Presidential vapor in Hiroshima....

[Tristan Scott]

Horatio- I'm on the road now and only have my phone- it wasn't a link, I cited Sadao Asada's book in which he used the actual accounts from the Japanese war counsel, the so called Big Six. The name of the book is "The Shock of the Atomic Bomb and Japan's decision to Surrender: A Reconsideration."

 

[Horatio Parker]

Horatio- I'm on the road now and only have my phone- it wasn't a link, I cited Sadao Asada's book in which he used the actual accounts from the Japanese war counsel, the so called Big Six. The name of the book is "The Shock of the Atomic Bomb and Japan's decision to Surrender: A Reconsideration."

Thanks.

 

[untermensche]

Was the US bad for all the atrocities it committed in the Philippines to turn it into an obedient colony?

Was it bad for genocide in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos?

Has it ever done anything wrong?

Oh, that's right. In addition to your willful ignorance of Japan's well-documented war crimes, you also think Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos are all just hapless victims of US imperialism, and didn't do anything wrong on their own.

But why stop there? You're on a roll!

Please tell me how the millions who died in China under Mao were all actually killed by the evil US imperialists, and how North Korea's mad murderous regime is actually a just and kind society wrongfully blamed for US-implemented genocide.

What do Chinese and North Korean crimes have to do with US genocide in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos? What did they have to do with US crimes in the Philippines to turn that nation into a US colony?

You are so desperate to cover your eyes and look away from facts you by some strange twist of the mind start talking about China and North Korea.

It is beyond a fallacy. It is deliberate ignorance.

 

[arkirk]

Dropping an atom bomb on men women and children is the biggest crime a person is capable of...excepting perhaps dropping a Hydrogen bomb on them. The indiscriminate killing of large numbers of human beings is murder. No matter what bad people have ensconced themselves amid the population of some country, the killing of innocents is NEVER ACCEPTABLE. This country, with the help of corporate media, Madison Avenue, and the war machine has managed to torque the collective morality of our nation so completely we can now accept this sort of thing without blinking, so long as we don't have to look at it. People who talk about the "necessity" of murder generally eventually commit murder. It is really quite the same as suicide. It takes a mind that has been over-stressed and has become inured to the meaning of the things they do. It is a kind of national depression, our country suffers from, but I will add, it has not happened without some people designing it for their own selfish gains. That is what Hitler did. That is really about the same as Truman or General LeMay or so many of our leaders today. They have lost their humanity, and place some materialistic goal at the top of their agenda and are willing to sacrifice virtually the rest of the people for that.

The decision to kill your fellow man is something that happens always in times that are depressing. There is no exception...rob the liquor store and kill the attendant, or drop a bomb. Think on that a bit. Obama runs an assassination ring in our behalf...oh boy! Now that is depressing!

 

[Bronzeage]

Dropping an atom bomb on men women and children is the biggest crime a person is capable of...excepting perhaps dropping a Hydrogen bomb on them. The indiscriminate killing of large numbers of human beings is murder. No matter what bad people have ensconced themselves amid the population of some country, the killing of innocents is NEVER ACCEPTABLE. This country, with the help of corporate media, Madison Avenue, and the war machine has managed to torque the collective morality of our nation so completely we can now accept this sort of thing without blinking, so long as we don't have to look at it. People who talk about the "necessity" of murder generally eventually commit murder. It is really quite the same as suicide. It takes a mind that has been over-stressed and has become inured to the meaning of the things they do. It is a kind of national depression, our country suffers from, but I will add, it has not happened without some people designing it for their own selfish gains. That is what Hitler did. That is really about the same as Truman or General LeMay or so many of our leaders today. They have lost their humanity, and place some materialistic goal at the top of their agenda and are willing to sacrifice virtually the rest of the people for that.

The decision to kill your fellow man is something that happens always in times that are depressing. There is no exception...rob the liquor store and kill the attendant, or drop a bomb. Think on that a bit. Obama runs an assassination ring in our behalf...oh boy! Now that is depressing!

It's a nasty job, but it's the job we gave him.

 

[untermensche]

Dropping an atom bomb on men women and children is the biggest crime a person is capable of...excepting perhaps dropping a Hydrogen bomb on them. The indiscriminate killing of large numbers of human beings is murder. No matter what bad people have ensconced themselves amid the population of some country, the killing of innocents is NEVER ACCEPTABLE. This country, with the help of corporate media, Madison Avenue, and the war machine has managed to torque the collective morality of our nation so completely we can now accept this sort of thing without blinking, so long as we don't have to look at it. People who talk about the "necessity" of murder generally eventually commit murder. It is really quite the same as suicide. It takes a mind that has been over-stressed and has become inured to the meaning of the things they do. It is a kind of national depression, our country suffers from, but I will add, it has not happened without some people designing it for their own selfish gains. That is what Hitler did. That is really about the same as Truman or General LeMay or so many of our leaders today. They have lost their humanity, and place some materialistic goal at the top of their agenda and are willing to sacrifice virtually the rest of the people for that.

