Bernie Supporte - Thinking about voting for Trump

[Elixir]

Yup. Why?
Because if $hillary is elected she'll be a one-term wonder and the backlash will put the republitards back in power for a long time. If Trump is elected, the backlash will favor whoever inherits Bernie's platform.

My only hesitation is the supreme court justice thing... who knows what kind of scumbag buddy of the Donald he might put up? Of course the same goes for Clinton - I don't trust her one bit to nominate someone who will overturn Citizens United or resurrect The Glass-Steagall Act.

I'm open to persuasion, so someone please persuade me.

 

[cycomiko]

The hope is that Bernie won't give up and will be at the convention to pull the party platform to the left. Then if the #BernieOrBust people can stay engaged and turn the congress Democrat in a few years, then you can really get something done. If Trump gets elected that all goes out the window.

I'm no Hillary fan either but a Trump presidency would more disastrous than another Clinton term. Plus, Bill in a pink dress giving a tour of the White House?! Sign me up for that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yup. Why?
Because if $hillary is elected she'll be a one-term wonder and the backlash will put the republitards back in power for a long time. If Trump is elected, the backlash will favor whoever inherits Bernie's platform.

Let's look at 2000 and see how this is exactly how the Democrats shifted hard to the left after Nader played "spoiler", in order to appease the left-wing.

Well... that didn't actually happen, I suppose.

So no reason to think history won't repeat itself.

My only hesitation is the supreme court justice thing... who knows what kind of scumbag buddy of the Donald he might put up?

We already have seen the list. It'd be more Alitos.

Of course the same goes for Clinton - I don't trust her one bit to nominate someone who will overturn Citizens United or resurrect The Glass-Steagall Act.

You do realize the consequences of overturning a Supreme Court case so quickly, right? As much as I hate Citizens United, overturning SCOTUS cases is something that should rarely be done as fucking with precedence is very dangerous.

Want to eviscerate what is left of the Voting Rights Act? Want a Supreme Court that looks the other way and says 'as long as the bill doesn't expressly ban abortion, it is constitutional, doesn't matter if abortion is effectively banned'? Want a Supreme Court that will say Corporations have even more human rights?

I'm open to persuasion, so someone please persuade me.

A vote for Nader led to the Democrats moving to the right, NOT the left. A vote for Trump will not move the Democrats any further to the left. A vote for Trump is a vote for the W Admin booting back up. Making the US Government even more insolvent.

Clinton perfect? No. Clinton terrible, absolutely not! She will not drive America off the cliff. Trump has shown no restraint or ability to have any diplomatic skill required to be President. Voting for him is reckless. He'll be more at the whim of his "advisors" than W was, and we saw how well that turned out.

 

[Horatio Parker]

My only hesitation is the supreme court justice thing... who knows what kind of scumbag buddy of the Donald he might put up?

You can check them out, he's released a list:

Donald Trump’s Terrific List of Fabulous Judges

http://www.cato.org/blog/donald-trumps-terrific-list-fabulous-judges

 

[Malintent]

I'm voting for Trump because my morbid curiosity of the outcome is greater than my interest in supporting a prosperous future for America. I'm old and childless. Nothing personal against any of you specifically, but fuck your snot-nosed millennial kids.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Yup. Why?
Because if $hillary is elected she'll be a one-term wonder and the backlash will put the republitards back in power for a long time. If Trump is elected, the backlash will favor whoever inherits Bernie's platform.

Trump does come across as less of a corporate shill than Hillary, and that is really saying something given who Trump is.

That Hillary hasn't tried to reconcile her party and appeal to Bernie voters, and instead went back to Wall Street and tried to win over Bush supporters... says a lot.

I'm voting for Trump because my morbid curiosity of the outcome is greater than my interest in supporting a prosperous future for America. I'm old and childless. Nothing personal against any of you specifically, but fuck your snot-nosed millennial kids.

