness of the night is one thing, it's when the clopping stops you need to worry.



We need to integrate psychopathology testing with the NSA's database of on line activity and DHS's pre-crime facial recognition software. In this all pre-teen and pre-adult students will have a psychopathology test to work off of as a baseline for their likelihood of committing murder. Integrating this with the individual's on line activity and facial recognition software (monitoring of which will be greatly expanded) will create a composite chart of nearly every person in the country. At a certain level where an individual is deemed highly likely to commit murder, a crime prevention ankle bracelet (use your imagination, less we go with mine) can be required by the court. Now, of course, none of this would happen until a high degree of confidence is established in the system. This would undoubtedly go to the Supreme Court as we would be preventing crime before the act but not before the fact. We would be redefining (or adding a new definition to) the word fact.

Like the man said, safety and freedom are not exclusive. We can enjoy both. He never told you how, did he?

For now it would make an excellent Minority Report II we can all watch in complete naivete.

 

[Archimedes]

-Never carry a credible weapon, or anything that looks like one. An umbrella is fine, a screwdriver or flashlight in the pocket is not.

I carry a flashlight in my coat pocket all the time. I walk at night in the dark regularly so it's useful to have a flashlight so that I can be seen by traffic (that and the local streetlight situation isn't great so there are a few areas which are pretty much pitch black at night and you risk walking into a wall if you don't have illumination). I didn't realise that carrying a flashlight in my pocket put me at risk of being murdered.

-Don't wear scarves in the street

Wearing a scarf in the street puts you at risk of being murdered?

 

[Archimedes]

It's situational. No one EVER hangs out at the side of the road here, EVER. The only bikes we ever see are commuters or nylon-clad racers getting fit. None of these stop and sit on the guard rail EVER. So seeing someone not dressed as either of these, stopping by the side of the road in the middle of nowhere to "hang out" is highly suspicious.

This is weird. Is there any sort of causal link with people with bicycles sitting on guard rails and murder?

If it NEVER happens EVER, then why do you think you're doing something about preventing murder when you do see it happen?

 

[TV and credit cards]

I carry a flashlight in my coat pocket all the time. I walk at night in the dark regularly so it's useful to have a flashlight so that I can be seen by traffic (that and the local streetlight situation isn't great so there are a few areas which are pretty much pitch black at night and you risk walking into a wall if you don't have illumination). I didn't realise that carrying a flashlight in my pocket put me at risk of being murdered.

A camping headlamp keeps both hands free and ready for battle, public urination, etc.

 

[Archimedes]

I carry a flashlight in my coat pocket all the time. I walk at night in the dark regularly so it's useful to have a flashlight so that I can be seen by traffic (that and the local streetlight situation isn't great so there are a few areas which are pretty much pitch black at night and you risk walking into a wall if you don't have illumination). I didn't realise that carrying a flashlight in my pocket put me at risk of being murdered.

A camping headlamp keeps both hands free and ready for battle, public urination, etc.

When I go for a walk in the evening, requiring a hands-free light to illuminate the area while I battle people to prevent myself from being murdered or such a sudden urge to piss such that I can't put away a flashlight or use one hand, are not really priorities for me. Maybe that's just me though.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I carry a flashlight in my coat pocket all the time. I walk at night in the dark regularly so it's useful to have a flashlight so that I can be seen by traffic (that and the local streetlight situation isn't great so there are a few areas which are pretty much pitch black at night and you risk walking into a wall if you don't have illumination). I didn't realise that carrying a flashlight in my pocket put me at risk of being murdered.

A camping headlamp keeps both hands free and ready for battle, public urination, etc.

When I go for a walk in the evening, requiring a hands-free light to illuminate the area while I battle people to prevent myself from being murdered or such a sudden urge to piss such that I can't put away a flashlight or use one hand, are not really priorities for me. Maybe that's just me though.

Also, while I don't want to start blaming the victim, if you're walking down the street with a flashlight attached to your forehead, you're pretty much asking people to come over and murder you.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I carry a flashlight in my coat pocket all the time. I walk at night in the dark regularly so it's useful to have a flashlight so that I can be seen by traffic (that and the local streetlight situation isn't great so there are a few areas which are pretty much pitch black at night and you risk walking into a wall if you don't have illumination). I didn't realise that carrying a flashlight in my pocket put me at risk of being murdered.