The decision to kill your fellow man is something that happens always in times that are depressing. There is no exception...rob the liquor store and kill the attendant, or drop a bomb. Think on that a bit. Obama runs an assassination ring in our behalf...oh boy! Now that is depressing!

It's a nasty job, but it's the job we gave him.

He was given the power.

It is a job of his own choosing.

He is not forced in any way to do it.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's a nasty job, but it's the job we gave him.

He was given the power.

It is a job of his own choosing.

He is not forced in any way to do it.

It would be nice if a President could honor his oath of office without causing death to anyone who didn't absolutely need to be killed, but that's not the world where we live.

Declaring him to be morally deficient because he did the job he was hired to do is not realistic.

 

[Ford]

Oh, that's right. In addition to your willful ignorance of Japan's well-documented war crimes, you also think Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos are all just hapless victims of US imperialism, and didn't do anything wrong on their own.

But why stop there? You're on a roll!

Please tell me how the millions who died in China under Mao were all actually killed by the evil US imperialists, and how North Korea's mad murderous regime is actually a just and kind society wrongfully blamed for US-implemented genocide.

What do Chinese and North Korean crimes have to do with US genocide in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos? What did they have to do with US crimes in the Philippines to turn that nation into a US colony?

You are so desperate to cover your eyes and look away from facts you by some strange twist of the mind start talking about China and North Korea.

It is beyond a fallacy. It is deliberate ignorance.

Deliberate ignorance? That's quite a charge coming from you! You who refuse to even admit that any nation in the general vicinity of Southeast Asia EVER did anything wrong. You who blame every death in the region on the US, and seem stuck on stupid with this fantasy that Japan was a peaceful nation that never harmed a single soul.

Of course you're not engaging in deliberate ignorance, really. You know damned well that the Japanese committed horrible atrocities in China. And Korea. That their expansion was brutal. That they occupied the Philippines, which lead to the death of over a million Filipinos, 130,000 of them in 72 separate war crimes.

Then of course there was the Japanese occupation of Korea. And Vietnam. Indonesia where tens of thousands died under the heel of the Japanese boot. Their reign of terror in Singapore where they massacred tens of thousands. And who could forget the Rape of Nanking?

You are aware of this all, but you hand wave it away and pretend it didn't happen because you're too busy trying to make the US seem like the only nation who ever did anything bad in Southeast Asia. You're not engaging in deliberate ignorance. You're just flat out full of shit.

 

[untermensche]

What do Chinese and North Korean crimes have to do with US genocide in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos? What did they have to do with US crimes in the Philippines to turn that nation into a US colony?

You are so desperate to cover your eyes and look away from facts you by some strange twist of the mind start talking about China and North Korea.

It is beyond a fallacy. It is deliberate ignorance.

Deliberate ignorance? That's quite a charge coming from you! You who refuse to even admit that any nation in the general vicinity of Southeast Asia EVER did anything wrong. You who blame every death in the region on the US, and seem stuck on stupid with this fantasy that Japan was a peaceful nation that never harmed a single soul.

What I said was the Japanese carried out atrocities in China. Somehow you missed this. What I said was the Japanese behavior in China demonstrated some kind of pathology since it was far more than necessary. Somehow you missed this. I said the Japanese were a violent expansionist nation. Somehow you missed this.

All you seem to notice are my factual statements about US crimes and atrocities.

But you do not acknowledge them or think they mean anything.

 

[untermensche]

He was given the power.

It is a job of his own choosing.

He is not forced in any way to do it.

It would be nice if a President could honor his oath of office without causing death to anyone who didn't absolutely need to be killed, but that's not the world where we live.

Declaring him to be morally deficient because he did the job he was hired to do is not realistic.

He did not have to kill anybody.

It is absurd to think that once you become president you are forced to kill people.

The world is not made less violent through US violence. It is made more violent.

 

[Ford]

What I said was the Japanese carried out atrocities in China. Somehow you missed this. What I said was the Japanese behavior in China demonstrated some kind of pathology since it was far more than necessary. Somehow you missed this. I said the Japanese were a violent expansionist nation. Somehow you missed this.

I missed these things you claim to have said because - at least in this thread - you did not say any of them.

Back around page 10 you said:

Japan was an imperial nation. No different from the US. No better. No worse.