As a Canadian, I am looking forward to building that giant wall on the US border to keep those Americans away from our universal health care system, and making Trump pay for it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yup. Why?
Because if $hillary is elected she'll be a one-term wonder and the backlash will put the republitards back in power for a long time. If Trump is elected, the backlash will favor whoever inherits Bernie's platform.

Trump does come across as less of a corporate shill than Hillary, and that is really saying something given who Trump is.

Here is the funny part. People are saying that Hillary will concede too much to the Corporate heads... hence vote for Trump... who is a Corporate Head!

That Hillary hasn't tried to reconcile her party and appeal to Bernie voters,

Hillary Clinton has already shifted regarding minimum wage increase, a proposal for lowering age requirement for Medicare to 50.

...and instead went back to Wall Street and tried to win over Bush supporters... says a lot.

You aren't paying too much attention.

It seems that people want to remove corporate influence in Washington by putting corporate in charge in Washington. How in the world does that make any sense?!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Clinton will be a two-term President. This has nothing to do with her performance as a President - I personally think that she'll be competent and effective in the job, but that's not relevant to the point I'm making. The fiery crash of the GOP isn't going to be limited to this election mainly because all of the positions of authority within the party are being voted on right now during the primaries as well and they're going to Trump supporters, so it's not like things are going to improve for them and they'll still be a basket case in 2020 and the incumbent Clinton will slap down whatever sacrificial lamb they bother to run. Demographics are trending the Democrats way right now and that will only get better and the GOP won't be doing anything over the next few years to improve their situation. Your country is going to be having a string of Democratic Presidents for the next little while.

In terms of whom she'll nominate to the Supreme Court, there are three choices - Clinton negotiating with Sanders and Warren in a Democratic Senate, Clinton negotiating with a GOP Senate or Trump negotiating with a GOP Senate (there isn't a plausible situation where Trump would get enough votes to win and the Dems would also get enough votes to retake the Senate). The first one is the best case scenario for a Sanders' supporter and something that is very doable if they come out and vote this time around. Even if Clinton doesn't want a particularly liberal judge, there will be a small enough Dem majority that a Sanders-led revolt amongst the more liberal members of it in reaction to her nominating someone unacceptable to him could peel away five or six votes (the GOP will vote against her nominee no matter who it is) and tank the nomination. Clinton knows this and would be hamstrung in her selections as a result.

Playing the long game and hoping for a Clinton presidency tanking and then ... somehow having any position you give the slightest rat's ass about manage to improve before you die of old age is a game you'd lose. Clinton isn't your first choice, but she's the only choice you have where you'd get anything. Another decision is just shooting yourself in the foot in order to make a point that nobody will either care about or listen to and the people you hate the most will laugh at you for shooting yourself.

 

[Rhea]

Trump does come across as less of a corporate shill than Hillary, and that is really saying something given who Trump is.

He comes across as nothing but a corporate shill in my experience. Starting with his attempts at eminent domain and going on to his corporate bankruptcies - borrow money and stiff your partner.

I feel his past shows that he is 100% pure in caring only about extreme wealth.

Whereas Hillary Clinton got out of college and worked for the Children's Defense Fund.

I'm very surprised by those who claim she is 100% corporate shill. Her past shows something very different. Donald's past? 100% and without interruption corporate shill.

That Hillary hasn't tried to reconcile her party and appeal to Bernie voters, and instead went back to Wall Street and tried to win over Bush supporters... says a lot.

And again, I believe that she has done this already. She has not called for Sanders to quit - has in fact instructed her surrogates not to say this, either. I see that as explicitly working to keep the party together (where "party" includes all of those Sanders supporters who just signed on to the party this year).


Noting for the record: I do not think Sanders "should" quit. I do not think Sanders supporters "should" vote in the primary for Clinton. I only think that *IF* Clinton wins the nomination, the best results for those who say they espouse Sanders ideals is to vote Dem in the General and get out as many folks as you can to do likewise. Especially state and congressional races.