A camping headlamp keeps both hands free and ready for battle, public urination, etc.

When I go for a walk in the evening, requiring a hands-free light to illuminate the area while I battle people to prevent myself from being murdered or such a sudden urge to piss such that I can't put away a flashlight or use one hand, are not really priorities for me. Maybe that's just me though.

It's damn convenient though. Your assailant is squinting at the light while you're going to town on him in full view.
Go try and take a piss one handed. Unbuckle (optional), loose the top button, unzip,... zip, button, buckle. Go on Archimedes.

Plenty of country folk use headlamps, mechanics, plumbers. Hell, I used them and sometimes bifocal safety glasses with LEDs to do electrical work. We've really moved on from holding the flashlight.
Granted, I expanded the use of the camping headlamp some years ago during loss of power drills in the navy but I know it's been catching on elsewhere.

- - - Updated - - -

I carry a flashlight in my coat pocket all the time. I walk at night in the dark regularly so it's useful to have a flashlight so that I can be seen by traffic (that and the local streetlight situation isn't great so there are a few areas which are pretty much pitch black at night and you risk walking into a wall if you don't have illumination). I didn't realise that carrying a flashlight in my pocket put me at risk of being murdered.

A camping headlamp keeps both hands free and ready for battle, public urination, etc.

When I go for a walk in the evening, requiring a hands-free light to illuminate the area while I battle people to prevent myself from being murdered or such a sudden urge to piss such that I can't put away a flashlight or use one hand, are not really priorities for me. Maybe that's just me though.

Also, while I don't want to start blaming the victim, if you're walking down the street with a flashlight attached to your forehead, you're pretty much asking people to come over and murder you.

I thought Cleveland was bad.

 

[ksen]

I once walked in on a room full of guys getting ready to gang murder some guy. I just gave them a stern look and they all sheepishly left the room.

If you do any less you are a terrible person.

 

[Rhea]

This attitude honestly deeply disturbs me. There's nothing suspicious whatsoever about someone sitting on a guard rail; no indication of wrongdoing whatsoever other than that their appearance doesn't fit within your normal experience, but you call the cops on them anyway? That smacks to me of the same kind of mentality that leads rich people to call the cops the minute they see someone sporting a hoodie in their neighborhood; there's no cause to do that and it reveals a disturbing paranoid mentality that leads to discrimination. People shouldn't have the cops called on them just because they stick out. I've seen first hand the kind of damage that mentality can do.

This is weird. Is there any sort of causal link with people with bicycles sitting on guard rails and murder?

If it NEVER happens EVER, then why do you think you're doing something about preventing murder when you do see it happen?

It turns out there is something suspicious about sitting on a guardrail. It's very different from someone wearing a hoodie in a neighborhood. There is literally NOTHING to be here for. Zero. We have some neighbors who walk around the block (it's several miles) but there is no reason for anyone not a neighbor to be here. We are not on the way from anywhere or to anywhere. We are miles and miles from anywhere.

The only reason a person not from here to hang out here is to commit crimes. The most common crime is trash dumping. Which is incredibly annoying and happens far too often. We in the neighborhood try to take down tag numbers to report it. No one wants a refrigerator or sofa or mattress at the roadside. But a guy on a bike is unlikely to be dumping appliances over the ravine.

The next most common would be a theft or setting up a meth lab - casing a house. They look for unoccupied hunting cabins or houses where people are on vacation and they break in and set up a meth lab.

People who run meth labs are pretty well known for not being safe individuals.

So, yeah. Somebody scruffy looking sitting on a ratty bicycle on a road in the middle of nowhere staring at a hunting cabin is gonna be a call to the cops. It does take them 30-60 minutes to get here, usually, but I will report it - and let the neighbors know, so that it can reduce the possibility of a violent crime.

Again, situational. When a kid is by herself or himself here it may be a loooong walk through nowhere. It costs me nothing to pause and go by twice to make sure they are safe.

And what's to stop someone from calling the cops on *you* for your suspicious behavior? That was my point.

Nothing. But the kid will have had someone watching out for them. Plus it takes cops a while to respond.

ha ha. No.

Uhm, yes, actually it is. Even if you know the person and they laugh it off the next morning; it *is* technically theft.