Subsequently you indicated that Japan did things in its own interest, was expansionist, and told me to:

fuck off

But you never once mentioned Japanese atrocities. I've read the entire thread. You didn't say a word about any of the many documented war crimes and/or massacres that happened while Japan was occupying China, Korea, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc. etc. etc.


If you're going to flat-out lie, at least read your own bullshit so it contains a modicum of consistency.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Dropping an atom bomb on men women and children is the biggest crime a person is capable of...excepting perhaps dropping a Hydrogen bomb on them. The indiscriminate killing of large numbers of human beings is murder. No matter what bad people have ensconced themselves amid the population of some country, the killing of innocents is NEVER ACCEPTABLE. This country, with the help of corporate media, Madison Avenue, and the war machine has managed to torque the collective morality of our nation so completely we can now accept this sort of thing without blinking, so long as we don't have to look at it. People who talk about the "necessity" of murder generally eventually commit murder. It is really quite the same as suicide. It takes a mind that has been over-stressed and has become inured to the meaning of the things they do. It is a kind of national depression, our country suffers from, but I will add, it has not happened without some people designing it for their own selfish gains. That is what Hitler did. That is really about the same as Truman or General LeMay or so many of our leaders today. They have lost their humanity, and place some materialistic goal at the top of their agenda and are willing to sacrifice virtually the rest of the people for that.

The decision to kill your fellow man is something that happens always in times that are depressing. There is no exception...rob the liquor store and kill the attendant, or drop a bomb. Think on that a bit. Obama runs an assassination ring in our behalf...oh boy! Now that is depressing!

Unfortunately the Japanese peace attempts were somewhat ignored where peace talks could have prevented a lot of deaths from both sides. Since then the dropping of the A bomb has been justified as beneficial for mankind.

 

[whichphilosophy]

He was given the power.

It is a job of his own choosing.

He is not forced in any way to do it.

It would be nice if a President could honor his oath of office without causing death to anyone who didn't absolutely need to be killed, but that's not the world where we live.

Declaring him to be morally deficient because he did the job he was hired to do is not realistic.

If the president did his job properly peace talks could have convened months before and saved a lot of lives including prisoners held in Nagasaki.

 

[Tristan Scott]

So, whichphilosophy, saying the same shit for the thirtieth time does not make it any more true than it was the first time.

 

[untermensche]

I missed these things you claim to have said because - at least in this thread - you did not say any of them.

Back around page 10 you said:

Japan was an imperial nation. No different from the US. No better. No worse.

Subsequently you indicated that Japan did things in its own interest, was expansionist, and told me to:

fuck off

But you never once mentioned Japanese atrocities. I've read the entire thread. You didn't say a word about any of the many documented war crimes and/or massacres that happened while Japan was occupying China, Korea, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc. etc. etc.


If you're going to flat-out lie, at least read your own bullshit so it contains a modicum of consistency.

Post #66

If the US was so opposed to atrocities why did it carry out one of the worst atrocities in history in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos?

Here I am talking about what the Japanese did in China and calling it "atrocities".

Post #138

I'm making the logical conclusion that atrocities are not what drive US policy since the US gladly carries out it own atrocities as soon as it has the power to do so.

Once again I refer to the actions of Japan as atrocities.

Post #175

That was entirely a Japanese pathology and crime.

Here I describe what the Japanese did in China as a pathology and crime.

And of course Post # 92

Japan was an imperial nation. No different from the US. No better. No worse.

You even quote me but then you simply ignore the quote and talk about me saying something to you in some unrelated context. That is a dishonest argument.

You were told to fuck off because you were demanding I say the Japanese attack was unjustified when I never once said it was justified. You were told to fuck off because you were acting like some petty Joseph McCarthy and demanding I prove my innocence without any evidence of guilt.

Who exactly is lying here?

 

[Ford]

Who exactly is lying here?

Thank you for hoisting yourself by your own petard.

 

[untermensche]

Who exactly is lying here?

Thank you for hoisting yourself by your own petard.

You call me a liar and I prove it is you who has lied.

But it has no effect.

Like talking to a tree.

 

[Ford]

Thank you for hoisting yourself by your own petard.

You call me a liar and I prove it is you who has lied.

But it has no effect.

Like talking to a tree.

Are you going to tell me to fuck off again?

 

[untermensche]

You call me a liar and I prove it is you who has lied.

But it has no effect.

Like talking to a tree.

Are you going to tell me to fuck off again?

If you demand I prove myself innocent without a shred of guilt.

I'll do it when you deserve it.

 

[Ford]

Are you going to tell me to fuck off again?

If you demand I prove myself innocent without a shred of guilt.

I'll do it when you deserve it.

I demand you speak out against Japanese atrocities in WWII. Be specific. Don't hold back.