In fact, I would say, if you won't vote for Clinton, AT LEAST get out and vote blue for congressional and state races. Don't fail in this.

 

[Rhea]

Clinton will be a two-term President. This has nothing to do with her performance as a President - I personally think that she'll be competent and effective in the job, but that's not relevant to the point I'm making. The fiery crash of the GOP isn't going to be limited to this election mainly because all of the positions of authority within the party are being voted on right now during the primaries as well and they're going to Trump supporters, so it's not like things are going to improve for them and they'll still be a basket case in 2020 and the incumbent Clinton will slap down whatever sacrificial lamb they bother to run. Demographics are trending the Democrats way right now and that will only get better and the GOP won't be doing anything over the next few years to improve their situation. Your country is going to be having a string of Democratic Presidents for the next little while.

In terms of whom she'll nominate to the Supreme Court, there are three choices - Clinton negotiating with Sanders and Warren in a Democratic Senate, Clinton negotiating with a GOP Senate or Trump negotiating with a GOP Senate (there isn't a plausible situation where Trump would get enough votes to win and the Dems would also get enough votes to retake the Senate). The first one is the best case scenario for a Sanders' supporter and something that is very doable if they come out and vote this time around. Even if Clinton doesn't want a particularly liberal judge, there will be a small enough Dem majority that a Sanders-led revolt amongst the more liberal members of it in reaction to her nominating someone unacceptable to him could peel away five or six votes (the GOP will vote against her nominee no matter who it is) and tank the nomination. Clinton knows this and would be hamstrung in her selections as a result.

Playing the long game and hoping for a Clinton presidency tanking and then ... somehow having any position you give the slightest rat's ass about manage to improve before you die of old age is a game you'd lose. Clinton isn't your first choice, but she's the only choice you have where you'd get anything. Another decision is just shooting yourself in the foot in order to make a point that nobody will either care about or listen to and the people you hate the most will laugh at you for shooting yourself.

Just all of this.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Just all of this.

Also, I don't think that there are many in the way of Sanders' supporters who are really considering voting for Trump. They're just in the anger or bargaining stage of grief over his campaign at the moment. They'll move onto acceptance before November. At that point, they can choose to turn Sanders into a serious power broker who can influence policy or they can choose to doom him to retiring in irrelevance and then maybe catch him at a speech at a local coffee shop a few years from now complaining about how the reason that nothing they cared about ever got implemented was the fault of everybody except them.

 

[Jayjay]

What if Clinton picks Bernie as her vice president? Would you vote for her then?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What if Clinton picks Bernie as her vice president? Would you vote for her then?

She won't make Sanders the VP nominee. Too old and doesn't add anything to the ticket required to appeal to the undecided voters who are easily swayed with arguments like 'death panels'.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What if Clinton picks Bernie as her vice president? Would you vote for her then?

She won't make Sanders the VP nominee. Too old and doesn't add anything to the ticket required to appeal to the undecided voters who are easily swayed with arguments like 'death panels'.

Also, I don't think he'd take it. He would be far better off being a power broker in the Senate as a leader of the Dems' left wing bloc than he would be by taking a position which is entirely dependent upon whatever power and authority Clinton decides to give him and which she can take away at her convenience.

Clinton's VP selection will be based on analyzing micro-targeted polling data in various swing states. She'll count on Warren to bring all the Sanders people out to the polls.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What if Clinton picks Bernie as her vice president? Would you vote for her then?

Not going to happen. But she may name Elizabeth Warren VP... and that could have some sway. It would actually be a very good tactic for her. It would also mean misogynist Trump against two women... which would be an interesting race to watch.

 

[Rhea]

Also, I don't think that there are many in the way of Sanders' supporters who are really considering voting for Trump.

This may be true. And for those, I'm in the process of deciding to not make any comments on the Dem nomination until it is over. I think it's certain to go to Clinton. They think not. Any discussion seems to cause them to think I'm telling them how to vote in the primary, or telling them Sanders should quit.