And not a judge in the county will convict me of it. Probably not a cop in the county will arrest me for it. And the drunk stays off the road.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I once walked in on a room full of guys getting ready to gang murder some guy. I just gave them a stern look and they all sheepishly left the room.

If you do any less you are a terrible person.

Stern looks don't always work. I tried that once and they didn't leave, so I just up and killed the person they were about to murder.

That was a group of men who didn't have as much fun that night as they'd wanted to. They learned a valuable lesson about why one should not ignore stern looks.

 

[dystopian]

It turns out there is something suspicious about sitting on a guardrail. It's very different from someone wearing a hoodie in a neighborhood. There is literally NOTHING to be here for. Zero.

If there's no reason to be there, then it is literally impossible for their presence there to be suspicious. Besides, there 'not being a reason' for someone to be somewhere, is *not* a reason to be suspicious of them (much less call the cops on them). For all you know, their vehicle broke down and they're just hanging out there waiting for a repair truck to come along or a friend to pick them up. Maybe they're just taking a break from a long drive and decided they need some air. Are either of these valid reasons for you to call the cops on them? No. Do you in fact have *any* valid reason to call the cops on them? No, you don't. Unless there's an indication of actual wrongdoing, present or imminent, there's no reason whatsoever to call the cops; and doing so is some really bad paranoid profiling.

We have some neighbors who walk around the block (it's several miles) but there is no reason for anyone not a neighbor to be here. We are not on the way from anywhere or to anywhere. We are miles and miles from anywhere.

Oh I get it, you and your neighbors are the only people who have the right to just exist and hang out within your exclusive zone, right? You can't think of a legitimate reason why that person might be there, so they have to be doing or planning bad shit. This is *exactly* the same kind of reasoning the rich white dude uses to call the cops on the black guy in a hoodie walking down the block. "There's no reason for anyone who doesn't live here to be walking down the street; he clearly doesn't look like he belongs, so he must be up to no good."; it's bullshit reasoning and you ought to know better.

The next most common would be a theft or setting up a meth lab - casing a house. They look for unoccupied hunting cabins or houses where people are on vacation and they break in and set up a meth lab.

Right, of course. 'See someone you don't recognize in the neighborhood -> deduce that they must be there either to throw thrash in your proverbial backyard, looking to rob you, or searching for a place to set up a methlab'...

...go on, tell me again how you're not exactly like the rich white dude calling the cops on the black guy in the hoodie.

People who run meth labs are pretty well known for not being safe individuals.

And if they actually *were* unsafe individuals, there'd be a hell of a lot more random explosions on the news. Given the inherent dangers involved with mixing meth in quantity, and given that meth is in ample supply, I'm pretty sure that the people who set up meth-labs are actually a lot more safety oriented than you give them credit for.

Nothing. But the kid will have had someone watching out for them. Plus it takes cops a while to respond.

If I were to call the cops on you for doing that, I'd be wasting their fucking time. Just like how 9 out of 10 times, if it isn't 10 out of 10 times, so do your calls.

I remember a few years back, there was this old man who lived in the neighborhood, and who'd walk around like he was drunk all the time. But he was completely harmless. One day, he was just hanging out near a local park that also happened to be frequented by kids. Then some overzealous paranoid housewife, taking style points from you, called the cops on him. He didn't harm anyone, he didn't talk to anyone, he didn't bother anyone. But he was suspicious! He was scary! He was going to hurt the kids! You know what the cops learned that day? Neurological afflictions can make a grown man's gait and walk appear like that of a drunk person, and being profiled as a drunk pedophile just because you've sustained a brain injury and decided to enjoy a day in the park is really traumatic. So I have to ask whoever made that call, was it worth it? Was it worth all those calls to the cops over the years, complaining of this suspicious person and that creepy old guy, never once resulting in the cops actually finding anyone doing something wrong but people being treated unjustly nonetheless? Because I sure don't. All that person making the call had to do was go and talk to the guy, and they'd have learned he was a threat to absolutely no one.

The moral of the story? What you *think* is suspicious, and what actually *is*, are two very different things.

And not a judge in the county will convict me of it. Probably not a cop in the county will arrest me for it. And the drunk stays off the road.

How wonderful it must be to live in a country where all the cops and judges flaunt the laws they're supposed to uphold. Look, if you take the key from a drunk friend so they don't drive, great. No problem with that. To a stranger, not so much.