So I think I may stop talking about it until we can talk actually about whoever is the Dem nominee v. Trump. Because some folks can't seem to have that talk hypothetically and it seems to anger them when anyone attempts it.

At that point, they can choose to turn Sanders into a serious power broker who can influence policy or they can choose to doom him to retiring in irrelevance and then maybe catch him at a speech at a local coffee shop a few years from now

If they are wise. I like a lot of his policies and a UNIFIED dem party would adopt many of them.

complaining about how the reason that nothing they cared about ever got implemented was the fault of everybody except them.

This part might not change.

- - - Updated - - -

she may name Elizabeth Warren VP... and that could have some sway. It would actually be a very good tactic for her. It would also mean misogynist Trump against two women... which would be an interesting race to watch.

Most of us do NOT want to lose Warren from the Senate. We want her there for decades.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Trump does come across as less of a corporate shill than Hillary, and that is really saying something given who Trump is.

Of course, he isn't a corporate shill. He employs corporate shills. They sometimes sound exactly like him.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Yup. Why?
Because if $hillary is elected she'll be a one-term wonder and the backlash will put the republitards back in power for a long time. If Trump is elected, the backlash will favor whoever inherits Bernie's platform.

Bernie is in the process of pouring gasoline on his platform and setting it on fire. He seems more and more to be a bitter old man, than someone who wants to accomplish something.

I'm having a hard time visualizing how much damage Trump could cause to this country in four years, and I have absolutely no interest in finding out the hard way.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Just all of this.

Also, I don't think that there are many in the way of Sanders' supporters who are really considering voting for Trump. They're just in the anger or bargaining stage of grief over his campaign at the moment. They'll move onto acceptance before November. At that point, they can choose to turn Sanders into a serious power broker who can influence policy or they can choose to doom him to retiring in irrelevance and then maybe catch him at a speech at a local coffee shop a few years from now complaining about how the reason that nothing they cared about ever got implemented was the fault of everybody except them.

Much of this depends on Sanders himself. The early signs are discouraging. After June 7, it'll be obvious to everyone that he has no chance. Then we'll see.

 

[KeepTalking]

Yup. Why?
Because if $hillary is elected she'll be a one-term wonder and the backlash will put the republitards back in power for a long time. If Trump is elected, the backlash will favor whoever inherits Bernie's platform.

Incorrect. Hillary will not be a one term president. The Republicans have nothing and no one to offer up now who will defeat her, they couldn't do it to Obama in his second term, despite putting everything they had into it, and they won't be able to do it four years from now. Their party is in disarray, and that is the entire reason Trump is the presumptive nominee. If Trump is elected, before we can even get to the backlash, we will have to endure an administration that will cause us to look back fondly on the W years. We will also likely have to endure multiple far right wing SCOTUS picks, with very little chance of there being any SCOTUS seats up for grabs in the next presidential term. If that's what you're looking forward to, by all means vote Trump.

My only hesitation is the supreme court justice thing... who knows what kind of scumbag buddy of the Donald he might put up? Of course the same goes for Clinton - I don't trust her one bit to nominate someone who will overturn Citizens United or resurrect The Glass-Steagall Act.

You can trust her to not nominate far right wing justices, quite the opposite of Trump. Citizen's United is a done deal, and SCOTUS has no power to resurrect Glass-Steagall. The remedy to both of those lies in the legislature, and a Trump win guarantees a Republican Senate.

I'm open to persuasion, so someone please persuade me.

I'm a Bernie supporter. I donated to his campaign, I voted for him in the primary, and I encouraged others to vote for him in the primary. If it comes down to Trump v. Hillary (which it likely will), I will vote for Hillary. Voting for Trump is not an option that I would ever consider. If you think Hillary is a corporate shill, well, I got news for you, Trump is a corporate exec. Why on earth would you vote for someone who lives and breathes the corporate world over someone you perceive to be a corporate shill because she made money giving speeches to corporations? It makes no sense at all.